spin king Posted 20 hours ago Report Share Posted 20 hours ago 16 minutes ago, Roger Jacobs said: What a load of twaddle! Doyle is one of the most loyal non-Brits to British Speedway. It's not his fault the fixture has been rearranged and it coincides with a commitment he's contracted to elsewhere. It's a rock-and-a-hard-place for the Witches, who have managed to find guests for both missing riders. Totally correct Doyle has been a mainstay and totally loyal to speedway in the UK, that is fact. I also applaud Ipswich to agreeing to quick arrangement getting this fixture sorted before the Play Offs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted 18 hours ago Report Share Posted 18 hours ago 2 hours ago, Hawk127 said: If correct, they cannot be bothered with a suitable replacement this sums up why the average punter cannot be bothered to regularly attend meetings. Sad to say that riders pick which paymaster calls the tune and ultimately not the club owners. The riders no longer consider the punters who wish to see a winning team unless it is Polish club and many of these throttle jockeys fail to represent the UK that they ride for and as to representing the town, no chance. It is no longer in a riders DNA to be honest with the fans/supporters. It use to be a tribal type of following given the number of tracks representing on many occasions rural or non cosmopolitan populations and this was evidenced by the number of travelling supporters back in the day. You use to have local riders who were migrating from grass track and other disciplines to speedway, now nothing can be further from reality. You cannot solely blame the riders but a lot of anger should be directed at the sports masters who treat the punter with such disrespect. The riders want to make a living at all costs and the powers that be have no balls to stand up to other market forces so GB followers can go to hell and put up with what is on offer. And the winner of this weeks most stupid post goes to….. Doyle has been the most loyal overseas rider to British speedway over the last 10-15 years This meeting could only be rearranged for Wednesday when he has a contractual agreement ……. You may or may not be aware this meeting has to be staged before the cut off leaving not many nights when it could be run If this was rained off mid season it would 100% be rerun on a convenient Monday or Thursday with 2 fill teams barring injuries. Ipswich have moved fast to secure 2 guests both of whom go well at Sheffield 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted 10 hours ago Report Share Posted 10 hours ago A legacy of the Tigers having three meetings to cram in... It isn't a good look for the sport is it that, once again, we have another self inflicted guestfest when a 12 match home season starts in April...? The guest system simply makes it far too easy to run the sport poorly given its a basic "get out of jail free" card to be played.... The bottom line is, once again, a meeting has been planned in knowing riders are elsewhere, and can be replaced by your rivals employees, with the only clear message it sends out being... "It isn't really that important this competition is it?"... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted 10 hours ago Report Share Posted 10 hours ago 33 minutes ago, mikebv said: A legacy of the Tigers having three meetings to cram in... It isn't a good look for the sport is it that, once again, we have another self inflicted guestfest when a 12 match home season starts in April...? The guest system simply makes it far too easy to run the sport poorly given its a basic "get out of jail free" card to be played.... The bottom line is, once again, a meeting has been planned in knowing riders are elsewhere, and can be replaced by your rivals employees, with the only clear message it sends out being... "It isn't really that important this competition is it?"... ... and you pay your £25 entrance, £4 programme and £3 parking last week to watch former World Champion Jason Doyle perform and this week you get a 6 point rider from Ippo's bitter rivals! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellevueace Posted 10 hours ago Report Share Posted 10 hours ago 24 minutes ago, mikebv said: A legacy of the Tigers having three meetings to cram in... It isn't a good look for the sport is it that, once again, we have another self inflicted guestfest when a 12 match home season starts in April...? The guest system simply makes it far too easy to run the sport poorly given its a basic "get out of jail free" card to be played.... The bottom line is, once again, a meeting has been planned in knowing riders are elsewhere, and can be replaced by your rivals employees, with the only clear message it sends out being... "It isn't really that important this competition is it?"... The guest rider rule has always been part of speedway, yes its not an ideal system when riders turn up in in opposing colours and its a difficult one to explain to newbies, but really without it how would a club be able to replace their number one rider especially through injury? Theres really only R/R would that really be an adequate cover scoring the points of the top man? Sometimes it does work out. I think the only realistic way is to have a squad system which the sport cant afford, years ago we would see say Ivan Mauger missing a meeting to be replaced by Ronnie Moore, it does seem to be more an issue with fans today, if Jack Holder for whatever reason misses the play off matches and didnt bring a guest in tigers fans surely wouldnt be happy? I think its just a necessary evil in the sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries Posted 9 hours ago Report Share Posted 9 hours ago (edited) 1 hour ago, mikebv said: A legacy of the Tigers having three meetings to cram in... It isn't a good look for the sport is it that, once again, we have another self inflicted guestfest when a 12 match home season starts in April...? The guest system simply makes it far too easy to run the sport poorly given its a basic "get out of jail free" card to be played.... The bottom line is, once again, a meeting has been planned in knowing riders are elsewhere, and can be replaced by your rivals employees, with the only clear message it sends out being... "It isn't really that important this competition is it?"... You’re talking a load of nonsense here as usual. It’s simply unlucky that Sheffield’s final planned fixture got postponed leaving very little time to get the fixture in before the play offs. What happens if it rains on Thursday and the return fixture is postponed as well with the play offs starting next Monday? Would you then criticise Ipswich for not fulfilling their fixtures as well? There’ll be even less time to run it before Monday and in all likelihood, wouldn’t be run. Yes, they probably need to plan the fixture list in future, so that there’s a two to three week gap between teams’ last programmed league fixture, and the start of the play offs to leave time to fit in postponed fixtures. But you, or anybody else, didn’t question the fixture list when it was released at the start of the year. It was just unfortunate that a last fixture fell victim to the weather. Everybody knows how difficult it is for promoters to compile fixture lists when availability of riders is a nightmare with 90% of the team riding here there and everywhere. It’s inevitable that sometimes fixtures will get run when teams are missing a rider or two. Edited 9 hours ago by Aries 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted 9 hours ago Report Share Posted 9 hours ago 9 minutes ago, Aries said: You’re talking a load of nonsense here as usual. It’s simply unlucky that Sheffield’s final planned fixture got postponed leaving very little time to get the fixture in before the play offs. What happens if it rains on Thursday and the return fixture is postponed as well with the play offs starting next Monday? There’ll be even less time to run it before Monday and in all likelihood, wouldn’t be run. Yes, they probably need to plan the fixture list in future, so that there’s a two to three week gap between teams’ last programmed league fixture, and the start of the play offs to leave time to fit in postponed fixtures. But you, or anybody else, didn’t question the fixture list when it was released at the start of the year. It was just unfortunate that a last fixture fell victim to the weather. Everybody knows how difficult it is for promoters to compile fixture lists when availability of riders is a nightmare with 90% of the team riding here there and everywhere. It’s inevitable that sometimes fixtures will get run when teams are missing a rider or two. Then just accept the competition will always be devalued.... Not a great selling point to media, sponsors or fans is it?... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted 9 hours ago Report Share Posted 9 hours ago 36 minutes ago, IainB said: ... and you pay your £25 entrance, £4 programme and £3 parking last week to watch former World Champion Jason Doyle perform and this week you get a 6 point rider from Ippo's bitter rivals! With the answer being from some on here.... "Well, that's just the way it is!"...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted 9 hours ago Report Share Posted 9 hours ago (edited) 28 minutes ago, Aries said: 49 minutes ago, bellevueace said: The guest rider rule has always been part of speedway, yes its not an ideal system when riders turn up in in opposing colours and its a difficult one to explain to newbies, but really without it how would a club be able to replace their number one rider especially through injury? Theres really only R/R would that really be an adequate cover scoring the points of the top man? Sometimes it does work out. I think the only realistic way is to have a squad system which the sport cant afford, years ago we would see say Ivan Mauger missing a meeting to be replaced by Ronnie Moore, it does seem to be more an issue with fans today, if Jack Holder for whatever reason misses the play off matches and didnt bring a guest in tigers fans surely wouldnt be happy? I think its just a necessary evil in the sport. Then no one can ever wonder why the sport isn't taken seriously by the mainstream media... The same would happen in Poland if they ever adopted the UK system.. This has resulted in massively one sided finals when teams have injuries... However, in "proper sports" injuries are seen as part and parcel of what happens and some get lucky and some don't... Poland realise a one sided final still has integrity and will maintain the credibility of their competition .. Thus, keeping media, sponsors and fans engaged... Also, if Sheffield are missing Jack Holder then the next two in the averages should be able to take all his rides, they could do this, and their own rides, and still do Ht 15, if the manager wanted it that way... Many guests get used due to the RR system not being fit for purpose... Edited 9 hours ago by mikebv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellevueace Posted 8 hours ago Report Share Posted 8 hours ago 8 minutes ago, mikebv said: Then no one can ever wonder why the sport isn't taken seriously by the mainstream media... The same would happen in Poland if they ever adopted the UK system.. This has resulted in massively one sided finals when teams have injuries... However, in "proper sports" injuries are seen as part and parcel of what happens and some get lucky and some don't... Poland realise a one sided final still has integrity and will maintain the credibility of their competition .. Thus, keeping media, sponsors and fans engaged... Also, if Sheffield are missing Jack Holder then the next two in the averages should be able to take all his rides, they could do this, and their own rides, and still do Ht 15, if the manager wanted it that way... Many guests get used due to the RR system not being fit for purpose... Im not arguing the fact but it was taken seriously by the mainstream media during the golden eras, becoming the number two spectator sport, nowadays it has become a big issue with the fanbase, i agree its not ideal, perhaps your suggestion would be better. Wasnt it last season when a play off meeting was getting pelters in Poland for a woefully understrength side being put out do to injuries? I dont really follow the sport over there but im sure there was some mention of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluPanther Posted 8 hours ago Report Share Posted 8 hours ago What a meeting Thursday could have been, a fifteen heat shootout for the league title. Instead, we go into play-offs that could see a team that finished mid-table, win the title... 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted 7 hours ago Report Share Posted 7 hours ago 1 hour ago, mikebv said: Then just accept the competition will always be devalued.... Not a great selling point to media, sponsors or fans is it?... I feel it’s more devalued when a team bring in a top rider like let’s say Robert Lambert who openly criticises British speedway , for a few end of season meetings to win a league….. injuries happen and that’s what guests are for 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted 7 hours ago Report Share Posted 7 hours ago 1 hour ago, mikebv said: Then no one can ever wonder why the sport isn't taken seriously by the mainstream media... The same would happen in Poland if they ever adopted the UK system.. This has resulted in massively one sided finals when teams have injuries... However, in "proper sports" injuries are seen as part and parcel of what happens and some get lucky and some don't... Poland realise a one sided final still has integrity and will maintain the credibility of their competition .. Thus, keeping media, sponsors and fans engaged... Also, if Sheffield are missing Jack Holder then the next two in the averages should be able to take all his rides, they could do this, and their own rides, and still do Ht 15, if the manager wanted it that way... Many guests get used due to the RR system not being fit for purpose... if Sheffield are missing Jack Holder through injury then Sheffield have a guest up to his average … why is that an issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badge Posted 7 hours ago Report Share Posted 7 hours ago I'll put this here as this is being discussed admittedly over Jason but.... H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 valve Posted 7 hours ago Report Share Posted 7 hours ago (edited) 1 hour ago, BluPanther said: What a meeting Thursday could have been, a fifteen heat shootout for the league title. Instead, we go into play-offs that could see a team that finished mid-table, win the title... For that to have been a possibility then Tigers will need to have finished 2nd (at least) in the regular season whereas there is a favorable chance they will finish third behind Leicester. whatever the case, I presume you are thinking play offs should be scrapped in favour of the team who finished top of the league at the end of the regular season, risk being declared champions by losing in a one off tie (over two legs) v the team who finished second? Edited 7 hours ago by 1 valve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluPanther Posted 6 hours ago Report Share Posted 6 hours ago 9 minutes ago, 1 valve said: For that to have been a possibility then Tigers will need to have finished 2nd (at least) in the regular season whereas there is a favorable chance they will finish third behind Leicester. whatever the case, I presume you are thinking play offs should be scrapped in favour of the team who finished top of the league at the end of the regular season, risk being declared champions by losing in a one off tie (over two legs) v the team who finished second? I have never been in favour of the playoffs... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted 6 hours ago Report Share Posted 6 hours ago Belle Vue can sort their fixtures in time for the play offs and we have a busier schedule than most. The desire needs to be there. I did mention at the start of the season that Belle Vue are always the first to get to 75% of fixtures thus reducing our window for potential injury replacements. Any club that cannot fulfill its fixtures in an appropriate manner a week or two before the play offs needs to give their head a wobble. Guests have always been around but not with the regularity of these days. In the most famous KO Cup final which we won after THAT run off, we had Jim McMillan guest for Chris Pusey. Guests can no longer be described as a necessary evil as there was a perfectly fine rule in place in 2022 whereby you could quite rightly replace an injured rider at any point of the season. This rule was dropped in favour of guests (or the less than effective RR). This guest move has been actively applauded by many on here following the 2022 season when the rule was correctly applied to both Peterborough & Belle Vue. Never been a fan of the play offs and I’m still yet to see the full 30 heats of any since its introduction, such is my apathy towards them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesB Posted 6 hours ago Report Share Posted 6 hours ago 54 minutes ago, Badge said: I'll put this here as this is being discussed admittedly over Jason but.... H Does British speedway not have priority over Swedish speedway on a Monday/Thursday? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted 6 hours ago Report Share Posted 6 hours ago (edited) 2 hours ago, bellevueace said: Im not arguing the fact but it was taken seriously by the mainstream media during the golden eras, becoming the number two spectator sport, nowadays it has become a big issue with the fanbase, i agree its not ideal, perhaps your suggestion would be better. Wasnt it last season when a play off meeting was getting pelters in Poland for a woefully understrength side being put out do to injuries? I dont really follow the sport over there but im sure there was some mention of it. The golden era was very much led by World Of Sport having an English Golden Generation on the International stage with which to sell the domestic sport... Winning Team World Cups often, and having PC riding like he did so regularly, was a perfect advert for the sport... And in the pre internet days you mainly found out riders were missing only when you entered the stadium, so "too late" to decide whether it was worth visiting or not... That "necessary evil" has now unfortunately morphed into a fundamental part of the operating model.. I have seen on here mention of giving out one point each for a meeting called off, (ianb?), and many dismissed this idea.. However, if last Thursdays meeting had been declared a draw (like cricket would have), I wonder if llosing several grand in payments may have been "very influential" in their decision to ride or not...? And also, focus promoters on protecting their tracks and preparing them better...? Edited 6 hours ago by mikebv 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted 6 hours ago Report Share Posted 6 hours ago 22 minutes ago, JamesB said: Does British speedway not have priority over Swedish speedway on a Monday/Thursday? Would the fact we still don't know the teams riding in the play offs penalise that priority? Sweden can obviously name the teams scheduled... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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