mikebv Posted Friday at 06:07 PM Report Share Posted Friday at 06:07 PM 1 minute ago, 1 valve said: So what would “a total reset” entail presuming no TV deal of any significance? A blank canvas. And build it from there, using all the experience gained from what hasn't worked.... Bottom line is barely 25,000 pay to watch each week, with literally millions of people living within 45 mins from tracks... Suggesting what has been done, (over the past two decades in particular), clearly hasn't worked... So... Try something different... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 valve Posted Friday at 06:14 PM Report Share Posted Friday at 06:14 PM 4 minutes ago, mikebv said: A blank canvas. And build it from there, using all the experience gained from what hasn't worked.... Bottom line is barely 25,000 pay to watch each week, with literally millions of people living within 45 mins from tracks... Suggesting what has been done, (over the past two decades in particular), clearly hasn't worked... So... Try something different... So, starting with a “blank canvass”what would you suggest would be “something different” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 valve Posted Friday at 06:16 PM Report Share Posted Friday at 06:16 PM 4 minutes ago, mikebv said: A blank canvas. And build it from there, using all the experience gained from what hasn't worked.... Bottom line is barely 25,000 pay to watch each week, with literally millions of people living within 45 mins from tracks... Suggesting what has been done, (over the past two decades in particular), clearly hasn't worked... So... Try something different... So, starting with a “blank canvass”what would you suggest would be “something different” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted Friday at 06:26 PM Report Share Posted Friday at 06:26 PM Just now, 1 valve said: So, starting with a “blank canvass”what would you suggest would be “something different” Some of the many possibilities have been on here ad infinitum.... And its a lengthy random list... Would they work? Who knows? However, given the current challenge facing the sport, it is crystal clear that the current operating model and business plan doesn't... Mark Lemon in the Speedway Star pretty much outlines what they haven't done well, and the opportunities that exist, yet you do have to ask, why has it taken so long to spot when the fans could point the inherent flaws out time and time again... Let's hope those who have got the sport in the UK to where it currently sits, can move it forward... Doing the "same old/same old", once again though, wont deliver it, given the past many years of evidence available.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littleze Posted Friday at 06:27 PM Report Share Posted Friday at 06:27 PM 20 minutes ago, mikebv said: Due to the current operating model, they both need each other, to help subsidise one another.... For me, it is time for brutal honesty and that brutal reality is that the GP stars and the likes of Emil, Chris Holder, Magic and Tai (if not injured), will have taken between them all, circa seven figures in combined salaries... Paid for in the main by the TV money and a significant number of well meaning sponsors putting in high five figure numbers.. Those seven figures would have been far better used as prize money for winning the top tier... Shared amongst the seven teams last year... "A Million Pound Premiership" would have given those who run the sport something to "sell" to bigger, more well known, potential sponsors, advertisers and mainstream media.... The "top stars" were almost "heralded" as being vital for the growth of the sport in the UK, as they would "bring crowds back"... The reality was they were "heralded" by pretty much the same number of fans who were always going to attend anyway, and didn't nationally after the initial novelty wore off, increase crowds across the country, to make these "truly high quality riders", anywhere near even "cost neutral", never mind "profitable", as the vast majority of those potential circa 80 million potential pundits in the nation have (still), not even heard of Speedway, never mind any of the riders who "came back"... For me, we are at ground zero and the sport should "start again"... And not miss (once again), that opportunity... Let's face it, if you were launching a brand new sport this Monday, and someone suggested, at the planning stage, using the current UK Speedway operating model, they would be laughed out of the room... The promoters are well meaning enthusiasts rather than tough pragmatists, and the sport desperately needs, (and has needed them for years), cold, hard, tough pragmatists, that let their heads rule in decison making, not their emotions.... We all would love to watch the world's best each week, and rub shoulders with them in the pits, taking selfies.. The bottom line is though that their combined costs dont, (currently) make economic sense... If the AGM is delayed you can only hope it is because negotiations are still taking place about a TV deal, (as that will be fundamental), however, let's be honest, every TV Company over the past decade, has dropped the sport, so its "stock" may not be running that high... Surely time therefore for a total, well planned, reset and relaunch in the new year... A few steps back to move, hopefully, forward over the next few years.. . Using whatever operating model, and standard of riders, that it can afford to bring growth...... A million pound prize fund is hardly big news in any modern sport, so personally I’d disagree that you can sell more off the back of it. It wouldn’t suddenly make the sport credible, or more attractive imo. Until you sort out the basic rules, and infrastructure it doesn’t move forward. If the powers that be can’t sell a sport that suits modern audiences (concentration levels low) with powerful bikes, with no brakes, suggesting danger, a team sport too. A million pound bounty won’t disguise that stadiums are dire and crowd levels are poor. I’d have a squad of riders, no points limit (but I guess that’s not feasible for all sorts of reasons, unless you go to 5 person teams?) Could you run regular double meetings on one day, utilising the squad? Thus getting 30 heats and fixtures fulfilled (weather depending) but I suppose costs would scupper that too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinker Posted Friday at 06:28 PM Report Share Posted Friday at 06:28 PM If the AGM has indeed been postponed then one would assume the powers that be will announce this fact pdq. There may be some sensitive pieces of information that they can't release at the present time but wouldn't it make a change for once if they attempted to keep fans in the loop as much as possible. Come clean for once and say it how it is instead of constantly staying in the shadows. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
castrolargh Posted Friday at 06:31 PM Report Share Posted Friday at 06:31 PM Its the die hard fans that want to see the " big names" ,they won't attract any new supporters If only the die hards could accept that the racing can be really bloody good no matter what the level of racing is, so long as the riders are evenly matched, then british speedway stands a chance.if only The " its only a £ 10 sport if its nl level " brigade would accept that good close racing in a meeting is better value for money than " world no3 is half a lap in front but he's a big star" then things could be different .Yes , in an ideal world there would be a 10 team premiership with teams built to polish extra league standard, but its just not going to happen 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted Friday at 06:35 PM Report Share Posted Friday at 06:35 PM It did make me smile when I read Alex harkess in the speedway star saying why does an amateur sport like ice hockey get 3 times the crowd that a professional sport like speedway gets ? Describing speedway as a professional sport 😂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted Friday at 06:42 PM Report Share Posted Friday at 06:42 PM (edited) 1 hour ago, TTT said: No imo. If the PREM collapses then the CHAMP collapses too and clubs like Glasgow and Poole will have to open the cheque book anyway because current CHAMP HL's as well as British League D/UP's will demand much more money to cover a loss of income. It's a benefit to everyone for British Speedway to have 2 Main Tiers but 2 Main Tiers is only possible if powerhouse clubs are willing to put the Sport first instead of themselves. Unfortunately clubs don't operate like that over here, Hopefully one day they will but the Sport as a whole hasn't come first at an AGM in years. While I can't agree with your premise that the CL would collapse without the PL and I don't think that Glasgow or Poole should be forced up... I do think that if we had promotion and relegation like proper sports do then these things would sort themselves out. 56 minutes ago, mikebv said: "A Million Pound Premiership" would have given those who run the sport something to "sell" to bigger, more well known, potential sponsors, advertisers and mainstream media.... Is Allen Stanford out of prison yet? 43 minutes ago, cowboy cookie returns? said: I keep seeing it written that the TV deal is vital. I remember reading that the Eurosport TV deal was only peanuts at best. In some circles it seemed that they covered the transmission costs & very little else. The TNT dealer was the final 2 years of the Eurosport dealer following the take over. Unless I am missing something the last TV wasn’t putting a great deal in the coffers. The last TV deal was peanuts in terms of TV deals but was a lifeline to our sport. From what I've been told it was worth about £100k each year to PL clubs which covered the costs of their No 1's Edited Friday at 06:43 PM by IainB 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted Friday at 06:45 PM Report Share Posted Friday at 06:45 PM 16 minutes ago, mikebv said: Some of the many possibilities have been on here ad infinitum.... And its a lengthy random list... Would they work? Who knows? However, given the current challenge facing the sport, it is crystal clear that the current operating model and business plan doesn't... Mark Lemon in the Speedway Star pretty much outlines what they haven't done well, and the opportunities that exist, yet you do have to ask, why has it taken so long to spot when the fans could point the inherent flaws out time and time again... Let's hope those who have got the sport in the UK to where it currently sits, can move it forward... Doing the "same old/same old", once again though, wont deliver it, given the past many years of evidence available.. Unfortunately it's been proven time and time again that there is nobody within the sport currently who has the required skill set for the great reset or surely it would have been done already... and it seems that it is further proven by their current struggle to retain the business as usual model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted Friday at 06:50 PM Report Share Posted Friday at 06:50 PM 3 minutes ago, IainB said: Unfortunately it's been proven time and time again that there is nobody within the sport currently who has the required skill set for the great reset or surely it would have been done already... and it seems that it is further proven by their current struggle to retain the business as usual model. I think what we seeing now is the result of years of neglect finally coming to a head, I do feel abit for the bspl for the current situation that we find ourselves in but then I think this is of our own making 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted Friday at 06:56 PM Report Share Posted Friday at 06:56 PM No disrespect to Francis gusts but him getting bikes,a van and mechanic provided by Oxford just about sums up everything wrong with the finances of British speedway 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboy cookie returns? Posted Friday at 07:04 PM Report Share Posted Friday at 07:04 PM I keep seeing it written that the TV deal is vital. I remember reading that the Eurosport TV deal was only peanuts at best. In some circles it seemed that they covered the transmission costs & very little else. The TNT dealer was the final 2 years of the Eurosport dealer following the take over. Unless I am missing something the last TV wasn’t putting a great deal in the coffers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeOldPitGate Posted Friday at 07:20 PM Report Share Posted Friday at 07:20 PM 23 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said: No disrespect to Francis gusts but him getting bikes,a van and mechanic provided by Oxford just about sums up everything wrong with the finances of British speedway Out of interest Dean did he get to keep the bikes and van or did they go back to the club at the end of the season ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therefused Posted Friday at 07:24 PM Report Share Posted Friday at 07:24 PM 1 hour ago, 1 valve said: So, starting with a “blank canvass”what would you suggest would be “something different” I know there are flaws with every model but I would do something like the below. One big league with 6 man teams, number 6 must be British under 19, another must be British under 21 10% average reduction on British riders under the age of 24 5% average reduction on British riders over the age of 24 Both of the should encourage signing British riders, as well as potentially reducing costs and attracting more riders to give speedway a go helping the talent pool over the next few years. I’d also be tempted to offer 5% off riders staying at the same team to encourage teams to sign the same riders every year and encourage some form of loyalty between riders and teams/fans. British final over three rounds. KO cup and league only, no play offs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShanoXtra Posted Friday at 07:32 PM Report Share Posted Friday at 07:32 PM (edited) 51 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said: No disrespect to Francis gusts but him getting bikes,a van and mechanic provided by Oxford just about sums up everything wrong with the finances of British speedway Well that’s exactly the same as Parnitskyi for Leszno who got everything given to him because he is from Ukraine so what’s the problem with Britain doing it? Edited Friday at 07:48 PM by ShanoXtra . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted Friday at 07:35 PM Report Share Posted Friday at 07:35 PM 2 minutes ago, ShanoXtra said: Well that’s exactly the same as Parnicki for Leszno who got everything given to him because he is from Ukraine so what’s the problem with Britain doing it? We can't afford it 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShanoXtra Posted Friday at 07:37 PM Report Share Posted Friday at 07:37 PM Just now, IainB said: We can't afford it But who said “we” can’t afford it? Everyone is guessing. Oxford clearly felt they could afford it whilst running three clubs so let them live or die by their decision, it’s not up to us to decide what companies can and can’t spend their money on… If there is one league, Ipswich have lost Danny king as he has signed for Plymouth next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted Friday at 07:51 PM Report Share Posted Friday at 07:51 PM 1 hour ago, mikebv said: A blank canvas. And build it from there, using all the experience gained from what hasn't worked.... Bottom line is barely 25,000 pay to watch each week, with literally millions of people living within 45 mins from tracks... Suggesting what has been done, (over the past two decades in particular), clearly hasn't worked... So... Try something different... I know I sound like a stuck record on this but I’ve asked before that everyone sells the sport to their close circle of friends and family and attempts to get JUST ONE to visit with them. Sharing your feedback on here when doing this will give us a clearer indication of the task in hand. If passionate fans cannot convince the people closest to them, who already trust and respect their opinions, to accompany them to a night at the speedway then any number of leaflets etc just won’t cut the mustard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PersonalResponsibility Posted Friday at 07:52 PM Report Share Posted Friday at 07:52 PM 3 hours ago, TTT said: No imo. If the PREM collapses then the CHAMP collapses too and clubs like Glasgow and Poole will have to open the cheque book anyway because current CHAMP HL's as well as British League D/UP's will demand much more money to cover a loss of income. It's a benefit to everyone for British Speedway to have 2 Main Tiers but 2 Main Tiers is only possible if powerhouse clubs are willing to put the Sport first instead of themselves. Unfortunately clubs don't operate like that over here, Hopefully one day they will but the Sport as a whole hasn't come first at an AGM in years. Shouldn't Ipswich have had this attitude when they spent 8 seasons (trying) to beat up second tier clubs because they couldn't hack the top flight? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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