CHAMPIONSHIP PLAY OFF FINAL - SCUNTHORPE v POOLE v SCUNTHORPE (2 & 7 October)

[SteveLyric2]

54 minutes ago, alang said:

It's ok. You'll only need 2/3 of a tin

We tend to make a big display of them all from over the years, so several tins are usually required.😇

[Starman2006]

23 hours ago, LisaColette said:

Ok. Maybe i need to be more clear.

1. SCB are saying front wheel over the line and rear wheel on the line is excluded.

2. Ref did it on basis of being over the line imo. Otherwise he would have excluded Zach. This is where interpretation is different. Maybe they should write things better so no misunderstanding.

3. Two other refs have apparently said they wouldn't have excluded Zach either.

4. Josh Pickering even David Howe DID NOT KNOW before superheat that rear wheel on the white line meant exclusion. (360 podcast).

5. Imo they only looked through rules because superheat went against them. If they won superheat, rules wouldn't have been looked at and nothing said or known. 

 

Absolutely , but your never going to please those on here. In fact most of them would have been hanging out the bunting had Poole lost, and Trackprat would have been on here every minute of the day   Those grapes must be getting very mouldy by now 🤣🤣😂😂

[False dawn]

1 hour ago, Starman2006 said:

Absolutely , but your never going to please those on here. In fact most of them would have been hanging out the bunting had Poole lost, and Trackprat would have been on here every minute of the day   Those grapes must be getting very mouldy by now 🤣🤣😂😂

I'll say a few things just to make my position crystal clear.....
1. I'm not a Poole fan. I've been a Bees fan for a lot of years and our conflicts have been "intense" to say the least. And don't get me onto Poole's track preparation. Its a joke.
2. I watched both legs of the final, supporting Scunthorpe, although they mean very little to me apart from their speedway abilities.
3. I was excited to see the second leg go to a Super Heat. I was particularly impressed by Josh Pickering's understanding of what it takes to win a race where coming first doesn't necessarily win you anything.
4. I saw Zach Cook take a "very tight line" when Josh Pickering let him take over the lead. Did he put both wheels where they shouldn't have been? The evidence (so far) is inconclusive. Yes, that's right, False dawn agrees with the referee and the speedway supporting population of Poole.
5. The SCB clearly said that Zach breached the rules.

My conclusion. The SCB ruled on something they didn't need to. They knew before their investigation that the result could not be changed so why do anything? And worse still, why muddy the waters by saying they are 100% certain the rules were breached. And worse still than that, why say the rules were breached without saying how they reached that decision. What evidence do they have that we haven't seen?
So, despite my history with Poole, my argument is not with Zach Cook, the club or anyone associated with them. The SCB have many questions to answer and their response to the controversy is silence. 
I am, first and foremost, a speedway fan. I deserve my sport to be managed better. 

[SteveLyric2]

46 minutes ago, False dawn said:

I'll say a few things just to make my position crystal clear.....
1. I'm not a Poole fan. I've been a Bees fan for a lot of years and our conflicts have been "intense" to say the least. And don't get me onto Poole's track preparation. Its a joke.
2. I watched both legs of the final, supporting Scunthorpe, although they mean very little to me apart from their speedway abilities.
3. I was excited to see the second leg go to a Super Heat. I was particularly impressed by Josh Pickering's understanding of what it takes to win a race where coming first doesn't necessarily win you anything.
4. I saw Zach Cook take a "very tight line" when Josh Pickering let him take over the lead. Did he put both wheels where they shouldn't have been? The evidence (so far) is inconclusive. Yes, that's right, False dawn agrees with the referee and the speedway supporting population of Poole.
5. The SCB clearly said that Zach breached the rules.

My conclusion. The SCB ruled on something they didn't need to. They knew before their investigation that the result could not be changed so why do anything? And worse still, why muddy the waters by saying they are 100% certain the rules were breached. And worse still than that, why say the rules were breached without saying how they reached that decision. What evidence do they have that we haven't seen?
So, despite my history with Poole, my argument is not with Zach Cook, the club or anyone associated with them. The SCB have many questions to answer and their response to the controversy is silence. 
I am, first and foremost, a speedway fan. I deserve my sport to be managed better. 

Apparently the SCB's Neil Vatcher is making a statement in this week's Speedway Star!

[False dawn]

35 minutes ago, SteveLyric2 said:

Apparently the SCB's Neil Vatcher is making a statement in this week's Speedway Star!

I'll stay up for my online issue!

[Wee Eck]

10 hours ago, SteveLyric2 said:

Apparently the SCB's Neil Vatcher is making a statement in this week's Speedway Star!

Find Riding Gear

 

I’ve just read it. Apparently everyone is now happy that the rule is that, if a rider’s wheels CROSS the white line, then that would normally lead to disqualification. And, despite multiple views from photographers and videographers, there is no evidence that Cook CROSSED the white line. Well, that’s everyone expect the BSPL chairman who is making up his own rule that even touching the line should lead to disqualification. Where has this man been? I’m sure many people, like me, have watched many slow motion replays where there’s been dust coming from a back wheel but zooming in has shown the tyre on the line not over it. Indeed, wasn’t that Darcy Ward’s favoured method of passing?

The Poole bashers have been out in force on this one but the Poole management, unlike too many others, have done the right thing by not adding fuel to this unnecessary fire. I am convinced that, had it been Josh Pickering not Zach Cook whose wheel had gone on to the line, nothing would have been said. 
The statement from Neil Vatcher declines to say who wrote the SCB comment which is disappointing - the SCB should have manned up on this, especially as they so quickly threw Paul Carrington under the proverbial bus. 
At the end of the day, Poole are worthy champions having out-ridden everyone all season and provided some exciting meetings on their travels. And Scunthorpe are unexpectedly for many, me included, runners up. It’s over, folks, so on to 2027.

[TigerIain]

8 hours ago, Wee Eck said:

I’ve just read it. Apparently everyone is now happy that the rule is that, if a rider’s wheels CROSS the white line, then that would normally lead to disqualification. And, despite multiple views from photographers and videographers, there is no evidence that Cook CROSSED the white line. Well, that’s everyone expect the BSPL chairman who is making up his own rule that even touching the line should lead to disqualification. Where has this man been? I’m sure many people, like me, have watched many slow motion replays where there’s been dust coming from a back wheel but zooming in has shown the tyre on the line not over it. Indeed, wasn’t that Darcy Ward’s favoured method of passing?

The Poole bashers have been out in force on this one but the Poole management, unlike too many others, have done the right thing by not adding fuel to this unnecessary fire. I am convinced that, had it been Josh Pickering not Zach Cook whose wheel had gone on to the line, nothing would have been said. 
The statement from Neil Vatcher declines to say who wrote the SCB comment which is disappointing - the SCB should have manned up on this, especially as they so quickly threw Paul Carrington under the proverbial bus. 
At the end of the day, Poole are worthy champions having out-ridden everyone all season and provided some exciting meetings on their travels. And Scunthorpe are unexpectedly for many, me included, runners up. It’s over, folks, so on to 2027.

You chose to not mention the bit where Cooks back wheel then throws up mud from the centre green.

It would still be debated if it was anyone else. 

And Poole 100% won the title with the help of a bad refereeing decision. Will Cairns was blatantly warming his back tyre and admitted that he had done so, so should have been excluded in that race.

Poole were the strongest team in the league but Scunthorpe should have been champions.

Edited 3 hours ago by TigerIain
Predictive text gone wrong

[Wee Eck]

1 hour ago, TigerIain said:

You chose to only the not where Cooks back wheel then throws up mud from the centre green.

It would still be debated if it was anyone else. 

And Poole 100% won the title with the help of a bad refereeing decision. Will Cairns was blatantly warming his back tyre and admitted that he had done so, so should have been excluded in that race.

Poole were the strongest team in the league but Scunthorpe should have been champions.

Join Leagues

 

I’m struggling to follow your first sentence but you think you are referenceing Cook’s back wheel throwing up mud from the centre green. Now, I’ll admit in all the photos and replays I’ve not seen that but even if I had, so what? A tyre can be touching both the white line and the track or centre green at the same time and so throw up both white and non white particles. Or, all white or all non white. That doesn’t prove whether or not the wheel crossed the inside of the white line. Note, crossed, not crossing. If I’m going from one side of a road to another and I have one foot on the road and one on the pavement, I’m crossing. If I have both feet on the pavement, I’ve crossed. 
Zach’s back wheel was certainly crossing and it certainly looks like that he could have had part of his rear tyre over the inner part of the white line, but I’ve seen nothing that says it crossed all the way over. 
As far as Cairns is concerned, it was up to the Scunthorpe personnel to contact the referee about it. It appears they didn’t and the referee didn’t see it. As no one from Scunthorpe objected at the time, it seems that Godfrey, Howe, the Clerk of the Course or anyone else from Scunthorpe saw it. Or bothered about it. 
But, going down the speculation route, if they had seen it and if Cairns had been excluded, where’s the guarantee that every subsequent heat, home and away would have gone as they did? Maybe the overall result at Scunthorpe would have been different but who’s to say that the result at Poole wouldn’t have changed? There are too many variables to make any statement other than over 31 heats Poole came out on top. 

[LisaColette]

1 hour ago, Wee Eck said:

I’m struggling to follow your first sentence but you think you are referenceing Cook’s back wheel throwing up mud from the centre green. Now, I’ll admit in all the photos and replays I’ve not seen that but even if I had, so what? A tyre can be touching both the white line and the track or centre green at the same time and so throw up both white and non white particles. Or, all white or all non white. That doesn’t prove whether or not the wheel crossed the inside of the white line. Note, crossed, not crossing. If I’m going from one side of a road to another and I have one foot on the road and one on the pavement, I’m crossing. If I have both feet on the pavement, I’ve crossed. 
Zach’s back wheel was certainly crossing and it certainly looks like that he could have had part of his rear tyre over the inner part of the white line, but I’ve seen nothing that says it crossed all the way over. 
As far as Cairns is concerned, it was up to the Scunthorpe personnel to contact the referee about it. It appears they didn’t and the referee didn’t see it. As no one from Scunthorpe objected at the time, it seems that Godfrey, Howe, the Clerk of the Course or anyone else from Scunthorpe saw it. Or bothered about it. 
But, going down the speculation route, if they had seen it and if Cairns had been excluded, where’s the guarantee that every subsequent heat, home and away would have gone as they did? Maybe the overall result at Scunthorpe would have been different but who’s to say that the result at Poole wouldn’t have changed? There are too many variables to make any statement other than over 31 heats Poole came out on top. 

Howe did complain about the warming of the tyres to the ref and later SCB. But because Scunthorpe can't prove that Will wouldn't have won from 15m back that is why nothing about that in the statement apparently. 

[Wardey]

1 hour ago, LisaColette said:

Howe did complain about the warming of the tyres to the ref and later SCB. But because Scunthorpe can't prove that Will wouldn't have won from 15m back that is why nothing about that in the statement apparently. 

On the subject or warming up tyres, surely the Start Marshall's should be calling that out to the Ref? When officiating any sport, you work as a team. ie Umpires in Cricket, Ref & Lina's in football etc.

[mikebv]

15 hours ago, SteveLyric2 said:

Apparently the SCB's Neil Vatcher is making a statement in this week's Speedway Star!

A JCB couldn't keep digging so far down...

A compounded load of tosh, on top of a load of tosh..

Embarrassingly out of their depth some people..

 

[Tim Templeton]

I trust that the SCB will provide the new evidence to Mr Carrington, that contravenes his decision.   I think "being thrown under a bus" sums up the situation as it currently stands.  Over to you SCB for your clarification.  

[SteveLyric2]

1 hour ago, Wardey said:

On the subject or warming up tyres, surely the Start Marshall's should be calling that out to the Ref? When officiating any sport, you work as a team. ie Umpires in Cricket, Ref & Lina's in football etc.

Yes, especially if the start marshalls are wearing radio headsets - which apparently they don't at  Scunthorpe!! ...or at other tracks?????

[crescent girl]

21 minutes ago, SteveLyric2 said:

Yes, especially if the start marshalls are wearing radio headsets - which apparently they don't at  Scunthorpe!! ...or at other tracks?????

Headset communication at Berwick for a few years now.......

[Wee Eck]

1 hour ago, crescent girl said:

Headset communication at Berwick for a few years now.......

And free parking!

[martinmauger]

Jumping in late as a neutral, I can fully understand why Scunny aren't happy, it if were Hull I'd be fuming.  I always thought the white line marked the very inside of the track, not part of it: a rider crossing it with both wheels is excluded.  Indeed I recall Ivan Mauger saying in his deadpan humour "track sizes & shapes never worried me, as far as I was concerned a track is a track: you have the white line on the left, the safety fence on the right & you ride on the bit in the middle". 😉 Nutshell.

More worrying is the "once a result is announced it is taken as fact and cannot be changed".  The worrying part is if a referee, or announcer, make a genuine honest mistake over a heat result, the incorrect information is announced & therefore taken as fact, then it remains so & seemingly cannot be changed....

[LisaColette]

1 hour ago, martinmauger said:

 More worrying is the "once a result is announced it is taken as fact and cannot be changed".  The worrying part is if a referee, or announcer, make a genuine honest mistake over a heat result, the incorrect information is announced & therefore taken as fact, then it remains so & seemingly cannot be changed....

It is in the rules that they can correct a genuine mistake. They just can't exclude a rider the ref decided not to. 

[marko]

2026 is done and dusted, all that’s important now is that the refs are aware than if the front wheel is over, it only needs the back tyre to be touching the white line to be enough to warrant an exclusion, so we never have to go through this again.