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And therein lies another issue.. Salaries are needed to maintain kit that needs to be at a level to fund individual ambitions.. Individual ambitions that feed nothing directly back to the clubs through increased numbers, even if they have someone who has achieved something on their books.. And personally, if they want to run the sport as a team sport, and the rider wants to ride full time, then all sponsorship should go into a pool for the club to use.. Even in F1, some drivers have to bring £x amount of sponsorship to the team just to get to drive the car.. Obviously with two/three/four teams each, some in different countries, dividing up the sponsorship may be a tad difficult though... A recent example of a theft from a young "junior" making his way in the Speedway World highlighted just how ridiculous things have become.. According to his team manager in the SS, to buy the kit stolen from his van, from scratch, would be £20k... A van that was ultra professionally finished on the outside with a superb action shot of the rider painted on the side... When a "junior" feels he needs all that just to compete in a sport ran in front of several hundred people, then it truly is in trouble..

So many guests these days, it feels like I'm at a wedding every week

It has been a steep learning curve for Flint having Berwick as his home track and then riding Monmore. I think he's been great since we signed him to replace Tom bacon and it would be great if we signed him on a premanent deal.

But back then you got to watch the worlds best on TV on one of only three channels most Saturday afternoons, with many of them household names.. And then had your tea... And then went to watch the same lads ride at your local track.. For a small dent in your disposable income.. With England ruling the roost in the Speedway World... Meaning the domestic leagues fed off the international success being beamed into (literally) millions of homes.. And if PC or Ivan were "elsewhere" and a guest replaced them, you found out at the track, after you had paid to get in, not days in advance.. Then the USA and the Danes took over.. So Promoters brought more of them over.. And then more Swedes, Norwegians, Aussies, Czechs, NZ's, Finns, Poles, etc etc etc.. And then viewing figures dropped because England were no longer winning, nor even looking like winning.. So the TV companies stopped beaming the sport into millions of homes... So then crowds started to drop in domestic racing.. Meaning inflation busting admission fees started to rise to pay for all these overseas stars, and the drop in crowd levels.. And that was 35 or so years ago.. Yet the same operating model has taken place all that time until today where we now seem to have realised that a successful national team might help fill some domestic league meetings with fans.. Yet that is undermined by all that nonsense that still exists with "guests", ridiculous made up rules, poor track prep etc, but is now done in a 24/7 social media glare which (quite rightly), holds it up to the ridicule it deserves.. People's disposable income has shrunk due to so much modern technology in the home and life in general being "a basic need", and not a luxury, with monthly outgoings very high in many homes.. Nowadays a Speedway meeting doesnt leave a small dent in the disposable income anymore, but a significant one.. What you could do and get away with in the 70's and 80's you cannot now.. The Worlds moved on, but UK Speedway didn't, and to a huge degree, still hasn't. .

But if you want to sell it as a team sport there has to be emotional attachment to that team.. Or simply no point in doing it... UK Speedway obviously cannot/choose not to (delete as applicable), run it as a team sport "properly" therefore their operating model cannot do anything positive whatsoever, but can only impact it negatively.. Only the riders benefit from the operating model, team sponsors and fans definitely dont.. I 100% agree if what you had was entertaining then it could work, sadly when what you are watching comes under the word "contrived", getting people to buy into in more than once or twice initially will take some doing.. The lack of any league sponsor, or major company team sponsorship speaks volumes for its operating model as no company would want to put their name to something so made up.. Riders can pick and choose when to turn up, and have a night off as they are tired... Or get stopped from riding for their own team when fit, after representing their other team several times in the previous few days.. Both scenarios resulting in guests, as shown this week.. Teams will go into the play offs not allowed to sign replacements for genuinely injured riders out for the season, and instead get to use track specialist ringers as guests.. You would need a seasons worth of full on entertainment in every meeting to make all the above nonsense get accepted.. Speedway should just either decide to do "it properly" or not at all, as the current "fudge our way through" simply wont cut it.. And by "doing it properly" either run (at least) the top league with credibility, or run individual meetings similar to Grass tracks, Superbikes, MX and MotoGp, with decent fields and prize money.. When you have to collude with the promoters that what you are watching is "real" they have a serious problem, however.... The raw product of Speedway racing can be uniquely exhilarating from a spectating perspective... So THAT is what they should sell.. Meaningful meetings, with a decent standard of rider, all racing for a decent prize pot, on days or nights when the healthiest crowd can be attracted to generate some atmosphere, at a price point conducive to attract, rather than prohibit, the fans from turning up.. If that's within a team framework then fine, and if it isnt, then also fine...

I have to say that this is a fascinating and absorbing thread with fantastic contributions and points being made by knowledgable and passionate supporters of a once mighty sport. Any current or prospective promoters should sit themselves down in front of a PC with a big notepad and go through the whole thread making a plan for the future of Speedway!! Thanks all for a brilliant conversation, I've loved reading it.

Absolutely spot on. The worlds top riders back in the day, PC, Ole, Ivan etc, would have two bikes. Most riders only had one. A mechanic would cost you a fish n chip supper. The next day that rider would most likely have gone to work. Now days of course. It's 3 bikes a lovey fully kitted out van and a full time mechanic. So imo riders of today need to ride as many times a week as possible just to cover their outgoings. Unfortunately riders starting out see this as the norm and as such will aspire to making a living out of a sport that attracts less people than a lot of non-league football clubs. It's too far gone now. Riders will not accept anything less than what they get now. Could you imagine for example Bomber being told " You can only ride for one club"! To do this he would have to survive on most likely one bike a smaller van, use a mate for a mechanic and maybe shock horror get a part time job. I don't think it will happen, but if it is left as it is, the riders will have no clubs to ride for!!

Blimey that's a lot of air time

Mikebv sums it up nicely. Anyone who really thinks that you have a local team is in the main deluded. You have individual riders who are self employed and financially need to look after to number so will ride for anybody anywhere as long as they are earning. Individuals who rarely team ride or look out for their partner in a heat. So you have individuals who conveniently link themselves to a club name for their own benefit. No loyalty no local input, rarely out and about locally promoting their’ club and dictating when they ride, the type of track and not forgetting the weather has to be perfect. If a cat or dog pisses on a track, let’s abandon the meeting. People wonder why no one wants to be a major sponsor and TV uses the sport as a filler. Wholesale changes needed but it will never happen. It has lost its way and can never be compared to the set ups in other countries. It has fallen on its sword.

My first is in Eat but not in Cat... My second is in Duck but not in Pack... My third is in Igloo but not in.. Oh sod it.. It's in the Edinburgh v Brum KO Cup thread, Ian...

Tbf, you can't disagree with any of these points. I've always thought that the team should be around 51-53 points to accommodate the better riders but we more or less forced them elsewhere with the lower average year after year. Now riders have to have a few 'poor' meetings to keep themselves in with a chance of a job next season...

If the wildcard picks go the way the hive mind on here seems to think (and I'm with the crowd here too) then we will be as close to the top 15 as we have ever been. 14 of the predicted riders are in the Polish Ekstraliga top 20 averages., only Freddie Lindgren is outside the top 20, but his GP form clearly justifies his inclusion. Of the 20 top riders in the Ekstraliga two are under 21 reserves who should be discounted because their averages are inflated. That leaves in order: Kolodziej, N Pedersen, J Holder and G Laguta as the only ones not likely to be in the GP series next year. I could make a claim for any of those four, but none would be overwhelming.

To be fair, they did bring in the Green Helmet Cover... Pretty damn radical... Couldn't move at the old Kirky Lane track the night they introduced that.. Queues back to Levenshulme..

Vaculik a top 10 rider in the world, no reason why he shouldn’t be in the series at all

But what isn't accounted for there is the rise of sponsorship. Maybe a few of the top riders had some sponsorship in the 60s and early 70s, but not many. Now most do, and it was Terry Betts years ago who said that was the start of changing the sport from a team to more individual sport as it was always important for the individual rider to shine rather than the team, due to their sponsorship or hope of attracting more Egon Müller maybe the epitome of this. Always had sponsorship blazened on his leathers, and always more interested in the individual aspect rather than the team side of the sport

I was there last night but just noticed it's on Eurosport now so thought I'd check it out. It's started at heat 8. I know the first 7 races were fairly routine but surely show all 15 heats in an hour program

But the important change we made is now injured, and the change we really needed to make is still there

A selective response to an overview which in my view has accurately described the sad state that speedway finds itself in and has little chance of recovery without a major sea change. Let’s face Speedway has lost its way, promoters, club owners, managers and local sponsors are delusional and what you had way back in the 70’s and beyond was entertainment with the elite of world riders gracing U K tracks plying their trade and offering entertainment with up and coming talent given the chance either through second halves or via a reserve spot to take on the great and good of the sport. The training and honing your track craft is lost on the current crop of gate and go merchants. One thing that is indisputable is that the sport in this country is in serious decline and we may well lose, for a variety of reasons, the likes of Eastbourne, Swindon, Peterborough, Newcastle, Poole, Birmingham and who knows which other tracks that are under the threat of housing development etc. and/or are for financial reasons borderline cases to continue in 2022. I like many regret the sad state that speedway finds itself in and having been to meetings since 1968 it has had its peaks and troughs but it is a simple format which can entertain except that the riders are not committed to the clubs and the promoters are held to ransom by the riders whose interest ceases at the bank account. That is fine but most riders treat the supporter/customer with such contempt they do not deserve the following. Most of the riders in the upper echelons are so far removed from reality and that state of speedway in the U.K. that they need to get real.

It has everything to do with it if you want to run a league or cup competition. Without credibility you won't get major backers unless they are speedway fans. There are plenty on here who have said credibility is a major issue & why they have given up! If you want to run a Micky mouse league that means nothing to anyone bar about 20000 people nationwide each week then you don't need it. Just to put that in context 20000 people a week roughly attend UK speedway possibly less if the same person attendeds more that one meeting. My local football club Ipswich had more than that to watch league one game on Saturday.

Yes we have staged a really successful and pretty high profile in Oxford 3TT over the summer with Oxford, Cradley and the Isle of Wight. Every meeting was really entertaining and certainly got the media responses I am sure Oxford (and the BSPL) would have hoped for in the push to return to sport to Cowley.

Everyone focuses on "credibiity", but that his little or nothing to do with it. If it was an enjoyable and entertaining night out, most wouldn't give a toss about credibility...

I am fortunate enough to have attended many meetings in Poland, and across the globe really, but I can say in Poland their greatest asset is their fan base. People go because other people go, win, lose or draw, and of course it creates atmosphere, drama and a belonging. It would feel odd not to go on whatever race day it is and attend. And speedway takes place on most days of the week if you include the lower leagues. It's how we felt as kids and young adults at our local speedway tracks across the UK. Large crowds generate large revenue, large interest and every meeting is an event. From the bars and eateries outside the stadium with music and stalls, walking up the road with hundreds of other fans, every bar is full, queues at every food stall or souvenir stall, every fan in their club or national colours. This just doesn’t happen here really - we have lost momentum; we MUST build from the start again. It is the only way, in my view. No one will put a lot of money into speedway to take over the league. It is so different to darts and snooker when effectively the owner of the championship owns the "club" as all the players are individuals.... and nowhere is the business model of darts and snooker a big success in speedway except for the GP - just look at Cardiff, where individuals race under an ownership of the GP... same for F1, stocks, pretty much all other motorsport. So, my view remains steadfast... if we want team speedway we build from the base up, gaining maximum riders interaction to rebuild the sport in the UK. It's interesting to read the odd overly vocal person who says our speedway on the island is a joke, circus, funfair....mainly it comes from those who have no club or who are not satisfied with their own clubs, but oddly no one who attends our meetings thinks its a joke, and yet I see time and time again criticism at all levels for league speedway (which by the way breaks my heart as we want speedway to thrive in the UK and also because we actively "big it up" to tourists who visit us). Most complaint boils down to getting the basics right. And when you get the basics right, peoples opinions changes, people enjoy the show, circus, funfair and bring their mates, people write positive feedback and then privately send feedback of areas they believe promoters can improve, the crowds grow organically, they give feedback on the show... and the cycle is self-perpetuating and as in Poland a 30,000 crowd has a fan base return of 1% their crowd is 30,300, then 30,630 the week after... for a track with lets say 300... its 303, followed by 306 and so on... so we must start from scratch, a blank piece of paper... a new dawn. We should not believe this is a five-minute job either. It isn’t. But my view again is, done correctly it will be the building blocks of speedway for tomorrow's fans. Enjoy your speedway, remember its always easy to put someone down, a club down, a rider down, but takes a stronger person to stand up and shout positivity publicly and not just for hearts, likes or a reaction. All the best and see you trackside, Barry

So “wheels in motion” other week and now it seems final.. but then 2 interested parties? Who knows what’s going on

Congratulations to Chris Harris #37, this year’s winner Commiserations to Zach Wajtknecht who fell whilst leading in the final

Mark Cossar / Gareth Williams A double for the #37s