Glasgow v Poole/Poole v Glasgow. Playoff Final 2/4th Nov 2021.

[lisa-colette 6,028]

Just now, Bagpuss said:

I thought Hans was the fifth before he signed for Leicester? 

Or Batch before Kent, his was a later signing than Hans I think! So up to 6 at start of the season. 

[Skidder1 7,637]

Its a matter of fact that if any 'top' riders are attracted back then admission prices will increase - FACT!

[Bagpuss 10,780]

5 minutes ago, Skidder1 said:

Its a matter of fact that if any 'top' riders are attracted back then admission prices will increase - FACT!

I suspect prices will go up regardless, they usually do.

[Skidder1 7,637]

Just now, Bagpuss said:

I suspect prices will go up regardless, they usually do.

Poole's prices haven't increased for 4 seasons. Its just crazy to increase admission prices just to overpay riders. - ask Eastbourne!!

[lisa-colette 6,028]

1 minute ago, Skidder1 said:

Poole's prices haven't increased for 4 seasons. Its just crazy to increase admission prices just to overpay riders. - ask Eastbourne!!

Actually Poole's prices have gone down for me in a way as they made U11s free when it used to be U5s, so better off by £6 each meeting this season! 

[lbw 869]

9 minutes ago, lisa-colette said:

Actually Poole's prices have gone down for me in a way as they made U11s free when it used to be U5s, so better off by £6 each meeting this season! 

And I get in as disabled which is £3 off. Not many clubs do a disabled scheme unless they keep it quiet like Leicester do.

At Leicester the carer is free for a disabled person with the disabled person paying adult price but no where is this mentioned in their admissions. Don't know why.

[King Jamie 356]

On 11/6/2021 at 7:20 PM, PirateShip said:

Av one league, with 5 riders per team.

Top 4 riders av 6 programmed rides. With 2 riders getting an additional ride each in the nominated heat 15.

5th rider (reserve) 4 programmed rides.

This set up will ensure more rides and more meetings also giving more rides with there being only the one league so riders will no longer need 2 teams to earn a living.

Simple solution imo.

Does that work financially?

Example - at the moment there are 7 riders per team - 3 heat leaders, 2 second strings and 2 reserves. In 5 rider teams, let's say there will be 2 heat leaders, 2 second strings and 1 reserve. You may be thinking differently, but I'll go with that for now.

Now, I know absolutely nothing about pay rates in speedway but let's just keep it relatively simple and say:

Heat leaders - £100 per point

Second strings - £70 per point

Reserves - £45 per point

Currently, in general, the top 3 cover 14 rides between them (3 x 4 programmed, plus 2 nominated), the middle order 8 rides and bottom end likewise = a total of 30 (15 heats).

Therefore, the base cost 'per point' would be:

Heat leaders - £100 x 14 rides = £1,400

Second strings - £70 x 8 rides = £560

Reserves - £45 x 8 rides = £360

Total = £2,320

In your suggestion of 5 man teams, as I said above, I'm guessing we would lose 1 'heat leader' and 1 'reserve'? For consistency purposes, I'm also giving the nominated rides to the top 2.

Now, using your example, the updated base cost 'per point' would be:

Heat leaders - £100 x 14 rides = £1,400

Second strings - £70 x 12 rides = £840

Reserves - £45 x 4 rides = £180

Total = £2,420

That looks like it would end up more expensive.

I have made the assumption that any current second string becoming a heat leader will want heat leader status and paid accordingly. Likewise any current reserve who becomes a second string.

Other points to consider:

Is riding for one team enough to earn a living? Take a current number 1 - he can have 5 races in the Championship and at least 4 per meeting in the Premiership. He can also take a Tactical Substitute ride so, say, on average 10 rides between his two teams. Cutting that down to 7 rides for 1 team - what does it do? It takes a potential £900 off his top line (£100 per point x 3 rides). In fact, it may even be higher than that, depending on which league's pay rates are being taken away. What I mean by that is, using the example of Sam Masters. My pay rates used above are for the Championship. As I said, I could be well off the mark but they're only for example purposes. I would also assume Sam is paid more by Wolves than he is by Edinburgh. Therefore, is it up to the Monarchs to compensate him and give him a pay rise because he's missing out on 3 rides per week?

Number of teams - currently:

Premiership - 6 teams (20 meetings)

Championship - 11 teams (20 meetings)

National League - 6 teams (10 meetings)

Of the NL, only Mildenhall are a standalone team. Therefore, let's add them to the pile and we'll have one league of 18 teams (6 Prem, 11 Champ and 1 NL). Race each other home and away = 34 meetings, which is 6 less than 'Sam Masters' was eligible to compete in in 2021.

Promotions will save on travel costs, due to less riders in the team and less fixtures taking place both home and away. Will this e enough to offset the increased pay per point?

Riders may incur less costs for repair and maintenance of bikes, etc. Will this e enough to offset their potential loss of earnings?

On the last two points, I'm thinking 'no' would be the answer but am happy to be proven wrong.

Anything else I've missed, which could tip me in favour of the idea?

[Bagpuss 10,780]

1 hour ago, Skidder1 said:

Poole's prices haven't increased for 4 seasons. Its just crazy to increase admission prices just to overpay riders. - ask Eastbourne!!

Did they go down as a result of moving to the Championship? If not thats effectively an increase

£20 at Lynn nowadays, they won't see me too often now that threshold has been broken I'm afraid. 

[lbw 869]

1 hour ago, King Jamie said:

Does that work financially?

Example - at the moment there are 7 riders per team - 3 heat leaders, 2 second strings and 2 reserves. In 5 rider teams, let's say there will be 2 heat leaders, 2 second strings and 1 reserve. You may be thinking differently, but I'll go with that for now.

Now, I know absolutely nothing about pay rates in speedway but let's just keep it relatively simple and say:

Heat leaders - £100 per point

Second strings - £70 per point

Reserves - £45 per point

Currently, in general, the top 3 cover 14 rides between them (3 x 4 programmed, plus 2 nominated), the middle order 8 rides and bottom end likewise = a total of 30 (15 heats).

Therefore, the base cost 'per point' would be:

Heat leaders - £100 x 14 rides = £1,400

Second strings - £70 x 8 rides = £560

Reserves - £45 x 8 rides = £360

Total = £2,320

In your suggestion of 5 man teams, as I said above, I'm guessing we would lose 1 'heat leader' and 1 'reserve'? For consistency purposes, I'm also giving the nominated rides to the top 2.

Now, using your example, the updated base cost 'per point' would be:

Heat leaders - £100 x 14 rides = £1,400

Second strings - £70 x 12 rides = £840

Reserves - £45 x 4 rides = £180

Total = £2,420

That looks like it would end up more expensive.

I have made the assumption that any current second string becoming a heat leader will want heat leader status and paid accordingly. Likewise any current reserve who becomes a second string.

Other points to consider:

Is riding for one team enough to earn a living? Take a current number 1 - he can have 5 races in the Championship and at least 4 per meeting in the Premiership. He can also take a Tactical Substitute ride so, say, on average 10 rides between his two teams. Cutting that down to 7 rides for 1 team - what does it do? It takes a potential £900 off his top line (£100 per point x 3 rides). In fact, it may even be higher than that, depending on which league's pay rates are being taken away. What I mean by that is, using the example of Sam Masters. My pay rates used above are for the Championship. As I said, I could be well off the mark but they're only for example purposes. I would also assume Sam is paid more by Wolves than he is by Edinburgh. Therefore, is it up to the Monarchs to compensate him and give him a pay rise because he's missing out on 3 rides per week?

Number of teams - currently:

Premiership - 6 teams (20 meetings)

Championship - 11 teams (20 meetings)

National League - 6 teams (10 meetings)

Of the NL, only Mildenhall are a standalone team. Therefore, let's add them to the pile and we'll have one league of 18 teams (6 Prem, 11 Champ and 1 NL). Race each other home and away = 34 meetings, which is 6 less than 'Sam Masters' was eligible to compete in in 2021.

Promotions will save on travel costs, due to less riders in the team and less fixtures taking place both home and away. Will this e enough to offset the increased pay per point?

Riders may incur less costs for repair and maintenance of bikes, etc. Will this e enough to offset their potential loss of earnings?

On the last two points, I'm thinking 'no' would be the answer but am happy to be proven wrong.

Anything else I've missed, which could tip me in favour of the idea?

Wots ur suggestion then clever d*ck? It's so easy for someone to pull someone else's suggestion apart like a Mr Einstein when they haven't got a constructive plan of their own to suggest.

And anyway, my suggestion is far better than some of the hair brained ideas that actually get put into place by the powers that be.

Crikey, did an apple hit u on the bonce! Can we av Einstein's law of relatively please, wot goes up must come down.....oh of course that doesn't happen in British Speedway!

Edited November 8, 2021 by PirateShip

[lisa-colette 6,028]

37 minutes ago, Bagpuss said:

Did they go down as a result of moving to the Championship? If not thats effectively an increase

£20 at Lynn nowadays, they won't see me too often now that threshold has been broken I'm afraid. 

£20 is a lot when effectively only 5 riders that can't see in the Championship! Poole has been £17 for a while. Probably would have gone up to £18 if we stayed in the Prem I'm guessing. 

[ragdoll64 647]

5 hours ago, lisa-colette said:

Don't think Brady Kurtz rides in the Championship!! 

To lisa-colette and others who have pointed out other riders not riding in the Championship……..I said TOP SCORING riders and was answering jenga. Thank you

[topsoil 2,498]

3 hours ago, PirateShip said:

Wots ur suggestion then clever d*ck? It's so easy for someone to pull someone else's suggestion apart like a Mr Einstein when they haven't got a constructive plan of their own to suggest.

And anyway, my suggestion is far better than some of the hair brained ideas that actually get put into place by the powers that be.

Crikey, did an apple hit u on the bonce! Can we av Einstein's law of relatively please, wot goes up must come down.....oh of course that doesn't happen in British Speedway!

Somebody picks holes in your idea and this is how you respond  ever thought of a career in P R?

[Skidder1 7,637]

3 hours ago, lisa-colette said:

£20 is a lot when effectively only 5 riders that can't see in the Championship! Poole has been £17 for a while. Probably would have gone up to £18 if we stayed in the Prem I'm guessing. 

Glasgow already charge £25 for some grandstand seats.

[Tigeratheart 77]

4 minutes ago, Skidder1 said:

Glasgow already charge £25 for some grandstand seats.

It’s £17 at Glasgow , £1 extra to sit in the grandstand .

[Weeyin 1,022]

3 minutes ago, Skidder1 said:

Glasgow already charge £25 for some grandstand seats.

No they don't unless it is a hospitality thing, I sit in the "posh" seats under the ref box, yes I paid extra for the privilege on top of my season ticket, that is my choice as I struggle to get good viewing unless I am at the front