Should Laguta and Emil be kicked out of the GP Series?

[Technik 491]

29 minutes ago, enotian said:

Kind of defeats the object doesn't it. Was it Simon Wigg who rode on a Dutch license to improve his route to World Finals? Nobody would have acknowledged him as a Dutch world champion. it would have been a British win.

Important not to consider the individuals in this. Sure it will be harsh on the competitors as I'm sure they're not funded by the Russian government in any way but in these circumstances where there is no other recourse for the actions of Putin isn't it important to send the message to the Russian people that the regime which they live under (allegedly voted for) is rotten and to be ostracised by the global community. And as such isn't welcome to partake in global events.

Of course this needs to be wider than  just sporting events to make the message strong and clear.  But can you see global corporations withdrawing their produce from Russia? Forsaking profits? So it is left to sport to make a stand.

Really difficult as Russia are not the only country/regime which can be considered undesirable. I think Afghanistan are still represented in cricket competitions but we'd hardly invite the Taliban to a party. And we're all more than happy for oppressive middle eastern regimes to buy football clubs. So where does it end and who are the arbitrators of what is and isn't acceptable? Whose to say that our western beliefs are more valid than those of rogue states? We certainly don't live in utopia here in the western world.

However, I think it's fairly obvious to all concerned that the aggressive invasion of Ukraine, for what appears to be historical/egotistical reasons, is abhorrent and clearly not going to be resolved by politicians or corporations, isn't it important to let the Russian public know that the actions of their leaders are not acceptable by the rest of the World.   

I do know a little bit about Simon Wigg & the reason he raced on a Dutch licence.

Simon at the time was in dispute with the ACU. At the time he was the World Long Track Champion & wanted to race in all the major events in the European calender. THE ACU insisted that Simon must race in the British grasstrack championship for which he would have been happy to do, however as he had missed the previous seasons championship he would need to ride in a minimum of 6 club events then the qualifing round before the British final & if he didn't do this then the ACU would not enter him in the Long track Championship. Simon was not prepared to give up 8 weeks racing as the champion & found a loophole. That loophole was to race under a Dutch licence, Their only stipulation was that he would race for the Dutch speedway team also. Ironicly another rider was also having issues with his own federation at the same time. The Italian Armando Castanga & both riders represented the Dutch national team in a pairs event in Russia.

[OveFundinFan 4,142]

44 minutes ago, enotian said:

.Of course this needs to be wider than  just sporting events to make the message strong and clear.  But can you see global corporations withdrawing their produce from Russia? Forsaking profits? So it is left to sport to make a stand.

Some businesses have already lost revenue.         
Man United have terminated their sponsorship deal with Aeroflot…. Was worth £millions.       
Exports stopped to Russia, so firms with orders to supply will have lost £’s.     
Lots going on that are not headline makers.

What has probably peeved Putin the most is that Russia has been kicked out of the Eurovision Song Contest ….… those Russian grannies will be too old next year, they will have to retire. 
 

[enotian 562]

1 hour ago, OveFundinFan said:

I don’t think that would work at all. It would be difficult to denounce the country of your birth. Inevitably it would mean the pair of them to move there family out of Russia too. Not going to happen.

Agreed. During the cold war there were defections where the defectors no doubt lived in fear even though they were 'safe' in the west.  Heavens knows what retaliatory action was taken out on their relatives.

So yes a big ask but I don't think we can continue with these quasi bans which allow Russians to compete just without a flag or anthem. Harsh on the majority of their sports persons but an all out ban seems to be the only way to send the message that either state sponsored drugs programmes or illegal invasions are not acceptable to the rest of the World.  

[enotian 562]

1 hour ago, Technik said:

I do know a little bit about Simon Wigg & the reason he raced on a Dutch licence.

Thanks. Interesting insight into the reasons for the switch. Surely the guy had earned some credit.

However he could have ridden in clogs and he'd still not have been considered a Dutchman.

[Rosie76 15]

Would they be eligable to change nationality. If they became Polish it could cause  problems as the FIM appear not to like to many representatives from one country, Also some years ago I seem to remember soneone suggesting on the forum that the Laguta's had an uncle high up in the Putin regeime.

[HenryW 1,178]

2 hours ago, old bob at herne bay said:

The situation may solve itself, as if Laguta and Sayfitdonov are currently in Russia they will have extreme difficulty travelling anywhere else at the moment (Belarus  excepted).

Both of them live in Bydgoszcz in Poland and have Polish citizenship.

[old bob at herne bay 828]

Thank you Henry W.

Will be a brave Polish promoter that lets them ride in Polish League speedway.

[BluTiger 21,696]

 

[1 valve 558]

Speedway supporters almost certainly agree that the two Russians involved in the GP series are innocent of any political views v the Ukraine. 
However, they are Russian and as per FIFA’s actions & that of F1 the speedway authorities must ensure  there is zero inclusion of Russians on the global stage until Putin and his cronies are put firmly in the box they need to be sentenced too. 
 

[HenryW 1,178]

36 minutes ago, 1 valve said:

Speedway supporters almost certainly agree that the two Russians involved in the GP series are innocent of any political views v the Ukraine. 
However, they are Russian and as per FIFA’s actions & that of F1 the speedway authorities must ensure  there is zero inclusion of Russians on the global stage until Putin and his cronies are put firmly in the box they need to be sentenced too. 
 

I'm confused by the highlighted part.

Unless I've missed something new, FIFA have said that Russia can continue to compete in World Cup qualifiers, they just aren't allowed to play in Russia.

F1 have removed the Russia GP from the calendar but they haven't done anything about drivers so far. (I expect Mazepin to lose his seat, but for purely financial reasons rather than the FIA forcing him out)

Edited February 27, 2022 by HenryW

[Humphrey Appleby 13,955]

6 hours ago, enotian said:

So yes a big ask but I don't think we can continue with these quasi bans which allow Russians to compete just without a flag or anthem. 

I thought that was farcical appeasement given their 'ban' was because of state sponsorship of doping programmes. To then allow them back to compete as a Russian team, however it was dressed up, was no sanction at all.

No particular problem with Russians continuing to compete as independent individuals (e.g. tennis players and speedway riders), but teams and individuals officially representing Russia should not be allowed. 

Life isn't fair. When the UK left the EU, British citizens immediately lost a lot of rights regardless of how they'd voted in the referendum, and that wasn't even about starting a war.  

[Humphrey Appleby 13,955]

8 hours ago, Technik said:

Simon at the time was in dispute with the ACU. At the time he was the World Long Track Champion & wanted to race in all the major events in the European calender. THE ACU insisted that Simon must race in the British grasstrack championship for which he would have been happy to do, however as he had missed the previous seasons championship he would need to ride in a minimum of 6 club events then the qualifing round before the British final & if he didn't do this then the ACU would not enter him in the Long track Championship. Simon was not prepared to give up 8 weeks racing as the champion & found a loophole. That loophole was to race under a Dutch licence, Their only stipulation was that he would race for the Dutch speedway team also. Ironicly another rider was also having issues with his own federation at the same time. The Italian Armando Castanga & both riders represented the Dutch national team in a pairs event in Russia.

Well it's a difficult one as it would hardly be fair on other riders if there was an established qualification process that one rider could bypass. As it was, he still had to do a certain number of meetings in the Netherlands (one of which was a speedway meeting that I went to), although from memory they were on Saturdays so maybe he didn't need to miss an lucrative grasstrack/longtrack bookings as a result.

I seem to remember though, that riders needed to finish in the top 20 of the British Masters to get a licence to race internationally, which strikes me as being nothing but restraint of trade and probably illegal. 

[Grachan 7,362]

4 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

No particular problem with Russians continuing to compete as independent individuals (e.g. tennis players and speedway riders), but teams and individuals officially representing Russia should not be allowed. 

 

 

That's pretty much where I stand too

Danil Medvedev and Andrey Rublev are still playing in tennis tournaments.

Both have spoken out against the war and Rublev, in particular, has been quite high profile about it. He wrote an anti-war message on a camera lens after a match last week and also played in a doubles match with a Ukranian partner.

I don't see the positions of Laguta or Sayfudinov being any any different. They are riding as individuals, although some sort of comment on how they feel about the situation in Ukraine might not go amiss.

[1 valve 558]

8 hours ago, HenryW said:

I'm confused by the highlighted part.

Unless I've missed something new, FIFA have said that Russia can continue to compete in World Cup qualifiers, they just aren't allowed to play in Russia.

F1 have removed the Russia GP from the calendar but they haven't done anything about drivers so far. (I expect Mazepin to lose his seat, but for purely financial reasons rather than the FIA forcing him out)

Whoops. I meant to type “inclusion of Russian teams” rather than “Russians” 

[Grachan 7,362]

10 hours ago, Blupanther said:

 

I missed this earlier. If this is the real Emil then I see no reason why anyone should be against him competing.