Len Silver On Tactical Subs

[Star in Exile 0]

"My heart is still banging from the excitement of last Friday's thrilling encounter with the Poole Pirates. At one stage I really thought we'd about had it, and all because of the existing Tactical Substitute rule which allows a star man to replace a lower scoring rider when the team is only 6 pts in arrear. For some years now I have considered this rule in its exisiting form to be patently unfair because if a strongish team, racing at either a very 'unbiased track' or at the home of a weak team, finds itself 6 pts behind, by the use of tacticals, that team can easily be 2 pts AHEAD within 2 races and win a match that otherwise they would have lost. A couple of seasons back it happened to us about 6 times and pushed us down the league table to a placing we definitely did not deserve.

 

I believe the Tactical Substitute rule should be changed to make it more difficult (but not impossible) to win a match by its use and therefore remove the injustice that presently exists.

 

Of course very strong clubs,or those like Ipswich, with tremendous home advantage, love the rule as it is because they, if ever, suffer its injustices and often benefit from it when away from home. So, when I proposed changes in the past, my suggestions have been voted out by those who enjoy the benefits of the rule. Nonetheless I am intending once again to try and get things altered this winter."

 

This was Len Silver's editorial in the programme for the Hackney Metro Fours events on 2nd September 1983. I wonder what he really things about double pointed mickey mouse joker tacticals ?

[Grachan 7,362]

The tactical sub rule was a travesty and very unfair. The only thing in its favour is that the double points ride is even worse.

 

Both rules are difficult to justify to non-speedway folk attending a first meeting.

[lucifer sam 3,953]

The tactical sub rule was a travesty and very unfair. The only thing in its favour is that the double points ride is even worse.

 

Both rules are difficult to justify to non-speedway folk attending a first meeting.

 

Oh come on, there was nothing wrong with the tactical sub. Obviously you're a fan of landslide wins, but I prefer a close-fought meeting.

 

All the best

Rob

 

[mickthemuppet 976]

The tactical sub rule was a travesty and very unfair. The only thing in its favour is that the double points ride is even worse.

 

Both rules are difficult to justify to non-speedway folk attending a first meeting.

You could also say in Cricket the Duckworth Lewis method is stupid were it is possible to win a match by scoring less runs than your oppponent. Then there is Tennis where you can win many more points than your opponent and still lose the match. Then in horse racing because you are a good horse you are penalized and have to give inferior horses weight all round. If you analyse it enough nearly all sports have funny rules.

[chunky 6,101]

Oh come on, there was nothing wrong with the tactical sub. Obviously you're a fan of landslide wins, but I prefer a close-fought meeting.

 

Have to say I'm with you, Rob. It does add excitement, and a very interesting strategy at times. Like Grachan, I think the double points is absolutely ridiculous, but tac subs and r/r (in their old form) were great. At least teams are relying on their own resources...

 

Steve

[chunky 6,101]

If you analyse it enough nearly all sports have funny rules.

 

Even away goals counting double can be included here...

 

Steve

[Ian 24]

This was Len Silver's editorial in the programme for the Hackney Metro Fours events on 2nd September 1983. I wonder what he really things about double pointed mickey mouse joker tacticals ?

 

I may be wrong, but I had the impression that it was the same Len Silver who was responsible for the introduction of the dingly-dangly-mickey-mousedoo-dahs. If I'm right, it's a fine piece of irony.

 

 

[RobMcCaffery 2,752]

I may be wrong, but I had the impression that it was the same Len Silver who was responsible for the introduction of the dingly-dangly-mickey-mousedoo-dahs. If I'm right, it's a fine piece of irony.

 

An interesting point Ian. Of course there is a subtle difference between the programme notes and the later championing of the Golden Double.

 

Len's Hackney teams were never top-heavy, usually consisting of a good number one effectively supported by six second strings. As such they were always vulnerable to tactical substitions from a side with strong heat-leaders. Nonetheless I believe that his comments then were to enhance the sport, not just Hackney's cause.

 

The Golden Double and subsequent Tactical Ride regulations had nothing to do with improving the sport - merely achieving cost savings by ultimately avoiding having to pay heat leaders for extra rides, although in the initial form one heat leader could have one extra ride.

 

The irony is still very strong.

 

Rob McCaffery.

 

 

[parklife 0]

Even away goals counting double can be included here...

 

Steve

 

 

Away goals have never counted double!

 

If scores are level on aggregate, the team that has scored the most away goals wins. A lot of people talk about them counting double, but it is a nonsense. If this was the case then losing 2-1 away and drawing 0-0 ah home would make it 2-2.

[chunky 6,101]

Away goals have never counted double!

 

Okay; I'm bloody sorry!!! I realised what I'd done after I wrote it.

 

However, it is still a strange rule, considering that there is less of a home advantage in footy than in something like speedway.

 

Steve

[Phil Silvers 59]

 

 

I may be wrong, but I had the impression that it was the same Len Silver who was responsible for the introduction of the dingly-dangly-mickey-mousedoo-dahs. If I'm right, it's a fine piece of irony.

 

You are wrong. Len has always stated in any correspondence that he is against the tactical ride.

[Phil Silvers 59]

<!--quoteo(post=1703334:date=Apr 2 2010, 11:39 PM:name=chunky)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chunky @ Apr 2 2010, 11:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1703334"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Even away goals counting double can be included here...

 

Steve<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

 

 

Away goals have never counted double!

 

If scores are level on aggregate, the team that has scored the most away goals wins. A lot of people talk about them counting double, but it is a nonsense. If this was the case then losing 2-1 away and drawing 0-0 ah home would make it 2-2.

 

Correct, that scenario would be a loss of 2-1 aggregate score. However if the team behind then won 1-0 at home making the agg 2-2, they would then go through because they scored an away goal. If score in second leg was 3-2, then the other team would progress by means of scoring two away goals.

[Tsunami 10,219]

You are wrong. Len has always stated in any correspondence that he is against the tactical ride.

 

Just noticed this thread. Your statement cannot be true surely as it was Len that proposed it and Ronnie Russell seconded it. I have reason to remember it.

Edited May 31, 2010 by Tsunami

[Ian 24]

You are wrong. Len has always stated in any correspondence that he is against the tactical ride.

 

 

Just noticed this thread. Your statement cannot be true surely as it was Len that proposed it and Ronnie Russell seconded it. I have reason to remember it.

 

Cheers Tsunami. I was pretty sure it was a Silver Special.

[norbold 7,116]

Just noticed this thread. Your statement cannot be true surely as it was Len that proposed it and Ronnie Russell seconded it. I have reason to remember it.

Yes, you're quite right, Tsunami....

 

Crickey, did I really say that? I'm going for a long lie down....