stratton 1,491 Posted November 30, 2015 Massive load of sour grapes. Szczakiel was the best rider on the day. He beat Mauger not once, but twice. Mauger was behind Szczakiel when he fell off. Szczakiel had to really race for the points in his last couple of rides. In his fourth ride, the Russian barged him all over the place, and he was last at one point, but then battled back up to second place. Plech was 'gifted' an extra point by Jancarz. Szczakiel received no such gifts, he earned 13 points the hard way. The one-off World Final was won by the best rider on that particular day. In 1973, at Katowice, that was Jerzy Szczakiel. Therefore, he was a deserving World Champion. Ivan Mauger certainly never tried to detract from Szczakiel's achievement - quite the opposite. As Mauger pointed out in his autobiography, from 1971 to 1973, they met 13 times and it stood: Mauger 7, Sczcakiel 6. More-or-less 50/50. Szczakiel clearly had a lot of talent to achieve that. All the best Rob That is why Ivan was a GREAT champion, he dusted himself down came back and won another two titles.I was a massive Briggo fan but i admired Ivan so much what a man and champion to see him ride was a treat believe me. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve roberts 9,247 Posted November 30, 2015 Massive load of sour grapes. Szczakiel was the best rider on the day. He beat Mauger not once, but twice. Mauger was behind Szczakiel when he fell off. Szczakiel had to really race for the points in his last couple of rides. In his fourth ride, the Russian barged him all over the place, and he was last at one point, but then battled back up to second place. Plech was 'gifted' an extra point by Jancarz. Szczakiel received no such gifts, he earned 13 points the hard way. The one-off World Final was won by the best rider on that particular day. In 1973, at Katowice, that was Jerzy Szczakiel. Therefore, he was a deserving World Champion. Ivan Mauger certainly never tried to detract from Szczakiel's achievement - quite the opposite. As Mauger pointed out in his autobiography, from 1971 to 1973, they met 13 times and it stood: Mauger 7, Sczcakiel 6. More-or-less 50/50. Szczakiel clearly had a lot of talent to achieve that. All the best Rob Rob, Not sure if Jerzy Sczakiel was the best rider on that particular day just that he had the 'rub of the rubber' on that afternoon, Zenon Plech was well in for a chance of the title until un-ceremoniously 'knocked off' by the Russian, Gregori Chlynovski (apologies for the spelling) whilst leading. I'm convinced that Ivan would have passed Jerzy in the run-off but, as he has admitted many times since, he miscalculated his move and fell thus giving the race to the Pole. I take nothing away from Sczakiel. He took his chances (rolling starts) and won! That was the beauty and drama of one-off finals...which is why I prefer them to the Grand Prix! Steve 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
E I Addio 15,849 Posted November 30, 2015 (edited) Addio i think you are the only person who has said Ivan maybe was lucky in 79? others i have spoke to about it have never really considered it.In 1972 me with my bias Briggo head on believes he should of won it, but there was always that niggle in my mind that OLE could of been the best man on the night. He was very unlucky but it was his riding error though that made him in fall could Briggo have scored 14 ? would that have been anough.? It really has riled me over the years that Barry could of equaled Ove's record he deserved that in my book but it was not to be Eh!!OK Sid, I am happy to be corrected on Maugers 79 Title win. I cannot remember the details so maybe I am getting mixed up with another occasion. I totally agree with you about Briggo though. The other way of looking at it is that Fundin was sort of lucky to take 5 World titles. There was an interesting article in Classic Speedwáy when Bengt Jansen was talking about his run-off with Fundin. Apparently both riders knew that whoever won the toss for gate positions would win the title because one gate was working much better than the others. Ove won the toss and picked the best gate. Jansen said he even asked Fundin to swap gates on the basis Fundin already won 4 titles and Bengt hadn't won any but Ove wouldn't swap. Still I cant fault Fundin on his record. By all accounts, one of the very , very best the sport has ever seen. Edited November 30, 2015 by E I Addio Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldace 1,678 Posted December 1, 2015 As to your comment about Mauger, Sid , I agree with you that he was a bit lucky in 79, and I think in his previous win, but I can't really fault his win in 72 although I think things might have been different if Briggo hadn't been mown down by Bernt Persson. One finished the night a hero https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvb3kDJpR1w The other finished a villain https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRYM-qWMr6w 2 very similar first bends though, only difference is Hans didn't fall 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norbold 7,144 Posted December 1, 2015 The other way of looking at it is that Fundin was sort of lucky to take 5 World titles. No.Just no! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waiheke1 4,295 Posted December 1, 2015 One finished the night a hero The other finished a villain 2 very similar first bends though, only difference is Hans didn't fall And of course the way Bruce drove under penhall is reminiscent of the way Lee drove him aside on the way to victory a year earlier. A very fine line between hard and dirty. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve roberts 9,247 Posted December 1, 2015 (edited) No.Just no! I wish that I had seen Fundin in his prime (saw him compete in 1988 Golden Greats Meeting at Brandon) One of the true greats. To have seen Fundin, Craven, Briiggs, Moore and Knuttsson when they were all competing at the same time would have been something very special! Edited December 1, 2015 by steve roberts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lucifer sam 3,954 Posted December 1, 2015 To have seen Fundin, Craven, Briiggs, Moore and Knuttsson when they were all competing at the same time would have been something very special! Really it was Fundin, Craven, Briggs and Moore. Knutsson was younger than others. He first reached the World Final in 1961, by which time the other four had seven World Championships between them. Knutsson was very similar in age to Mauger, but retired early. But yes I'd have loved to see these riders competing against each other. All the best Rob 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iris123 21,042 Posted December 1, 2015 I did manage to see some heats with Fundin,Mauger,Briggo and PC.....although it was Collins,not Craven 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norbold 7,144 Posted December 1, 2015 (edited) I wish that I had scene Fundin in his prime (saw him compete in 1988 Golden Greats Meeting at Brandon) One of the true greats. To have seen Fundin, Craven, Briiggs, Moore and Knuttsson when they were all competing at the same time would have been something very special!One (or two I suppose!) of my best memories is seeing the two near end of season meetings at New Cross (The King of the South Cup and The Tom Farndon Memorial Trophy) in 1961 when not only did the "Big Five" take part but also Jack Young back to his very best. Sadly, on neither occasion did all six compete together - Craven and Knutson missed the KotS Cup and Fundin missed the TF Trophy - but, seeing all those greats together was incredible, especially as the winner on both occasions was Jack Young. I did see the Big Five all together in the Internationale Final at Harringay in 1961, when they took the first five places. Another great meeting, which Ove Fundin won on an absolutely neutral track that hadn't been raced on since 1954. Edited December 1, 2015 by norbold 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The White Knight 9,039 Posted December 1, 2015 One (or two I suppose!) of my best memories is seeing the two near end of season meetings at New Cross (The King of the South Cup and The Tom Farndon Memorial Trophy) in 1961 when not only did the "Big Five" take part but also Jack Young back to his very best. Sadly, on neither occasion did all six compete together - Craven and Knutson missed the KotS Cup and Fundin missed the TF Trophy - but, seeing all those greats together was incredible, especially as the winner on both occasions was Jack Young. I did see the Big Five all together in the International Final at Harringay in 1961, when they took the first five places. Another great meeting, which Ove Fundin won on an absolutely neutral track that hadn't been raced on since 1954. I don't envy folk much. But in this case I make an exception - I envy you. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted December 1, 2015 (edited) One (or two I suppose!) of my best memories is seeing the two near end of season meetings at New Cross (The King of the South Cup and The Tom Farndon Memorial Trophy) in 1961 when not only did the "Big Five" take part but also Jack Young back to his very best. Sadly, on neither occasion did all six compete together - Craven and Knutson missed the KotS Cup and Fundin missed the TF Trophy - but, seeing all those greats together was incredible, especially as the winner on both occasions was Jack Young. I did see the Big Five all together in the International Final at Harringay in 1961, when they took the first five places. Another great meeting, which Ove Fundin won on an absolutely neutral track that hadn't been raced on since 1954. Sorry norbold. This was at Harringay in 1958 -- HARRINGAY 1958 29th October 1958 Harringay Stadium, London Cavalcade of Speed Event Match Races Ht1 Split Waterman bt Alf Hagon ? Ht2 Ron How bt Danny Dunton ? Final Split Waterman bt Ron How and this in 1959 28th October 1959 Harringay Stadium, London Harringay Racers 28 New Cross Rangers 26 (Challenge) Edited December 1, 2015 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve roberts 9,247 Posted December 1, 2015 (edited) I guess it begs the question which riders I would have wanted to have see in action but didn't for obvious reasons... Peter Craven Tommy Farndon Jack Parker Jack Young Lionel Van Praag Sprouts Elder Come immediately to mind but there would be countless others... Edited December 1, 2015 by steve roberts 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratton 1,491 Posted December 1, 2015 One of my main regrets in speedway is not having seen Craven,Knutsson race live,both great riders.Knutsson for me goes down along with Lee,Collins,Gollob as someone who should of won more than 1 title they were all good anough to do it. One (or two I suppose!) of my best memories is seeing the two near end of season meetings at New Cross (The King of the South Cup and The Tom Farndon Memorial Trophy) in 1961 when not only did the "Big Five" take part but also Jack Young back to his very best. Sadly, on neither occasion did all six compete together - Craven and Knutson missed the KotS Cup and Fundin missed the TF Trophy - but, seeing all those greats together was incredible, especially as the winner on both occasions was Jack Young. I did see the Big Five all together in the International Final at Harringay in 1961, when they took the first five places. Another great meeting, which Ove Fundin won on an absolutely neutral track that hadn't been raced on since 1954. So jealous "Norbold" great days eh! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lucifer sam 3,954 Posted December 1, 2015 I guess it begs the question which riders I would have wanted to have see in action but didn't for obvious reasons... Peter Craven Tommy Farndon Jack Parker Jack Young Lionel Van Praag Sprouts Elder Come immediately to mind but there would be countless others... I'm intrigued in Max Grosskreutz, who apparently had a very unconventional style. He might he been the first-ever World Champion as well, but for an injury in 1936. All the best Rob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
