Hans Back Riding In Poland Today☺

[Steve0 5,517]

it is a play off replacement for a long term injury, probably your right i haven't counted exactly but 5 is still a fair amount and could be considered long term.

It was 2 weeks (from the date of his injury to your last EL league match) - still think it's long term?

[Joe Beevers 207]

BWitcher, please can you stop constantly whining about people walking away from the sport and Poole scamming continously because this is not the case as you have no evidence.

 

Whilst I believe a punishment should be handed out to Poole if in fact this ruling is true, but in truth we are going on hearsay and noone has actually provided any evidence that the injury most be 'long term' so if you can put your energies into finding that rule because that SCB rule website is dreadful and is like finding gold nuggets.

 

Poole have not scammed in any other way so far and only this one maybe the only one but to harp on about the credibility of the sport is tiring reading because I know real speedway fans go and watch their club, have a cheapish night out for some entertainment, watch their home team win or lose and go home.

 

The credibility of the sport has been the same for the last 25 years in my opinion. Sure, crowds have gone down but only due to the increasing prices and the top rider demands but speedway is still going strong and if you think a few loopholes being exploited and a few teams breaking the odd rule here and there are going to affect crowds, then you are barking up the wrong tree in my opinion.

 

Only a few rule sticklers maybe disgruntled but their passion at wanting teams to play fair is still not enough to stop going and watching their favourite team every week and the odd comment on the forum of, I am fed up with speedway is replaced by a single man who went speedway and begins a family who he decides to take to speedway as well. Like he cares about the difference between a club using a slightly better guest for an injured rider.

 

Poole have not scammed with Pedersen or the Lindback average but this is a rule that needs to be clarified and I would expect the chairman to act. If not, I won't lose sleep over it as I am a neutral and want to see great speedway between two world class lineups and preferably full strength teams.

[Bald Bloke 3,287]

 

The problem is not the scams that they pull, but the fact that they are allowed to do it.

 

Its all very well to blame Matt Ford, but to my mind every single other member of the BSPA is culpable because they let it happen.

 

 

^^ Yep.

[foreverblue 6,096]

It was 2 weeks (from the date of his injury to your last EL league match) - still think it's long term?

Longer than a week is long term.

[ouch 1,191]

In a way I'm an example of a fan deciding not to attend anymore.

I use to go to all Aces away fixtures, open meetings, fixtures from other leagues and if I was in a particular part of the country with a track an hour or so away I'd pay it a visit. I watch 20-30 less meetings now as a result of the cheating etc that goes on.

 

I'd never think of penalising Belle Vue so I have a season ticket and go to every match apart from the play offs, I've never seen one as it doesn't fit right so I give them a wide berth.

 

 

I was interested in the post from a Poole fan saying crowds in 2003 were around 4000 put now they are half that. Even Poole fans can't stomach what Fraud gets up to and it was around then that his modus operandi kicked in (2004 to be exact, remember "self confessed cheat" Matt Ford). True fans can see the damage he does to the club and the sport as a whole, save for a few devote followers.

I think I'm correct in stating the Ford is the least successful Poole promoter in terms of bums on seats.

 

Great shame.

[Steve0 5,517]

Longer than a week is long term.

Maybe down Dorset way but in the real world it's not!

[stevebrum 6,821]

#prayingforbjarnesknee

[BWitcher 12,453]

BWitcher, please can you stop constantly whining about people walking away from the sport and Poole scamming continously because this is not the case as you have no evidence.

 

Whilst I believe a punishment should be handed out to Poole if in fact this ruling is true, but in truth we are going on hearsay and noone has actually provided any evidence that the injury most be 'long term' so if you can put your energies into finding that rule because that SCB rule website is dreadful and is like finding gold nuggets.

 

 

 

I really do think you live on a different planet to the rest of us.

 

Not even the staunchest Poole fans have tried to deny the rule.. yet you decide it's hearsay? Brilliant.

 

The rule has been quoted numerous times.

 

As for your ridiculous statement nobody has stopped attending the sport due to the pretty much annual scams then... well, words fail me.

[Daniel Smith 5,665]

Here's the rule again:

 

 

"16.3.4.1:- A 7-day window, prior to the scheduled date of the first EL Play-Offs will enable EL Clubs only
to replace long-term Injured riders, but not with riders in other EL Team Declarations."

 

Now, being sensible the wording "long-term" can be interpreted in two ways

1. Season ending from the date of the 7 day window
2. Been out of action for a period prior to the Play-Offs

"long-term", what does that mean? When creating rules surely there should be a figure allocated to that and to what side of the 7 day window the injury is to be classed as "long-term"?

 

There's also this rule:

 

"16.3.4:- No Team changes will be allowed after 28th August with the effective date being 31st August,
except for riders returning to the Team after injury."

 

This tells me that if things don't work out for Lindbäck and Andersen feels he's ready he can be reintroduced for the Play-Off Final if Poole make it.

 

The other issue regarding Lindbäck's average, as I've said previously I think that was fair and individual events can't be used as a comparative tool. League team averages only and within the regulations only the previous seasons figures (2015) could have been used.

Elitserien 2015 - 7.58

NICE Liga 2015 - 8.75 (2nd tier conversion x0.6) 5.25

2015 = 6.42

 

The only thing that has come up fishy for me is the Pedersen injury.

[waiheke1 4,295]

 

It's not me trying to dispute the definition of long term. The fact is unless long term is defined exactly, and the way you can ensure a rider is going to be injured for that time is defined, then it's basically an open invitation to be used by any team who want to replace any rider before the play offs.

If it was a legal case, in the absence of a defined definition of longterm they would look at the intent of the rule/law.

The intent here is surely to allow replacement of a rider who will be absent for the play offs. Given that play offs total a maximum 4 meetings over a few weeks, it would be fairy say that long term was designed to cover a rider missing the entirety of the play off period. Furthermore, I would suggest the definition of "injured" means "unfit to race speedway" and not "unfit to race speedway in the uk". I struggle to see any other interpretation being available.

[Bagpuss 10,781]

They should get themselves to Monmore tomorrow for a great meeting,they are only denying themselves.

Perhaps, but for many people a sport without properly enforced rules is pointless, it's the foundations upon which a proper competition is built. Weaken those and you weaken people's interest.

[Skidder1 7,637]

If it was a legal case, in the absence of a defined definition of longterm they would look at the intent of the rule/law.

The intent here is surely to allow replacement of a rider who will be absent for the play offs. Given that play offs total a maximum 4 meetings over a few weeks, it would be fairy say that long term was designed to cover a rider missing the entirety of the play off period. Furthermore, I would suggest the definition of "injured" means "unfit to race speedway" and not "unfit to race speedway in the uk". I struggle to see any other interpretation being available.

Except that the rule is a BSPA/SCB rule for British speedway not Speedway in any/every country. Poole weren't allowed to permanently replace Andersen until 14th September (the start of the 7-day window) after they had ridden their final 5 league meetings using guests - something that the vast majority of fans complain about.

 

If Andersen's injury had happened one day earlier than the cut-off date for team changes, then the Poole team would have seen 3 maybe even 4 changes!! Poole tried to propose that the day after Hans' injury on 28th August but were turned down by BSPA.

[Ben91 1,743]

All the more reason for a squad system. Poole could have had both Andersen and Lindback in their squad for the whole year. Likewise Wolverhampton could have had Woffinden in their squad all season.

 

Sadly these things happen because the rules of Speedway in Britain are wishy washy, why not simply allow Lindback to sign for Poole replacing Andersen as injury cover. When Andersen returns to racing, as he did on Sunday, he also has to return to the Poole team and Lindback's cover stint is over. A rule book should be black and white, not open to different interpretations.

 

If Andersen is riding in Poland then he is declaring himself fit to race, if he wasn't sure about it then he should have sat out the rest of the season and just had some practice time somewhere to see how his hand was healing.

[Joe Beevers 207]

Here's the rule again:

 

 

"16.3.4.1:- A 7-day window, prior to the scheduled date of the first EL Play-Offs will enable EL Clubs only

to replace long-term Injured riders, but not with riders in other EL Team Declarations."

 

Now, being sensible the wording "long-term" can be interpreted in two ways

 

• Season ending from the date of the 7 day window
• Been out of action for a period prior to the Play-Offs

"long-term", what does that mean? When creating rules surely there should be a figure allocated to that and to what side of the 7 day window the injury is to be classed as "long-term"?

 

There's also this rule:

 

"16.3.4:- No Team changes will be allowed after 28th August with the effective date being 31st August,

except for riders returning to the Team after injury."

 

This tells me that if things don't work out for Lindbäck and Andersen feels he's ready he can be reintroduced for the Play-Off Final if Poole make it.

 

The other issue regarding Lindbäck's average, as I've said previously I think that was fair and individual events can't be used as a comparative tool. League team averages only and within the regulations only the previous seasons figures (2015) could have been used.

Elitserien 2015 - 7.58

NICE Liga 2015 - 8.75 (2nd tier conversion x0.6) 5.25

2015 = 6.42

 

The only thing that has come up fishy for me is the Pedersen injury.

So that clears that up. Myself and BWitcher were originally correct but I must admit, I thought Steve Shovlar was so adamant with the rule that I doubted myself and I hadn't seen the rule before Danny Smith kindly posted it, so thank you Danny.

 

So Poole definitely in the wrong.

 

Now the strange situation has occurred that Lindback is now actually unavailable.

 

This in some small way to be honest levels up the playing field.

 

Actually BWitcher, I was the first person who suggested the punishments should be handed as I was 95% sure correct before Mr Shovlar doubted it me which in all honesty is fair enough as his comments most times have been honest whilst yours imo have been more biased, but I havent the foggiest anymore who to believe or not on this forum anymore after only recently joining and I didn't see you actually stating any punishment yourself, so I question your own loyalty about being a Wolverhampton fan which I hope you are or another crazed Gavan type fan who follows Poole around for the sake of it.

 

But all seems cleared up now.

[Knightime 33]

Having worked with Employment Law for a lot of my working life it never ceases to amaze me that law makers (and in this case rule makers) so frequently include terms which are open to interpretation which results in no definitive answer being available without the benefit of case law.

 

So argue as much as you like - you do not have the answer

 

The answer will become clear based on case law - what the BSPA accept as long term will become the definition. So if this goes as it is with no sanction on Poole - then 2 weeks is long term. I suspect that Poole really did not expect Hans to try a return so quickly and its a mystery why he did as it seems he has accepted it was an error.

 

The real solution would be a World Governing body definition which would prevent a rider involved in the use of this type of rule riding in any WGB sanctioned competition.

 

Of course livliehood and income are probably a major part of this issue (the early return) and therefore maybe a WGB riders injury support fund would help to prevent riders attempting to come back too soon - if that were the case the WGB would I am sure require their own medical examination to determine the seriousness of the injury - but that would require joined up organisation which sadly speedway seems to be lacking.

 

And anyway - what would you do with your lives if it was all straightforward and unquestionable