mikebv 10,297 Posted August 26, 2021 1 hour ago, TotallyHonestJohn said: Mike Mike Mike Grading was proposed for the 6 man team format 5 year back where each team could have 1 grade A rider or 2 grade B riders amongst other permutations but that wasn't acceptable because two promotions had two riders each in the Band A group and weren't prepared to share because they wanted to put out the absolute strongest team they could in the hope of trying to win something regardless if they are humping weaker opposition each week... Speedway isn't Football however promoters have that football mentality but if a club is getting all the best riders and the opposition can't get anyone to put up a reasonable opposition for competitive racing then regardless fans get fed up. Now this is all well and good when there is a requirement for say 140 riders and the pool of talent available is say 540 riders however when the pool only consists of 100 riders the whole premise falls apart... Not wanting to pick on any clubs but there are teams with 3 recognised riders who could and should be filling a No 1 slot in most Championship teams yet this race to the bottom to spend as much as possible to get the absolute strongest 1 to 7 possible is an exercise in bancrupcy and it's ridiculous... I am not a big fan of American Sport however even those massive franchise's see the need for competitive meetings and contests and undertake a draft pick giving the weakest teams first pick of the best up an coming talent and unless Speedway adopts something similar on team selection promoters will always be in the rat race to the bottom... Even football have tried to achieve some sort parity across clubs with the financial fair play league... although it doesnt seem to work that well but thats football where clubs get 50,000 crowds and this is speedway where promoters get a hard on when they get a crowd over a 1000... Home fans generally don't come when they see sides that they percieve as having no chance from the start of the season and sides with three big hitters a reserve who should be a second string and two second strings rolling up who are knocking on the door of becoming a third heat leader it's a joke... Oh everyone builds to 40 points (or so) and it should balance out but we all know the reasons why it doesn't... Riders getting a ridiculous guarentee that clubs can't afford with promotions losing money hand over fist year after year and the lesson is never learned... The whole thing is corrupt from top to bottom and the big idea they will be working on this year and next to save speedway is rolling out the second rising star reserve which we all know the reasons why this is a good idea however it is just another fiddle and something that clubs try to manipulate... and why does this process need to come with 15 pages of rules ffs? I'm not often a supporter of old Len Silver but I am with him 100% when he says why do we need to have so many complicated rules in a sport that is basically 4 guys racing round a track for 4 laps and a minutes entertainment... Someone recently mentioned a circus of a show at a track well if they need some clowns I'm sure the BSPL have pleanty to go round if they are looking for any more... Here's a thing I'm with the IOW and how about a breakaway league... tell the mafia who are running the sport at present to poke it... Having been through this with Workington all Eastie fans have my heartfelt condolences at their loss... let's hope unlike Workington Eastie can make a come back and this is only a temporary blip... Regards THJ And all to try and win competitions rendered pretty much meaningless by their very own operational model and their actions... The saying often used for this kind of ludicrous situation is... "You really couldn't make this s**t up could you?'... Well, unfortunately for British Speedway, someone actually must have... And, incredibly, others then agreed with them.... 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
woofers 467 Posted August 26, 2021 As I mentioned earlier, I’m not sure Eastbourne were the most popular promotion at the BSPL, and probably haven’t received a Christmas Card from them for some years. Ian Jordan has on more than one occasion mentioned his gratitude to Glasgow for single handedly siding with them on the 2021 team building / points issues, so that probably put their noses out of joint to start with. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TotallyHonestJohn 3,078 Posted August 26, 2021 (edited) 58 minutes ago, enotian said: I'm wondering if Birmingham and Newcastle were given a bail out by the BSPL, Eastbourne asked but the pot was empty?? Or maybe because Eastbourne has a much more attractive 'asset' base than those two. Couldn't they just sell Tom Brennan to the mega rich to raise some cash.... ...or do they just now 'own' him by default. This won't be popular but I have to say weren't Eastbourne one of the teams that insisted on retaining their 2020 line up in 2021 even though there was no precedent or legal requirement to do so. When it was obvious that was going to mean there wasn;t going to be enough riders to make all of the teams competitive. A team they then appear to have been unable to afford. Madness. No need to wonder neither Brum nor Newcastle were offered a bail out they were left to get on with it... sink or swim... Eastie unfortunately sank... and this won't be believed but I think Eastie have protected their asset base but more may come out later on that one.. and how much do you think Brennan is worth... 10 20 30k and are you are assuming that the debts are less than these figures and who in the current environment could afford to buy him... and you are again assuming that the guys promoting the spot own the assets? Have they not just covered the bond paid the bills and run it as a franchise so to speak... There is more to this debacle IMHO than meets the eye... but I doubt any of us mere plebs will find out the true picture... That's why I feel there is still some hope for Eastie to rise like a Phoenix next year... Regards THJ Edited August 26, 2021 by TotallyHonestJohn Missed out word 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TotallyHonestJohn 3,078 Posted August 26, 2021 1 hour ago, iainb said: Been thinking about the Eastbourne closure... why was it different to what's happened at Birmingham & Newcastle? Both of those were given opportunities to continue, fixtures rearranged to bring forward attractive opposition and go fund me pages setup. Eastboune, fixtures cancelled, press blackout and then closure! This was rumbling on longer than the two you quote and both Brum and Newcastle had to give the BSPL certain guarentee's with checks and balances put in place for them to follow and the issues were only temporary to a certain degree and brought on by Covid Covid rules and demanding councils and landlords outwith their controls. Eastie on the other hand I would suggest played down their problems until the issue became so massive all they could do is blow thier brains out... if the BSPL had jumped on them from the start it may not have come to this... nievity all round... If they had cut two of the three big earners out of their team who were on guaranteed wages and put two riders in on realistic points money again they might not have been in this predicament... yes Eastie had a very competitive team but it has ultimately cost them... big time... Regards THJ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hackett 220 Posted August 26, 2021 People in the know will be able to answer this better than I BUT recall Len Silver being interviewed at Arlington earlier this year and stated that riders are no longer assets plus teams don't have the finances to purchase riders like they previously did. So if you are Eastbourne and Brennan is your asset , it is no longer possible to sell him to Belle Vue or Ipswich Witches for example. In terms of Eastbourne wanting the same team as the cancelled team - I still think that was an honourable thing to do although if giving riders guarantees and Premiership wage levels is true that was never going to work. In terms of presentation it is difficult the facilities at most tracks are no better than 2nd tier non league football grounds. PA systems are dire. Currently I would work it around that no meeting should run longer than 90 minutes - if no crashes or stoppages. Break it into 4-4-4-3 heat quarters and riders ready for the next race immediately + put on 2 mins as soon as riders leave the track so that the racing is nigh on continual for the 4xheat quarters. If a tapes infringement etc straight round to the start none of this sitting at the pit gate and refuelling, having a chat and taking time for a couple of selfies - 2 mins should already be on so the racing should flow quickly. Track grading can take place between the quarters. It could mean on some occasions the main meeting is done and dusted in just over an hour - then so be it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orion 7,615 Posted August 26, 2021 4 hours ago, mikebv said: Was never going to happen.. The council were not going to close down a multi million pound tax payer funded facility that they had just opened.. Dont matter how much they pay for it if no one is willing to promote it plus is can be used for other events ... The bottom line Morton and Gordon nearly ended Belle Vue speedway and left with a black mark against there name Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Piotr Pyszny 206 Posted August 27, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, Hackett said: In terms of presentation it is difficult the facilities at most tracks are no better than 2nd tier non league football grounds. You're being extremely generous, comparing favourably speedway's existing venues to second tier non-league football grounds. Are you suggesting (possibly the new, new Belle Vue apart) speedway offers facilities on a par with, say, AFC Fylde, Boston United, Curzon Ashton, Dartford, Hereford United, Kidderminster Harriers, Maidstone United or York City? Many speedway stadia - even the tidier, smarter ones - wouldn't look out of place in non-league football's third or fourth tiers! Edited August 27, 2021 by Piotr Pyszny 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Halifaxtiger 5,318 Posted August 27, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, TotallyHonestJohn said: Here's a thing I'm with the IOW and how about a breakaway league... tell the mafia who are running the sport at present to poke it... Having been through this with Workington all Eastie fans have my heartfelt condolences at their loss... let's hope unlike Workington Eastie can make a come back and this is only a temporary blip... Regards THJ Given the huge success of Isle of Wight Speedway (even allowing for exceptional circumstances) you might not be the only one with that view. From what I am hearing, the circumstances of the closure of Eastbourne are very different to that of Workington. 11 hours ago, screm said: Eastbourne can now be added to the list of teams we have lost since the turn of the Century, just over twenty years ago. How many teams will come to the tapes for 2022 Coventry Hull Oxford Newport Swindon Lakeside Exeter Stoke Workington Reading Rye House St Austell Buxton I think there are grounds for optimism where Eastbourne is concerned and that this closure may well only be temporary. The stadium, I am assured, is going nowhere (unlike about half of the above) with stock cars and bangers still pulling in nigh on capacity attendances. In addition, the joint owners of Arlington are Eric and Margaret Dugard (the late Bob's brother and wife) and the family have a strong history of supporting, running and even competing in speedway. Edited August 27, 2021 by Halifaxtiger 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marko 956 Posted August 27, 2021 Will affect Kent Kings too, they have lost Lakeside, Rye House and now Eastbourne, all clubs within reasonable travelling distance for away fans. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cityrebel 2,960 Posted August 27, 2021 Just now, marko said: Will affect Kent Kings too, they have lost Lakeside, Rye House and now Eastbourne, all clubs within reasonable travelling distance for away fans. They might gain some. I saw a few Eastbourne fans there last Tuesday. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SuperSpeed 24 Posted August 27, 2021 8 hours ago, Hackett said: Currently I would work it around that no meeting should run longer than 90 minutes - if no crashes or stoppages. This is meant to be the case already, it's just that it's roundly ignored. Per the rulebook: In normal circumstances the time from the finish of a heat to the start of the next shall not exceed 4 minutes (including the 2 minute time allowance) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
old bob at herne bay 828 Posted August 27, 2021 Anyone with an interest in taking on promoting EB speedway under the auspices of the BSPL in the future has a few obstacles to overcome New airfence ( allegedly £35k) Agreeing a deal with the stadium owners - who will surely be apprehensive renting out to another speedway operation without some guarantee up front? Raising funds to lodge a bond with BSPL. Recruiting a team of riders who will trust the new owners for their wages. Setting out a business plan to just breakeven on that investment with a crowd of 600 will be a challenge. The more likely scenario is the stadium is sold and used to fund the Dugard’s pension fund .(and frankly who would blame them) For many years I always believed that Bob was the sole speedway supporter in the family that kept the club running through thick and thin. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimsboy 58 Posted August 27, 2021 28 minutes ago, old bob at herne bay said: Anyone with an interest in taking on promoting EB speedway under the auspices of the BSPL in the future has a few obstacles to overcome New airfence ( allegedly £35k) Agreeing a deal with the stadium owners - who will surely be apprehensive renting out to another speedway operation without some guarantee up front? Raising funds to lodge a bond with BSPL. Recruiting a team of riders who will trust the new owners for their wages. Setting out a business plan to just breakeven on that investment with a crowd of 600 will be a challenge. The more likely scenario is the stadium is sold and used to fund the Dugard’s pension fund .(and frankly who would blame them) For many years I always believed that Bob was the sole speedway supporter in the family that kept the club running through thick and thin. Ian Jordon been on Sussex Radio saying investors have come forward to him and Les Fineing and be looking to start new company for start next season. Obviously it won't be their company running it i presume. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SSL84 541 Posted August 27, 2021 34 minutes ago, old bob at herne bay said: Anyone with an interest in taking on promoting EB speedway under the auspices of the BSPL in the future has a few obstacles to overcome New airfence ( allegedly £35k) Agreeing a deal with the stadium owners - who will surely be apprehensive renting out to another speedway operation without some guarantee up front? Raising funds to lodge a bond with BSPL. Recruiting a team of riders who will trust the new owners for their wages. Setting out a business plan to just breakeven on that investment with a crowd of 600 will be a challenge. The more likely scenario is the stadium is sold and used to fund the Dugard’s pension fund .(and frankly who would blame them) For many years I always believed that Bob was the sole speedway supporter in the family that kept the club running through thick and thin. Bob you are way of the mark with the price for a new air fence for a track the size of eastbourne it would be just under 20k. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iainb 5,024 Posted August 27, 2021 (edited) 11 hours ago, Hackett said: recall Len Silver being interviewed at Arlington earlier this year and stated that riders are no longer assets plus teams don't have the finances to purchase riders like they previously did. So if you are Eastbourne and Brennan is your asset , it is no longer possible to sell him to Belle Vue or Ipswich Witches for example. 11 hours ago, TotallyHonestJohn said: I think Eastie have protected their asset base but more may come out later on that one.. and how much do you think Brennan is worth... 10 20 30k and are you are assuming that the debts are less than these figures and who in the current environment could afford to buy him... and you are again assuming that the guys promoting the spot own the assets? I still don't get the club asset system, Gordon Pairman kindly explained it on the Club Asstes thread a few weeks ago... but why are riders "assets" of clubs? Do they sell their soul to the devil by accepting a big bung to become a club asset? Back in the day some riders used to own their own contracts and even buy their contracts back from clubs. The riders are self employed, I assume they run limited companies and in effect do contract work. I am a contractor myself but I've never sold my career away to a single employer who then goes on to charge other companies for the use of my services. I just don't get it. Surely the only way you could be an "asset" is if you were on PAYE, like footballers... but I suspect that may be illegal if ever tested properly. Edited August 27, 2021 by iainb 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites