Roger Jacobs 554 Posted August 31, 2022 3 minutes ago, iainb said: Just because it's been 7 man teams for as long as I can remember doesn't mean it always has to be that way. You alter the model to suit the circumstances, if there aren't enough riders to run a credible league you go to 6 or even 5 man teams... it ain't rocket science British Speedway has been shrinking to fit for a few years now ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Haza 1,774 Posted August 31, 2022 2 minutes ago, Roger Jacobs said: The British Final decision was not ridiculous, it was correct - they actually followed the relevant SCB Regulation. What was ridiculous was why run it so close to Cardiff GP ? If it had been run early July and weather was bad plenty of time to restage it before Cardiff 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,337 Posted August 31, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, iainb said: Just because it's been 7 man teams for as long as I can remember doesn't mean it always has to be that way. You alter the model to suit the circumstances, if there aren't enough riders to run a credible league you go to 6 or even 5 man teams... it ain't rocket science Spot on... And remember, even in the "halcyon days" when the tracks were often rammed with spectators, most tracks only had two or three fully professional riders... And that was only in the top league... One or two "superstars" and another "potential superstar/wunderkind" was what only the very top clubs mainly had... The rest of the riders making up the teams had "day jobs" and were very pleased to earn quite a bit more than a weeks pay from that job in just one night riding Speedway... Ride 20 times a month and you could have half a years salary every 30 days or so.. Do that from March to October and then work through the winter, or go on tour to Austalia if you were a full time pro, and a very, very good living could be had... Now we have "professionals" barely out of school, who cannot even hold down a place in the Championship, needing paying to fund their dreams... What a ridiculous system to have designed... Edited August 31, 2022 by mikebv 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lefty 1,268 Posted August 31, 2022 I'm sure an exclusive agreement with "Trotters Tire-Tanic Homogonised Tyre Company" will help the 'BritSpeedProm' Cartel in ensuring the sport turns the corner! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
old bob at herne bay 828 Posted August 31, 2022 Seems like the sport has entered a new era…. Exploding tyres (P boro), setting light to the tracks (Glasgow) added the the reasons I stopped going endless delays and teams of gusts and r/r , my only surprise is that there are people still paying £20 each plus travel to watch the smouldering embers of a once great sport. Nothing I read would tempt me back to watch. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Humphrey Appleby 13,970 Posted August 31, 2022 3 hours ago, iainb said: Just because it's been 7 man teams for as long as I can remember doesn't mean it always has to be that way. You alter the model to suit the circumstances, if there aren't enough riders to run a credible league you go to 6 or even 5 man teams... it ain't rocket science If you reduce the size of the teams to fit the supposed number of riders, then you reduce opportunities which in turn means more potential riders simply won't bother with the sport. It simply becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy and the rider pool will just continue to shrink. 6-rider teams are just about viable for a league match with 14-15 heats. 5-rider teams would require riders to not only have too many programmed rides, but too closely spaced together as well. Almost certain that some riders would also have to have two programmed rides on the trot, which does nothing for timekeeping. Teams have been 7 riders for much of the sport's history (although there have been 8 and 6-rider teams at times) because it's an optimal number for various reasons, including the possibility to run rider replacement. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrismorton 332 Posted August 31, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Roger Jacobs said: The British Final decision was not ridiculous, it was correct - they actually followed the relevant SCB Regulation. The decision made in that final was shocking..Ellis should never have rode at Cardiff this season that was last year's news..and how did that work out for him?..this is only a small slice of the pie that contributes to my original point.. British speedway has become one of the most tinpot sports in the country. Edited August 31, 2022 by chrismorton 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Roger Jacobs 554 Posted August 31, 2022 24 minutes ago, chrismorton said: The decision made in that final was shocking..Ellis should never have rode at Cardiff this season that was last year's news..and how did that work out for him?..this is only a small slice of the pie that contributes to my original point.. British speedway has become one of the most tinpot sports in the country. The Regulations state clearly that if the British Final is abandoned and a restating is planned, then no result is declared. The BSPA had to nominate a Wild Card for the British GP. Their policy is to nominate the British Champion, who is Adam Ellis. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ragdoll64 648 Posted August 31, 2022 1 hour ago, old bob at herne bay said: Seems like the sport has entered a new era…. Exploding tyres (P boro), setting light to the tracks (Glasgow) added the the reasons I stopped going endless delays and teams of gusts and r/r , my only surprise is that there are people still paying £20 each plus travel to watch the smouldering embers of a once great sport. Nothing I read would tempt me back to watch. Maybe you’re not reading things correctly……there was no setting light to the track at Glasgow……. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Roger Jacobs 554 Posted August 31, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, old bob at herne bay said: Seems like the sport has entered a new era…. Exploding tyres (P boro), setting light to the tracks (Glasgow) added the the reasons I stopped going endless delays and teams of gusts and r/r , my only surprise is that there are people still paying £20 each plus travel to watch the smouldering embers of a once great sport. Nothing I read would tempt me back to watch. I think there's only one Francis Gusts, rather than a whole team of them Injuries happen, and guests are a necessary way around the problem - it's been like that throughout the modern era of British speedway, i.e. 1965 onwards. Edited August 31, 2022 by Roger Jacobs 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,337 Posted August 31, 2022 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Roger Jacobs said: I think there's only one Francis Gusts, rather than a whole team of them Injuries happen, and guests are a necessary way around the problem - it's been like that throughout the modern era of British speedway, i.e. 1965 onwards. When top riders rode in teams and often scored 30% to 40% of a teams score, and more sometimes, with many running 10 point plus averages, with few bonus points included, and often took five rides a match away from home as a Tac Sub, you could maybe make an argument they needed replacing with a rider of similar talent... Especially in the days of 13 Heats and 40 points won you a match, one world class rider could contribute you 15 so was vital to the team.. Nowadays with much less of a difference in the top fives you could easily deliver a fit for purpose RR faciltly to reduce guests numbers.. If you wanted to obviously... Edited August 31, 2022 by mikebv Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Derrickn 56 Posted August 31, 2022 2 hours ago, ragdoll64 said: Maybe you’re not reading things correctly……there was no setting light to the track at Glasgow……. Think it was Plymouth where they set fire to the straw while trying to dry the track. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cowboy cookie returns? 748 Posted August 31, 2022 47 minutes ago, mikebv said: When top riders rode in teams and often scored 30% to 40% of a teams score, and more sometimes, with many running 10 point plus averages, with few bonus points included, and often took five rides a match away from home as a Tac Sub, you could maybe make an argument they needed replacing with a rider of similar talent... Especially in the days of 13 Heats and 40 points won you a match, one world class rider could contribute you 15 so was vital to the team.. Nowadays with much less of a difference in the top fives you could easily deliver a fit for purpose RR faciltly to reduce guests numbers.. If you wanted to obviously... A fit for purpose rider replacement facility would massively improve the situation. As I've said many times before the old national league had a pretty much zero guest policy in the late 80s injuries had to be covered using rider replacement or promotion of a member of the clubs junior side into the senior team. If using rider replacement a number 8 had to be named. If the will is there it's something that could easily be done however I doubt it is. If you go all the way back 32 years to 1990 the sport has spent the whole timing trying to prop up & keep some form of British/Elite league now premiership going. The NL at the end of 1990 was broken up partly to keep a 9 team BL going that was rife with missing riders & the use of guests that was seeing dwindling crowd numbers. The NL on the other hand was a well run league that was seeing god gates & in the case of my local club Ipswich increased attendance dispute dropping down a league at the end of 88. To try & get the sport going over here again have one league let's call it the British League of no more that 16 clubs made up of the current championship & premiership clubs. The remaining clubs hopefully including the Isle of Wight form the second tier the National league. As much as I did like guests & doubling up they would need to stay short term. But with restrictions doubling up would only be permitted for the riders in the reserve positions of the British League clubs as named at the start of the season. Each British League club would need to name a squad of 10 riders at the start of the season using riders from the National league to cover for missing riders & injuries. Guests would only be permitted in the British League if your number 1 was missing any other missing riders would be covered with rider replacement or using your squad. The National league clubs would be able to use the riders who start the season at reserve with a British League club. These rules would be in place for 3 years before they could be reviewed & the British League would be limited to a maximum of 16 clubs for the duration of the 3 years. The cost of participation in the sport would be addressed immediately with the induction of rev limiters in year one before moving to standard upright equipment from year 2. This would hopefully allow for a better spectacle for the spectators reduced costs for the riders & clubs while making it safer by running equipment that is suitable for the majority of UK circuits. After year three the expansion of the British League would be permitted if there were tracks wanting to join & only if there were the right number of available riders of the correct standard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ch958 2,396 Posted August 31, 2022 good ideas. If costs are not controlled in ANY business its soon curtains. I have a feeling however that the one league thing won't be allowed, people seem to want an 'elite' league, even though its anything but that, myself I think one league the way forward. Heat leaders who currently double up would have more meetings and more chance of high scoring in them thus making up for lost earnings doubling up/ down. Allied to lower machinery costs it should be win win. Who has the will/ energy to make that happen though? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,337 Posted August 31, 2022 1 hour ago, cowboy cookie returns? said: A fit for purpose rider replacement facility would massively improve the situation. As I've said many times before the old national league had a pretty much zero guest policy in the late 80s injuries had to be covered using rider replacement or promotion of a member of the clubs junior side into the senior team. If using rider replacement a number 8 had to be named. If the will is there it's something that could easily be done however I doubt it is. If you go all the way back 32 years to 1990 the sport has spent the whole timing trying to prop up & keep some form of British/Elite league now premiership going. The NL at the end of 1990 was broken up partly to keep a 9 team BL going that was rife with missing riders & the use of guests that was seeing dwindling crowd numbers. The NL on the other hand was a well run league that was seeing god gates & in the case of my local club Ipswich increased attendance dispute dropping down a league at the end of 88. To try & get the sport going over here again have one league let's call it the British League of no more that 16 clubs made up of the current championship & premiership clubs. The remaining clubs hopefully including the Isle of Wight form the second tier the National league. As much as I did like guests & doubling up they would need to stay short term. But with restrictions doubling up would only be permitted for the riders in the reserve positions of the British League clubs as named at the start of the season. Each British League club would need to name a squad of 10 riders at the start of the season using riders from the National league to cover for missing riders & injuries. Guests would only be permitted in the British League if your number 1 was missing any other missing riders would be covered with rider replacement or using your squad. The National league clubs would be able to use the riders who start the season at reserve with a British League club. These rules would be in place for 3 years before they could be reviewed & the British League would be limited to a maximum of 16 clubs for the duration of the 3 years. The cost of participation in the sport would be addressed immediately with the induction of rev limiters in year one before moving to standard upright equipment from year 2. This would hopefully allow for a better spectacle for the spectators reduced costs for the riders & clubs while making it safer by running equipment that is suitable for the majority of UK circuits. After year three the expansion of the British League would be permitted if there were tracks wanting to join & only if there were the right number of available riders of the correct standard. With a No1 missing, just let the other 2 HL's take all his rides up to a max of seven per rider.. That way they can take 2 each of his rides, take their four, and still do Ht 15.. The manager may choose to not do that and instead let any rider in form do the same... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
