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would have gone on to be the greatest rider ever

no but he will be this year

Reading the forum and the comments re Roberts interview in Speedway Star. I am not giving my opinion on it. However some facts my help you. I have done an approx. costing for a rider doing one UK league. Naturally a rider doubling up, some costs would increase or decrease or not exist. These figures are from my experience for an annual cost to a rider. 2 bikes/engines @ £8000 each = £16000 spread over 2 years = £8000 Spares £4000 (surprising how many spares needed in a season and that’s without a blown engine cost) Other equipment - helmet/goggles/tools £1000 Oils/Lubricants/bike cleaning materials etc. £500 Van hire 8 months £2400 Mechanic £4500 Flights 50% of cost £3000 Airport travel costs £500 Budgeting travel Rain off expenses ( no income ) £1000 Fuel van £800 Engine servicing £3000 Insurance van £800 ( many mechanics under 25 ) Injury Insurance rider £400 Sundry misc. expenses £1000 (always unexpected costs) Total £30900 These are the costs, looking back through them it would be easy to increase some. But this gives a ball park figure. Naturally some costs are off set by sponsors supplying their goods which a rider uses. But it is still a cost and a rider needs equipment sponsors as well as cash sponsors. From this total cost, now you can can calculate how much a rider needs to earn per point or plus get sponsor deals to make it all pay. Certain some of you will argue these figures. That’s your opinion, but as for 5 years I’ve being paying invoices I know these figures are a good ball park figure. I am just giving factual figures - this is not my opinion of what’s right or wrong. I will leave it to you to do your own calculations and come up with what ever view you wish.

Where have I said he’s on the same planet as Leigh, all I’ve said is he rides the Abbey as well as Leigh. I’ve been lucky to see Leigh ride at Swindon for all of his career & he is the master of the Abbey, Morris is fast becoming a master in his own right......oh, I watched Darcy & he wasn’t bad.

I should imagine every Polish Extraleague club has looked at Morris. No takers. It’s the Championship. Kurtz rides Extraleague in 2018. Is Morris even riding Polish league 1? I have nothing against Morris but I doubt he will go any further than the level he is at right now. Perhaps a Schlein level, not quite a Davey Watt.

Gavan is only obsessed by Poole riders.

.....and a Wolverhampton heat leader (and reigning Australian champion) and a Belle Vue heat leader....but they don’t ride for Poole so they don’t get criticised do they!!!!!

I like this character of yours better DropaCog/FredFlange/Wibble/FledFlange. Still got the same issue with repeating the same phrases every other post, but this less intelligent, abusive alter-ego is a refreshing change.

How strange that a “new” poster makes these comments. It leads one to think he is someone in disguise. But regardless of that, there’s a thread in the international speedway section for the Aussie championships. It is an individual comp so very little to do with cluttering up the Poole threads. If you are a Belle Vue fan go celebrate Tungates win over there and leave this part so we can discuss just how good the 2018 Pirates team is shaping up.

Congratulations to Tungate and Fricke, first and third in the Australian Championship.

I think the Robert Lambert knocking has been done enough now. It's time to move on and look forward to the start of the season. And to the announcement of the final 4 riders.

£400 a point ?????? Lol

Isn't the solution to the disparity of wealth not a GB Super League but a Euro League (or in reality the richer teams joining the Polish League) I think the reality is the even the Polish and Swedish "Elite" leagues are not without financial problems and might welcome a new era which I think would represent the first genuine pan European sports league. Probably run/branded by a BSI/One Sport type organisation to administrate on team strength you'd hope it could attract decent media coverage. Eventually developed into a 16 team European league with the bulk of teams from Poland, Sweden and the UK it could eventually incorporate teams/franchises from other nations (Denmark, Germany, Czech Republic, even Russia) the 30 meeting regular season should provide enough fixtures for GP standard riders with the teams supplemented by those also riding in domestic leagues. Whilst the standard would be a little lower than the current Polish top division it would be an uplift on the current Premiership. Domestically in the UK there'd be a two league structure. One Championship standard (made up of those Premiership teams not in the Euro league and the current Championship teams) featuring those riders who wish to supplement Euro League racing and those riders based in the UK including youngsters from the National League.

Thanks for your information David, I don't doubt your honesty one bit. This more than anything illustrates just how much the sport has become too expensive and unsustainable. A sport where attendances struggle to reach 1500 it is ridiculous economics for a new rider to contemplate in participating. Top riders are expected to earn decent money which would more then cover those costs, but the majority of riders are less prominent and would struggle to make them ends meet. It is little wonder the riders need that amount to compete and also see why the promoters are flogging a dead horse. Many years ago, in conversation with Terry Betts when riding a 2 value Jawa, he said he purchased a new bike every year, keeping last years as a spare. After each meeting it was hosed down and the chain oiled. Additionally, after each month, the chain and tyres were replaced. He commented this would guarantee competitive equipment for the whole season. How things have changed!!! No the races weren't as fast but the enjoyment was just as good... We need new ideas to control those costs. David has just illustrated the outlay is way out of line....

Until Poole's first fixture of course.. You will then be weeping like a little 'un' prior to the meeting as you always do !

If said new non Brit has such a great chance of improving their average that just shows the original assessment has been set too low..... The league doesnt really need new 5 point and sub 5 point riders I would set entry level at min 6

SCB's thin veneer of intelligence is once more stripped away by his rancid and repugnant ageism. It's a familiar argument - "I know a pensioner who's well-off so every one of them must be." It's as intellectually and morally bankrupt as "All these foreigners are taking our jobs". I do wonder if he's got a problem with his parents or other elderly relatives, given the sick bitterness and prejudice he continually shows to the elderly. In another recent thread he came up with what were superficially intelligent comments about the way forward but which were invalidated by his comment "Stop pandering to the old, they'll be dead soon", or words to that effect. I'll leave you to consider for a moment just how repugnant that is. Don't be taken in by someone who is obsessed withe speedway rule book and averages. It doesn't make them intelligent, merely fixated. I had to correct him ages ago when he was spouting this regulation and that to point out that he was completely ignoring the key part of the rule book, the supplementary regulations which are issued during a season and regularly amend those rules., I remember SCB complaining about the car park at a certain track on the basis that it was damaging his very expensive car. Lovely chap. I'd park mine outside ;-) If people were singled out for such abuse on the grounds of race, gender or sexuality they would be rightly condemned by most reasonable people in society and in many cases prosecuted. So why is ageism allowed? Speedway may have an age profile that could do with reducing. The SCB's of this world would achieve that by making the sport hostile to the elderly and forcing them out on the basis that the young and 'cool' (i.e. his own perception of himself) are put off by the sight of geriatrics viciously sitting down because they can't stand up for two hours and callously drinking hot drinks from a flask because they know that the stuff on sale at the track is awful quality and overpriced. Shame on them! It's not the elderly that are the problem, it's the shallow, ignorant outlook of certain people at the other end of the age spectrum. Still, there's one consolation, given the modern trend to despise the old by the time he gets to be in that age group life's going to be pretty appalling for him. Yes I have attacked the poster, and I have not one iota of apology for doing this. I've posted some strong views on here over the years but they have all been based on a deep love of and concern for the sport, and not my ego. I had my brief spell in the spotlight and I can tell you I am much, much happier sitting quietly in the shadows now. When I see SCB's posts I see raw ego. I worked with a few TV technicians like him in the past and you would sometimes get those who developed appalling arrogance through working in the industry. I thought I'd seen the worst.......until now. I remember years back Sittingbourne getting their only away Conference League win at Newport. Almost everyone on the BSF were congratulating the then Crusaders on finally getting a win. One kid wasn't though. He went through every decision made in the match, every pass and incident, desperately trying to prove that the Kent side hadn't deserved their win. Ever since then I've been waiting for SCB to grow up. Seems like I've got a longer to go. Still, I'll probably be dead first, eh? Rob McCaffery - aged 60 and expecting the basic state pension only, if that when I can finally afford to retire. You see, instead of building up a career I spent too much time with speedway. I'm now partially disabled so have to have a seat at a track even if it's a folding one which SCB so despises. After 46 years of course I don't deserve a small concession on the admission in my advancing old age.....It would be nice to be able to enjoy the sport in my final years without having to put up with prejudice from this shallow clown.

Should Speedway ditch the family sport tag and go for the dirty, dangerous, raw sport tag? I think probably so!

Pretty much sums it up. It's how many feel, who have either given up on the sport or who only go because of the company you keep rather than the spectacle you see.

After several seasons of financial crisis and lower wages, good times are returning back to the Polish EkstraLiga – reports website sports.pl.In the recent article published in Poland's top sport newspaper, its author speculates on the EkstraLiga top earners in the 2018 season. The list looks like this. Tai Woffinden (Wrocław and England) 1.9 million PLN or around £404K ( at the current rate of exchange ) After six years spent in Wrocław, Woffinden became a symbol of this club. Promoters and supporters have become very attached to the British rider . In order to keep him at home, they have been ready to put down any money. The club and sponsors around it are spending a fortune not only for the contract, but also to fund his appearance in the Grand Prix series. In addition to Monster, all of Woffinden's biggest sponsors are the companies associated in one way or the other with the Wroclaw club . If Woffinden had changed the club, he would be left virtually with no funds for the Grand Prix. He cannot count on his compatriots with whom he has been in dispute with for a year. At the beginning of October, Woffinden had several talks with Toruń promoters. However, people in Wrocław have noticed it in time, and following their offer, talks with Toruń were completed. It is interesting to note that in Wrocław, they have quite a peculiar concept, because the earnings of the top two riders, Tai Woffinden and Maciej Janowski, are even three times higher than those of Andrzej Lebedev and Vaclav Milik. Thanks to this, their promoters are able to balance the budget. The emerging stars from other countries can only be satisfied with the prestige (i.e.riding for Wroclaw) and wait for the end of their first "incentive" contracts. When Vaclav Milik in 2014 signed a long-term contract with Wroclaw he was only an up and coming young rider in the Polish lower division. If he was now a free rider , he could even count on a two-time higher wage. That's what happened to Szymon Woźniak. In Wroclaw, even as the individual Polish champion he could count on just over half a million PLN (around £107K). When the Wroclaw promotion heard what offer he got from Gorzów, they quickly began looking for someone else. Jason Doyle (Toruń and Australia) 1.8 million PLN, or £383K It was by far THE transfer of the season. The world champion tried to deceive Zielona Gora promotion for a long time. He wanted them to spend nearly two million PLN for a year's contract. In the new club, Torun, he got a lot of money (650,000 PLN, or £138K) just for signing. An additional amount will go to his account once Torun ] wins the League or at least a place on the rostrum . For every point he will paid as much as Chris Holder was in the previous season, that is 5.5 thousand PLN, (or £1.7K). In Toruń, they argue that he is an extremely valuable rider whose presence will positively influence the whole team. The compatriot's help may be needed especially by Chris and Jack Holders. Doyle has good reason to be satisfied, because as yet he has not earned this kind of money in Poland. Last season he earned less than 1.2 million (or £255K) from Zielona Gora. This year they offered him a small increase, plus a much smaller amount for the signature. It seems that in the new season he will be even more effective, because in the past, his priority was to win the world championship. Jarosław Hampel (Leszno and Poland) 1.75 million PLN (£372K) As the president of Unia Leszno admitted, both sides agreed terms in 20 minutes. Negotiations took place before Zielona Gora's last league match . Hampel wanted to leave and return to his old ground (Leszno). Thanks to the huge amount for the signature (600,000 zlotys), Hampel after three years returns to the top earners. The last contract in Zielona Gora was one of the lowest in his career. All because the promotion, and he himself had doubts whether he would be able to get back in the top form after his nasty injury . Eventually, last season he managed to earn about 1.2 million PLN (£255K). This time there were no problems in the negotiations. The increase will be large enough so that the rider can confidently plan a return to the Grand Prix. Emil Sayfutdinov (Leszno & Russia) 1.7 million PLN (£361.7K) For the first time in some years, he signed a two-year contract, and that tells a lot about his relations with Leszno promotion. As it turned out, the Grand Prix did not affect his form in the Ekstraliga . For years, his contract has been for a similar amount, with the difference that until now it was enough to be the top-earning rider in Poland. This time he found the conquerors not only in other clubs, but also in his own team. The Russian will not have any problems with this, because he is considered to be a rider that cooperates with his colleagues. A strong Unia Leszno team, similarly as in the case of Hampel, may cause his average to decrease slightly. Before this season, he had offers from Toruń and Grudziądz. From the first city he does not have very good memories, and Grudziadz offer was not able to compete with the offer that was given to him by Leszno. Leon Madsen (Częstochowa and Denmark) 1.6 million PLN (£340K) If he maintains his form of a lifetime from the previous season, and Czestochowa are promoted to play-offs, it will be his record season. In Częstochowa, he was supposed to get a contract worth 400,000 PLN (£85K) for the signature and as much as 6,000 PLN (£1.28K) for each point scored. The club, however, deny that they spent that amount. However, it is still much less than the Dane himself wanted at the beginning of the negotiations. Every year he talks almost with all EkstraLiga clubs and puts on the tables proposals for a contract containing sums that are not real. In Zielona Góra this year, he wanted half a million PLN for the signature and six thousand PLN per point . He traveled to Tarnów with a similar offer. There, they were giving him a contract with 100,000 PLN less than the original one. The same amount he finally agreed with Czestochowa, where he can count on four additional appearances in case of the team promotion to the play-offs. Niels Kristian Iversen (Toruń and Denmark) 1.5 million PLN (£319K) Another rider who benefited greatly from the Toruń offers. In his new club, he agreed 500,000 PLN (£106K) for the signature and 5,000 PLN (£1.06K) for each point scored. This can be topped up with bonuses for the place in the top three teams in the League and the Polish team championship. For years, the Dane has been seen as the EkstraLiga solid scorer, and the next season should be similar. Compared to the previous season, he can earn about 250,000 PLN (£53,2K) more. Gorzow tried to keep him, but did not want to top the amount from previous seasons. Bartosz Zmarzlik (Gorzów and Poland) 1.4 millionPLN (297.8K) For the second year in a row he is the best EkstraLiga rider . And yet, he cannot count on large amounts for his signature. In spite of this, against the background of other Polish riders he has done very well. The Gorzow promotion must regard him as the apple in their eyes, because Zmarzlik is a guarantee of full terraces. After this coming season, his contract comes to an end ,and if he plays it right, he can become the best-paid rider in the EkstraLiga . For Gorzow he is worth even more than 2 million PLN (£425.5K). The only question is whether there will be a club that will afford him and whether he will want to put his own club against the wall. The increase in his wages is guaranteed anyway. 8. Janusz Kołodziej (Leszno and Poland) 1.4 million PLN (£297.8K) He lost financially moving from Tarnów to Leszno, because in his hometown club he could count on the generous support of the most powerful sponsors. For years, he has been one of the most valuable riders in the EkstraLiga . He does not ride in foreign leagues and he devotes all his attention for the league matches in Poland. He gets about 500,000 PLN (£106K) for the signature.

Protected at 5?He rides against the same members of the oppositions top 5 the same amount of times as Doyle and all number ones do.The only difference between the 1+5 is the number 1 rides against the no.6 once and the no.5 rides against the no.7 once.And between Kurtz and Morris you wouldn't expect any of those two to be beaten by a no. 6 or 7.

“Poole fans happy with Kurtz. Belle Vue fans happy with Tungate and a saving of the best part of two points. Who is the best deal?”

Easier rides how many times did he ride with Doyle ?? and he never ever looked for his partner Morris now can move on and be a proper no 1 Kurtz i rate highly but Morris and Fricke are better riders at this moment.

time will tell, but I think Chris holder will have a higher average than Morris

It is very sad to see it like this, although even it is all still fixable while there is still hope. The saddest thing and what really is hard to take if this is the end of Brandon Stadium is that we should have never finished like this, it deserved a huge send off, we deserved to be able to enjoy the last meeting and sad as it sounds but say goodbye. I walked out after the last stock car meeting and thought how devistated I'd be if the deal hadn't been thrashed out a few months earlier, little did I know that the stock car meeting was possibly the final laps to be completed. So very sad for all of us Coventry fans and all fans of speedway.

One of the best and as ever from you,fairest posts on the thread. It is a reasonable topic to hold.It is fair to ask why a certain group in society receive such a benefit across the board.I mean a millionaire pensioner gets in at a reduced price,not only for speedway,whereas someone of say 30 years old who is working in a poorly paid job has to pay full whack.We even get,although I guess it was tongue in check,someone saying kids should also pay.Students also often get reduced prices,but some students are sons and daughters of millionaires and some even millionaires in their own right.The fair way would be to have people pay at the level their bank balance allows,but is impossible to police. You do also point out that some,like your friends think,maybe rightly, that reductions for pensioners are has more to do with recognition of their contribution to society.Maybe that was one of the reasons years ago to do with those who fought for the country etc.But a lot of those benefit scroungers from the 70s are now pensioners,who hardly contributed a thing to the country.If they take their reduction away,as you say,regardless of their wealth,they won't go.Rather like some of these ex-riders,who maybe turned out half a dozen times for a club won't go unless they get in for nowt!!!

Ben Wilson would be a good signing .

I remember on a few occasions when a rider was excluded that he would park his bike across the track at the start and go storming up to the refs box, not sure if any of the occasions were staged, but it all added to the excitement.

HEARING that Premiership tracks will have Good Friday ... CL Easter Monday

Agree but the clubs cannot afford to lose either group with the dire situation many of them are in. The worrying point is that very few or none of them know what to do to grow the fan base and attendance.

I think we can safely say that Kurtz wasn't a 'cut above' anybody in that field after all. Maybe in the future. Or maybe not.

So Tungate simply wanted it more then and done what was needed - it was to decide a National Championship after all. The ref obviously didnt see it as unfair and you roll the dice and take the odds

Hans will be missed great team man off the track awful on it, very good at nearly taking his team mate off at times last year. That's the only area Hans should look at - his team mate on track. I would class Hans now as a journeyman, will he add to his 7.75? I don't think so will probably sustain that but won't improve. Sometimes it's better to look ahead, getting a younger rider in who will improve year on year is a good option.

Jarek would return either on his last average here (around nine) or the assessed 8.00 as he has been a GP rider in the last three seasons. Yes he has approached three clubs but nothing has come from it due to the 8+ rule coming into effect and now Unlikley to feature here this season. KK the safe bet and showed up well for Rye House and handy for airports from Poland on the Monday morning.

Pay back time for being a very naughty boy when he was in the Poole team?

So expecting imminent news any time in the next 5 years

That made me laugh as well. It's like when they quote the average wage, I always think, I wish!! I've worked a long time, and still have years to go, and at the end of it will have a work pension and state pension of some description (was contracted out for part) but both together fall well short of 20k. Certainly not as much as when working so I'll be happy for my concession without having to be means tested at the turnstile to get it.

Considering this is a Poole thread, and I am writing about Poole, my post and opinion is completely valid. If you don’t like it don’t read the Poole thread!

Yes, but it’s a huge disincentive for NL riders to see the CL dumping young Brits. CL clubs should be proud to show off the talents of Nielsen, Jacobs & Perks, setting examples for NL riders to aspire to, rather than ending their careers. Thankfully Stefan, at least, has got back.

Starry had an op to remove a non-cancerous brain tumour. It all went successfully at Southampton General and he is now in the recuperation/recovery stages.

And if Joe agrees to travel from Blackpool every week to race for a Scottish club....

I said times have changed, so I agree with you on that. Where I disagree is your 2nd paragraph. He does have a valid point BUT appealing for sponsors for new equipment whilst at the same time complaining about his employer, which effectively is what he is doing is IMHO rather silly (polite version). as A Orlov says the riders have to stick together over the asset system, which I agree is wrong and illegal but I have a slight amount of sympathy for the promoters, who lets face it are not charities. Some riders demand far more than promoters can afford to pay, and have an inflated view of their own worth, and I just have the feeling that promoters have got together this season and tried to put a bit of reality into things with Ford and Buster (that we know about) only being interested in full transfers. i could be completely wrong but it's never good when one side holds all the trump cards, there has to be a balance.

if joe agrees to the wages on offer.

No one can doubt his obvious ability on a bike. Probably it would be best if he let his riding do his talking, and forego airing his views in the national magazine...

According to the Office for National Statistics, that's not true. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/nowcastinghouseholdincomeintheuk/financialyearending2017 They say that the median retired household's income is £22,400, that of a non retired household is £29,300 (the equivalent mean is £26,347 and £34,363). That's about 30% lower. Having said that, the gap in the last 10 years has narrowed significantly. While non retired household incomes have remained the same, retired households have increased by almost 25% . To me, that means you have a point and don't deserve the abuse thrown in your direction simply for raising this issue. Until, however, those two figures match each other then I think the case for the discount is justified, quite aside from the fact that certainly some of my retired friends would stop going if speedway did away with that reduction and that's regardless of the income they receive. There are a lot of retired people that go to speedway - although the proportion is nothing like what you have made it out to be - and the sport simply can't afford to risk losing them.

Kindle or Book? BOOK. Internet or Speedway Star? SPEEDWAY STAR. In full agreement with you.

There would be no complaints from me if there were no four point foreigners in the PL. Wouldn't want Jacobs or Auty but would take Perks, would have any of them if we were a CL team though. Which is what the discussion is about after all, these lads missing out on second division spots. Why should new foreign riders get spots before all the Brits who want a place are offered one?

Some of us got 16/1. The horse is owned by one of Poole's long-standing sponsors. Darcy himself was asked and agreed for the horse to be named after him.

We can't afford Lindgren... so little hope of affording three of them.