foreverblue Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 45 minutes ago, poole keith said: We do seem to be dominating lower league speedway,shame we never race against any of the top teams in the country The problem is there is no economic sense to ride at the higher level. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverblue Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 3 hours ago, szkocjasid said: I think Joe T deserves more credit for his performance than he's getting (from some), he only lost to Kerr (x2) Cook & Lawson. Defeated Rowe, Starke, Thomsen & Ritchings. Only lost to Poole's top 4, defeated the bottom 3, plus Rowe. A good showing from Redcar's guest. I would say Joe T rode as well as expected, past performances he had similar scores. Danny was terrific, always liked him and I would have him back in a heartbeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 6 minutes ago, SteveLyric2 said: Last night Redcar and Glasgow on Friday had 5 and 4 Premiership riders respectively. Berwick next week have 5 riders in Premiership teams. Poole themselves have 4. Championship racing is far more competitive and has much more fixture variety. Goodness knows what the League structure will be in 2026 with no Brummies and various other rumours about current 'premiership' teams?! But you don't get to see Holders, Kvech, Fricke, Doyle, Emil, Woffy, Bewley, Kurtz, Magic, Museilak, Zagar etc etc. And two extra teams doesn't make for 'much more fixture variety'. Plus I'd question if Championship really is 'much more competitve', really not sure it is at all. I just feel its a real shame that one of the most successful and well supported sides in the country won't strive to be the best they can be and ride at the highest level. It's all a bit safe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poole keith Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 16 minutes ago, SteveLyric2 said: Last night Redcar and Glasgow on Friday had 5 and 4 Premiership riders respectively. Berwick next week have 5 riders in Premiership teams. Poole themselves have 4. Championship racing is far more competitive and hkhas much more fixture variety. Goodness knows what the League structure will be in 2026 with no Brummies and various other rumours about current 'premiership' teams?! However you dress it up its still div2,and we don't race any of the top teams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poole keith Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 13 minutes ago, foreverblue said: The problem is there is no economic sense to ride at the higher level. Understand all that,but for me it's still a shame circumstances (some non speedway related ) force poole into the lower league, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bald Bloke Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Bagpuss said: But you don't get to see Holders, Kvech, Fricke, Doyle, Emil, Woffy, Bewley, Kurtz, Magic, Museilak, Zagar etc etc. And two extra teams doesn't make for 'much more fixture variety'. Plus I'd question if Championship really is 'much more competitve', really not sure it is at all. I just feel its a real shame that one of the most successful and well supported sides in the country won't strive to be the best they can be and ride at the highest level. It's all a bit safe. Going by the crowds reported, and the best riders will attract more of them. Add the that the apparent pull Poole has for riders, the only reason i can see is that Matt Ford does what's best for Matt Ford. He must think he can make more profit riding in the Champ, and he might be right. Would be nice if he gave his loyal fans a treat though. I know i'll get Poole fans going on about race nights etc etc. They are very loyal to Ford, and that's fine. But i'm sure most would love the Prem, and the chance to have some top riders in their team. You never know when Brum drop out, he might make up the numbers, but i'm not holding my breath... Just my own opinion of course.. Edited June 12 by Bald Bloke 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 26 minutes ago, Bagpuss said: But you don't get to see Holders, Kvech, Fricke, Doyle, Emil, Woffy, Bewley, Kurtz, Magic, Museilak, Zagar etc etc. And two extra teams doesn't make for 'much more fixture variety'. Plus I'd question if Championship really is 'much more competitve', really not sure it is at all. I just feel its a real shame that one of the most successful and well supported sides in the country won't strive to be the best they can be and ride at the highest level. It's all a bit safe. When my team Ipswich dropped down nobody really enjoyed it … from seeing the top stars we then had Lasse Bjerre , Taylor Poole and Kevin Doolan… all good riders but it wasn’t the same Funnily enough when we did drop down I used to get abuse and mocked by certain Poole fans about watching second tier speedway but now the boot is on the other foot it seems the second division is the place to be Poole always build good sides but if they were struggling then it might be a different story Nobody will convince me that it wasn’t better when Poole had Holder and Ward and Pedersen and such like I’d love Ipswich to win the league but if we don’t then I will still prefer a heat 13 with Emil and Doyle against Holder Bewley or Kurtz rather than Lawson and Rowe as good as those 2 riders are it’s a different level And both leagues are uncompetitive… Ipswich Sheffield and Belle Vue nailed on before a wheel was turned … same with Poole Glasgow and Redcar My point is that you can have good racing in both leagues … but if you have been brought up on top level racing like Poole have then you must miss that level of rider …. Glasgow and Redcar fans only know the lower league 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 Following on from that I started going speedway in 1981 to rye house and loved it … we started going Hackney in 1988 and then followed Mark Loram and went Ipswich in 1989 … all lower league speedway In 1990 Mark moved to Kings Lynn and we went to his first home meeting v Reading and seeing superstars to me like Knight Jonsson Doncaster was so good … I was 14 at the time … by the way Mark got 20 from 7 rides I believe beaten only by readings young reserve Todd Wiltshire lol …. In May that year I went to my first British final …. Wigg Tatum Cross Doncaster Havelock… seeing these top riders was awesome at that age ….and as much as I liked lower league speedway you will never beat seeing the top boys at your track or elsewhere 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 Poole more than any other team see a big drop off in crowd levels when not winning, (given they start with more than most)... Hence, when competing to win in Div 1 became unrealistically expensive, and impacted profits, they decided to compete to win in Div 2... With many of the same riders to watch.. Meaning they have stayed successful and their crowds respond regularly in good numbers, paying less than Div 1 prices to watch around 60% to 70% of those there, Div 1 riders.. Div 1/Div 2, winning either wont generate any massive financial prize, or widespread publicity, so why not be a "big fish in a small pond"... (Or should that read being a "big fish in a smaller pond than the other slightly bigger one"?).. Yes, they don't get to see GP riders but, as we have seen this season already, and seasons before, neither do some Div 1 crowds when personal career aspirations make them unavailable, (or simply Poland just tell them they cannot ride over here).. And, as we also see, the GP riders dont exactly pack in thousands when they visit do they? A very sharp business plan which isn't surprising as those who run Poole have been ahead of the curve for a long time.. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaColette Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 37 minutes ago, Bald Bloke said: Going by the crowds reported, and the best riders will attract more of them. Add the that the apparent pull Poole has for riders, the only reason i can see is that Matt Ford does what's best for Matt Ford. He must think he can make more profit riding in the Champ, and he might be right. Would be nice if he gave his loyal fans a treat though. I know i'll get Poole fans going on about race nights etc etc. They are very loyal to Ford, and that's fine. But i'm sure most would love the Prem, and the chance to have some top riders in their team. You never know when Brum drop out, he might make up the numbers, but i'm not holding my breath... Just my own opinion of course.. They already said they are not going to do that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeOldPitGate Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 Agreed Mike, Matt Ford might be marmite but he's shrewd, he knows hardly any body is breaking even in speedway best case with some regularly losing six figures per season. He must be gutted he didn't manage to push a sale through when he had Holder and Ward in their pomp as would probably struggle to give the club away now. From memory costs are a third lower in division two, he still gets good crowds, assuming if they moved back up and had to get say a Doyle and Emil style spearhead those kind of riders would probably want 5k each per meeting which at £20 per head that's 500 adult paying fans you need every week coming in before you get to paying for the rest of the team, stadium hire, ambulances, insurance etc. Unless you have a really good main sponsor who will chuck in 100k plus each season why would you take the risk plus if one of the main men get injured you have next to zero chance of getting anyone over to replace them where in the second division you might be able to get over a young unpolished gem like Oxford have with McDaid. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaColette Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 1 hour ago, Bagpuss said: But you don't get to see Holders, Kvech, Fricke, Doyle, Emil, Woffy, Bewley, Kurtz, Magic, Museilak, Zagar etc etc. And two extra teams doesn't make for 'much more fixture variety'. Plus I'd question if Championship really is 'much more competitve', really not sure it is at all. I just feel its a real shame that one of the most successful and well supported sides in the country won't strive to be the best they can be and ride at the highest level. It's all a bit safe. Easy to criticise when it isn't your money imo. Also they said the aren't going to bail the club out if it makes a loss, which prob is a high probability in the Prem. Was told Tolley put 30k into Brum in just one week! Championship is more competitive than the Prem imo results wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverblue Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 1 hour ago, Bagpuss said: But you don't get to see Holders, Kvech, Fricke, Doyle, Emil, Woffy, Bewley, Kurtz, Magic, Museilak, Zagar etc etc. And two extra teams doesn't make for 'much more fixture variety'. Plus I'd question if Championship really is 'much more competitve', really not sure it is at all. I just feel its a real shame that one of the most successful and well supported sides in the country won't strive to be the best they can be and ride at the highest level. It's all a bit safe. All down to economics I would say. The top league doesnt increase gate receipts much if at all and the prices may put off some. Personally I would love to see Poole back in the top league but I just cant see it happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverblue Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 1 hour ago, poole keith said: Understand all that,but for me it's still a shame circumstances (some non speedway related ) force poole into the lower league, Yes I agree it is a shame and personally I would rather be in the top division. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bagpuss said: But you don't get to see Holders, Kvech, Fricke, Doyle, Emil, Woffy, Bewley, Kurtz, Magic, Museilak, Zagar etc etc. And two extra teams doesn't make for 'much more fixture variety'. Plus I'd question if Championship really is 'much more competitve', really not sure it is at all. I just feel its a real shame that one of the most successful and well supported sides in the country won't strive to be the best they can be and ride at the highest level. It's all a bit safe. Economically 'safe' is the key, especially when you don't have control of the stadium or its costs!! As stated by others, Poole still get amongst the better attendances across either league because fans (mostly) like what they see and keep coming. Danny Ford has only recently stated (Speedway Star) that Poole will not replace Birmingham next year, nor any other team considering stepping down (eg, rumours about Spires and Tigers!!). Also if/when Coventry come back Matt Ford (as the Promoter) has said it would be at Championship level. Edited June 12 by SteveLyric2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 1 hour ago, Gavan said: When my team Ipswich dropped down nobody really enjoyed it … from seeing the top stars we then had Lasse Bjerre , Taylor Poole and Kevin Doolan… all good riders but it wasn’t the same Funnily enough when we did drop down I used to get abuse and mocked by certain Poole fans about watching second tier speedway but now the boot is on the other foot it seems the second division is the place to be Poole always build good sides but if they were struggling then it might be a different story Nobody will convince me that it wasn’t better when Poole had Holder and Ward and Pedersen and such like I’d love Ipswich to win the league but if we don’t then I will still prefer a heat 13 with Emil and Doyle against Holder Bewley or Kurtz rather than Lawson and Rowe as good as those 2 riders are it’s a different level And both leagues are uncompetitive… Ipswich Sheffield and Belle Vue nailed on before a wheel was turned … same with Poole Glasgow and Redcar My point is that you can have good racing in both leagues … but if you have been brought up on top level racing like Poole have then you must miss that level of rider …. Glasgow and Redcar fans only know the lower league The difference nowadays is that the Championship is not based on riders equivalent to the likes LasseBjerre, Taylor Poole and Kevin Doolan. Clubs each have 3,4 or 5 riders with Premiership team places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortythirtyeight Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 As predicted result. Poole are very strong at home, a weakened Bears side were never seriously in it with 3 riders managing only 4 points between them. Thompson did a solid job as did the heat leaders but they didnt have the back up. That could be a problem for them all season as Pijper doesn't look as though he wants to mix it , Mulford not great away , Edwards will be sorely missed. As for Poole, they all did there job , in every department, couple of surprise zero’s but no harm done. The reasons for Poole being in the championship have been discussed many, many times and Matt Ford knows what he's doing and thats it. Poole to win the league ( forget the silly play off scenario ) Bears to scrape into the top four and therefor the play offs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bald Bloke Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 55 minutes ago, LisaColette said: Easy to criticise when it isn't your money imo. Also they said the aren't going to bail the club out if it makes a loss, which prob is a high probability in the Prem. Was told Tolley put 30k into Brum in just one week! Championship is more competitive than the Prem imo results wise. That's fine, but i think it would pee me off if i thought he wouldn't give something back to the fans if necessary though.. Good job most don't seem to think the same. Someone on here did say Matt is like Marmite. I certainly agree with that Nice to see Lewi seems to be on the up btw. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beirao Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 52 minutes ago, SteveLyric2 said: Economically 'safe' is the key, especially when you don't have control of the stadium or its costs!! As stated by others, Poole still get amongst the better attendances across either league because fans (mostly) like what they see and keep coming. Danny Ford has only recently stated (Speedway Star) that Poole will not replace Birmingham next year, nor any other team considering stepping down (eg, rumours about Spires and Tigers!!) Also if/when Coventry come back Matt Ford (as the Promoter) has said it would be at Championship level. Spires can't step down, can they? It's game over if the Premiership falls below six. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 29 minutes ago, Beirao said: Spires can't step down, can they? It's game over if the Premiership falls below six. Exactly!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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