ouch Posted July 9 Report Share Posted July 9 1 hour ago, mikebv said: If there are no "top riders" then those tracks, now once again used to having them, wiill get hit at the turnstiles... However, if there are still "top riders" (max one per track), then that might work to increase crowds at the Div 2 tracks who haven't seen them for a while, and could maybe keep attendances OK at the current Div 1 tracks who have them.. If it is a 12 team league with 60 riders then clubs should also get some extra riders signed up using a similar contract to the "Warsaw" one used in Poland.. Meaning instead of guests they can bring in riders open to doing "some matches", subject to averages allowing them to slot in.. The big danger of one league is guestfest after guestfesf, particularly at weekends, when Poland kicks in, and Wednesdays with Denmark impacting Poole... If there is still so little credibility in the competition then the devaluing of it will inevitably hit attendances like it does now.. I think the TV deal is in its last year so maybe no coverage next season other than club streaming and BSN? Which, if correct, won't be a bad thing attendance wise I would think.. Let's be honest, UK Speedway hasn't used TV coverage well over the past two decades has it? With it being one of the very few sports with 1000's of hours coverage that hasn't improved attendances or increased its reach and profile. A embarrassing shambles to be honest given the 100's of two hour "free adverts" it has been given.. The Aces I would think would revert back to Friday or even Saturday, as, even if guestfests, those nights would still bring more in to watch the great racing on offer I would suggest, especially as the sport has now made so many "generic" fans, who attend for the racing rather than the bona fide nature of the event itself.. The price point has to be around £15 to £20 max and maybe each away track gets given 100 free tickets to see if some much needed "tribal atmosphere" could get created? Subsidising Supporters Clubs coaches could also help get the away fans to tracks... Something drastic certainly needs to be done of that there is no doubt, (and should have been done at least a decade ago), so let's hope they come up with the right plan which delivers a competitive league, that also has the required credibility to make the competition itself have a bona fide status, so it's actually worth winning... And, therefore, attending.... One thing is definite. Doing the "same old, same old" Mickey Mouse team structure nonsense, and still having the same amount of "dodgy call offs", won't improve things one iota... I don’t see Friday or Saturday working for Belle Vue now. The competition for the leisure dollar is intense in Manchester and more so on those days. I think we’d miss out. I don’t agree with the comments about the top stars. Pretty much all them in our league started out, like Dan as rookies and we have had the pleasure of seeing them grow into top stars. If they still want to ride here then dumping them or creating rules that precludes them is a backward step. History has shown that any backward step by the powers that be has been badly implemented and has only served to alienate more fans. I’ll watch whatever they put on at the NSS, many won’t. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShanoXtra Posted July 9 Report Share Posted July 9 1 hour ago, LisaColette said: How you gonna do it with 5 teams then? Gotta ask yourself why no one wants to move up. I would suggest that this season is only 5 teams anyway. Oxford and Birmingham totally out of the running for play offs and they have nothing to play for as there isn't relegation in British speedway, therefore, their last matches are nothing to play for which is again a joke within the sport. At least with relegation they would still need to try and pick up points. The whole system is flawed I would say! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruckerroo Posted July 9 Report Share Posted July 9 None of this protected racenight rubbish, race on the night that gets you the most customers, when its suits you, not other countries cracking the whip , preferably an amalgamation with 11-12 teams 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShanoXtra Posted July 9 Report Share Posted July 9 3 minutes ago, ruckerroo said: None of this protected racenight rubbish, race on the night that gets you the most customers, when its suits you, not other countries cracking the whip , preferably an amalgamation with 11-12 teams How are you going to race on nights that suit you if you can't get the riders to race that night? People need to understand you can't just think making one league is the magic wand and everyone comes running back into the stadiums. Make one league all you want, but bugger all will happen because nobody in Britain will know about it anyway. You need to get the promotion correct first. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruckerroo Posted July 9 Report Share Posted July 9 4 minutes ago, ShanoXtra said: How are you going to race on nights that suit you if you can't get the riders to race that night? People need to understand you can't just think making one league is the magic wand and everyone comes running back into the stadiums. Make one league all you want, but bugger all will happen because nobody in Britain will know about it anyway. You need to get the promotion correct first. any twit knows that, dig up another 10 tolleys and spunk 5 or 6 milion then squire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShanoXtra Posted July 9 Report Share Posted July 9 3 minutes ago, ruckerroo said: any twit knows that, dig up another 10 tolleys and spunk 5 or 6 milion then squire. Any twit knows you don't need 5 or 6 million to promote something right. If you are spending 5 or 6 million to promote British speedway I'd say the problem is you and not the sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear_Bottom Posted July 9 Report Share Posted July 9 😉 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeW436 Posted July 9 Report Share Posted July 9 Yes. And stop blaming the Poles for our own shortcomings and more importantly stop trying to compete with the Poles, the sport over there is on a completely different level. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruckerroo Posted July 9 Report Share Posted July 9 1 hour ago, ShanoXtra said: Any twit knows you don't need 5 or 6 million to promote something right. If you are spending 5 or 6 million to promote British speedway I'd say the problem is you and not the sport. iv outstayed reading, iow and eastbourne in my 40 yrs as a supporter. Unfortunately the leisure pound is v hard to get hold of these days. Personally i hate these 5-6 team leagues with a huge chasm between good and bad. As another poster says you have to disregard poland, speedway is park lane over there and brick lane over here. As for promoters, they appear to be a thing of the past . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hasta la vista Posted July 9 Report Share Posted July 9 4 hours ago, WookieboyDon said: Yes they do. And there was at least 1200 there so all good. The Oxford stadium restaurant has a capacity of 250. There were not 950 people outside on Monday night whichever you try and dress it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedwaySlider72 Posted July 9 Report Share Posted July 9 4 hours ago, mikebv said: The price point has to be around £15 to £20 max and maybe each away track gets given 100 free tickets to see if some much needed "tribal atmosphere" could get created? Subsidising Supporters Clubs coaches could also help get the away fans to tracks... Why does the price point have to be "around £15 to £20 max"? If anything the sport, especially the Premiership, has held prices too low over many years now. All subsidised by TV money instead of putting TV money to better use to promote and grow the sport. The Premiership right now is a £30 product minimum. Some of the best riders in the world going at it. Price it appropriately as the quality product that it is. Championship at £20+ could move towards £25. What can you get for £15 nowadays in live sport? British Speedway features some of the best speedway riders in the world, even the Championship is stacked with high quality international riders. Price it with enough margin to go out and sell the product properly. Dropping the price is a lazy way to get a crowd and doesn't work. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedwaySlider72 Posted July 9 Report Share Posted July 9 4 hours ago, ShanoXtra said: No to one league. It isn’t going to work. Riders won’t be available or enough of them, certain race nights for better crowds but other track can only be used during the week because of stock cars. You won’t have part time riders who will have to choose work around race days / nights. They just need to improve their promotion of this current set up and ACTUALLY promote it properly and add a class of professionalism to the way it’s run. Watching John down the road who has a speedway bike at foxhall on a Thursday night for £20 vs watching Emil Doyle Brennan etc for £24 isn’t a step forward. Using your stock cars as an example very many people pay £20 to watch "John down the road" race his stock car at Foxhall. Many more than pay £24 to watch Emil and co. Sometimes they will pay much more than £20 if it is dressed up a a 'world championship'. Most don't know what speedway is let alone the difference between John and Emil. The price isn't the issue, nor the riders on show. It's promotion and perceived value for money. Get them right and the rest takes care of itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShanoXtra Posted July 9 Report Share Posted July 9 12 minutes ago, SpeedwaySlider72 said: Using your stock cars as an example very many people pay £20 to watch "John down the road" race his stock car at Foxhall. Many more than pay £24 to watch Emil and co. Sometimes they will pay much more than £20 if it is dressed up a a 'world championship'. Most don't know what speedway is let alone the difference between John and Emil. The price isn't the issue, nor the riders on show. It's promotion and perceived value for money. Get them right and the rest takes care of itself. The proof will be in the pudding if this one league happens and still no promotion takes place which we all know it won't, so lets see how many fans turn up to Foxhall without Doyle and Emil and how many turn up to NSS without Kurtz and Bewley, bear in mind half the Belle Vue don't turn up now for their stated 'qualifiers'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShanoXtra Posted July 9 Report Share Posted July 9 23 minutes ago, SpeedwaySlider72 said: Why does the price point have to be "around £15 to £20 max"? If anything the sport, especially the Premiership, has held prices too low over many years now. All subsidised by TV money instead of putting TV money to better use to promote and grow the sport. The Premiership right now is a £30 product minimum. Some of the best riders in the world going at it. Price it appropriately as the quality product that it is. Championship at £20+ could move towards £25. What can you get for £15 nowadays in live sport? British Speedway features some of the best speedway riders in the world, even the Championship is stacked with high quality international riders. Price it with enough margin to go out and sell the product properly. Dropping the price is a lazy way to get a crowd and doesn't work. Nobody would turn up for £30. If you think British speedway premiership is worth £30 you're dreaming. It doesn't have even half the superstars Poland has yet you can pick up a ticket in Poland for £13 for Ektraliga, with top quality stadia and everything that goes with it. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShanoXtra Posted July 9 Report Share Posted July 9 1 hour ago, ruckerroo said: iv outstayed reading, iow and eastbourne in my 40 yrs as a supporter. Unfortunately the leisure pound is v hard to get hold of these days. Personally i hate these 5-6 team leagues with a huge chasm between good and bad. As another poster says you have to disregard poland, speedway is park lane over there and brick lane over here. As for promoters, they appear to be a thing of the past . 4 Teams are evenly matched I'd say looking at results. Lynn are hit and miss but a full 1-7 is a solid team. Brummies' and Oxford just can't hit any consistency. Agree with the comment about promoters though! Nobody promotes anything. a few social media posts is classed as good promoting these days. Maybe Ipswich getting Jenkins or Thompson to visit a few schools or some flyers around the town would slightly raise awareness for Ipswich! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries Posted July 9 Report Share Posted July 9 Not happening. Next.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 9 Report Share Posted July 9 24 minutes ago, SpeedwaySlider72 said: Why does the price point have to be "around £15 to £20 max"? If anything the sport, especially the Premiership, has held prices too low over many years now. All subsidised by TV money instead of putting TV money to better use to promote and grow the sport. The Premiership right now is a £30 product minimum. Some of the best riders in the world going at it. Price it appropriately as the quality product that it is. Championship at £20+ could move towards £25. What can you get for £15 nowadays in live sport? British Speedway features some of the best speedway riders in the world, even the Championship is stacked with high quality international riders. Price it with enough margin to go out and sell the product properly. Dropping the price is a lazy way to get a crowd and doesn't work. Which team do you want to buy to knock out £30 Speedway? Good luck selling four guests and RR to a couple at sixty quid a pop... In fact, if you want to throw lots of money away I will send you my bank details and I will gladly accept it.... I pay for my lad at the NSS as he works PT, and I pay over £50 for entrance so we go very infrequently given the competition isn't ran as a "proper sporting championship", and has very little jeopardy or consequence for the vast majority of the year... If the same nonsense got dished out for £30 for us both, I would be there far more often... 12 trips at thirty quid, or three at fifty...? What would a business prefer? Many on the Unofficial BV FB page also state entrance fees as a barrier to more regular attendance from themselves..... If you want to charge £30 then there has to be top riders, jeopardy and consequence to every meeting, a very competitive league, no ad hoc made up teams, and a 2025 fit for purpose entertainment package.... The actuality is I fear, is that we will end up with a very much reduced offering, with all the usual nonsense surrounding how the sport is ran still very firmly in place... The rumoured plans, if true, look very much like short term survival mode decision making, rather than a longer term growth strategy... A five year plan anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mgas Posted July 9 Report Share Posted July 9 12 minutes ago, ShanoXtra said: Nobody would turn up for £30. If you think British speedway premiership is worth £30 you're dreaming. It doesn't have even half the superstars Poland has yet you can pick up a ticket in Poland for £13 for Ektraliga, with top quality stadia and everything that goes with it. I attended all my clubs home matches and pay £20+ £3.50 for a program I also take my two kids who get free entry. They both get food and a drink and a sweet and more often than not we spend a fiver on raffle tickets. This normal comes to £20-£30. Would I pay £30 to get in? possibly. I may be more fussy about which meetings i attend. Would I be feeding the kids before we head to the track and sticking a bag of sweets and a bottle of juice in their pockets? Definitely. Putting the price up is just going to push people further away imo. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedwaySlider72 Posted July 9 Report Share Posted July 9 10 minutes ago, mikebv said: If you want to charge £30 then there has to be top riders, jeopardy and consequence to every meeting, a very competitive league, no ad hoc made up teams, and a 2025 fit for purpose entertainment package.... The actuality is I fear, is that we will end up with a very much reduced offering, with all the usual nonsense surrounding how the sport is ran still very firmly in place... That's the point. To be a fit for purpose entertainment package isn't going to come at £15 a pop. You could price speedway at £15 and still have a queue of current fans telling you it's a £10 sport. That's crazy talk. Every other sport has grown and admission prices have inflated massively yet speedway is left behind. A sport with many of the top 100 riders in the world on display but speedway fans say it's not worth the money. Speedway's greatest problem is being stuck in a bubble where people won't pay good money. The sport has to improve the product and get out into the wider market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 9 Report Share Posted July 9 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Mgas said: I attended all my clubs home matches and pay £20+ £3.50 for a program I also take my two kids who get free entry. They both get food and a drink and a sweet and more often than not we spend a fiver on raffle tickets. This normal comes to £20-£30. Would I pay £30 to get in? possibly. I may be more fussy about which meetings i attend. Would I be feeding the kids before we head to the track and sticking a bag of sweets and a bottle of juice in their pockets? Definitely. Putting the price up is just going to push people further away imo. You can only hope that they have collected plenty of databased feedback from their fans as to why some don't attend regularly, but still passionately follow the sport... And that feedback has had "price of entry" high on the list... And, the only way to drop the price is to lose circa £15k to 20k total two match cost from one home income... And that could mean losing the top earners.. Personally, I would keep them and save the money further down the team by only having the top riders fully professional, (just how it used to be)... But also. PROMOTE THE BLOODY THING PROFESSIONALLY!!!! Edited July 9 by mikebv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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