Hawk127 Posted Tuesday at 07:51 AM Report Share Posted Tuesday at 07:51 AM 11 minutes ago, SteelShoe said: If the Polish U24 league is no more next year will they be looking to come to the UK to ride?. Unfortunately I doubt any Polish rider would want to commit to racing in the UK given the uncertainty of a fixture going ahead and the strung out fixture list where some clubs can go two or three weeks without a meeting. These Poles are successful because of the track time they get on the continent and since Brexit it is too much of a hassle to move equipment back and forth to the UK. It would be good to have a Polish squad tour the UK but I doubt that would happen either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therefused Posted Tuesday at 08:05 AM Report Share Posted Tuesday at 08:05 AM 14 minutes ago, Hawk127 said: Unfortunately I doubt any Polish rider would want to commit to racing in the UK given the uncertainty of a fixture going ahead and the strung out fixture list where some clubs can go two or three weeks without a meeting. These Poles are successful because of the track time they get on the continent and since Brexit it is too much of a hassle to move equipment back and forth to the UK. It would be good to have a Polish squad tour the UK but I doubt that would happen either. in theory though if there was one big league the fixture list issue would be sorted out, so shouldnt be a problem (although im sure theyll balls it up) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedwaySlider72 Posted Tuesday at 09:52 AM Report Share Posted Tuesday at 09:52 AM 17 hours ago, orion said: Not read the pages but are expect you will have normal the suspects going on about guests all the time . Its pretty simple as the standard of team and rider has got weaker so have the crowds it has little to do with guests as speedway in the uk has always had them The bottom line is you could have the same riders each week but unless they are top riders the crowds will get any bigger and that is unlikely to change as its to late now . If crowds were good enough to support having the top riders then why would the leagues have been watered down? Do you not think it was that even with 'top' riders they still didn't attract crowds big enough to sustain having them so the leagues had to be weakened to keep clubs alive? The quality of riders on show will have little impact on new fans as they won't know any of the top names anyway. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted Tuesday at 10:29 AM Report Share Posted Tuesday at 10:29 AM 28 minutes ago, SpeedwaySlider72 said: If crowds were good enough to support having the top riders then why would the leagues have been watered down? Do you not think it was that even with 'top' riders they still didn't attract crowds big enough to sustain having them so the leagues had to be weakened to keep clubs alive? The quality of riders on show will have little impact on new fans as they won't know any of the top names Never said the crowds were big enough to support top riders quite clearly that was not the case. But its pretty clear as the standard of rider has dropped so have the crowds..New Fans are brought by old fans as a rule of thumb they have stopped going because the standard has dropped.Not really got any answers to solve these problems the same as everyone else..but its stands to reason in nearly entertainment or sport the bigger names the bigger crowds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboy cookie returns? Posted Tuesday at 10:58 AM Report Share Posted Tuesday at 10:58 AM 47 minutes ago, SpeedwaySlider72 said: If crowds were good enough to support having the top riders then why would the leagues have been watered down? Do you not think it was that even with 'top' riders they still didn't attract crowds big enough to sustain having them so the leagues had to be weakened to keep clubs alive? The quality of riders on show will have little impact on new fans as they won't know any of the top names anyway. That’s the thing there aren’t new fans coming along in great numbers. When new ones do come along once the ‘issues’ like doubling up & guests pops up they tend to lose interest. Now I know the defence will be that guests have always been used but that doesn’t make it right. Which is another issue the sport has is that it doesn’t evolve. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old bob at herne bay Posted Tuesday at 01:55 PM Report Share Posted Tuesday at 01:55 PM Time for some honesty from the current bunch of Promoters. 🙂 1. How many clubs currently run at break even (or a profit) If they are telling supporters the truth - that they are all making a loss then Close the whole show down in its present form. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPERACE Posted Tuesday at 03:03 PM Report Share Posted Tuesday at 03:03 PM On 7/12/2025 at 1:26 PM, stevebrum said: Let Poole keep Wednesdays (they have never had a problem racing on a Danish league night, and they have had plenty of Danes through the years) and get them to move up along with Glasgow. Let them have a Scottish trophy (with Edinburgh and Berwick) and allow them to build down to championship level for those. The protected UK nights are a farce, Poland can take any Thursday they want and if they really wanted a Monday they could have it. Time to let teams run on whatever nights they want and have Monday as the TV night for the broadcaster. BSN will continue covering both leagues anyway to give viewers plenty of options. 1 league I doubt will happen. Plus it isn’t the answer. I agree with all your points here, 1 league will be avoid at all costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted Tuesday at 03:07 PM Report Share Posted Tuesday at 03:07 PM My Opinion (for what it is worth) Tin Hat On.! If the Premiership want to continue in present form ,let them get on with it.The Championship need to take a step back only use riders that are available to ride in every fixtures for their Championship Team .Teams made up of NDL riders promoted into Championship (probably meaning at least 2 in each Club)to replace shortfall of riders that will occur .Standard will drop but entertainment will not(IMO).Set a new points limit taking into account of the situation.Riders Doubling up put Championship Club as priority. The number of Clubs means the fixture list can be accommodated without much problem (IM0) in a 6 month Season. Clubs race on their own regular night. Dont think it would affect attendances too any great degree as too what they are at present. Riders in GB who can’t make GB speedway pay need to find a Club in Europe that will pay the money they demand or go semi-pro or retire. I know this is all pie in the Sky to a lot of people.(that’s life) One. thing for sure without a Major rethink the sport will keep on sinking. Nobody though when the the original 2nd division was was formed it would turn out be as successful with the standard of riders it started with but it developed a lot of talent. There is not room in Poland for everyone from UK. The End. Suggestions on a£20 note please👍😂 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaColette Posted Tuesday at 03:21 PM Report Share Posted Tuesday at 03:21 PM 15 minutes ago, SUPERACE said: I agree with all your points here, 1 league will be avoid at all costs. Might have to be done though especially if Oxford pull out of the Prem. Who can blame them really, they are not competitive in it and just making the numbers up. Eurosport said has to be 6 teams. TNT might say similar, so if goes down to 5 what other choice do they have if no one will move up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therefused Posted Tuesday at 03:29 PM Report Share Posted Tuesday at 03:29 PM 4 hours ago, orion said: Never said the crowds were big enough to support top riders quite clearly that was not the case. But its pretty clear as the standard of rider has dropped so have the crowds..New Fans are brought by old fans as a rule of thumb they have stopped going because the standard has dropped.Not really got any answers to solve these problems the same as everyone else..but its stands to reason in nearly entertainment or sport the bigger names the bigger crowds. i dont think it boils down to just that one thing though, sure its had a part in it but there are plenty of other factors that have seen the crowd dwindling too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted Tuesday at 03:56 PM Report Share Posted Tuesday at 03:56 PM 22 minutes ago, therefused said: i dont think it boils down to just that one thing though, sure its had a part in it but there are plenty of other factors that have seen the crowd dwindling too. Of course ..in my opinion the biggest one thou. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted Tuesday at 04:07 PM Report Share Posted Tuesday at 04:07 PM 43 minutes ago, LisaColette said: so if goes down to 5 what other choice do they have if no one will move up? 5 teams is not a league... it's almost a match! If we could shave it down to 4... we could get the whole league programme done in one night! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted Tuesday at 05:21 PM Report Share Posted Tuesday at 05:21 PM 6 hours ago, cowboy cookie returns? said: That’s the thing there aren’t new fans coming along in great numbers. When new ones do come along once the ‘issues’ like doubling up & guests pops up they tend to lose interest. Now I know the defence will be that guests have always been used but that doesn’t make it right. Which is another issue the sport has is that it doesn’t evolve. Not many successful entities use an operating model that they used 50 years ago... With their reason for doing so being... "We did it 50 years ago".... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted Tuesday at 05:33 PM Report Share Posted Tuesday at 05:33 PM 1 hour ago, therefused said: i dont think it boils down to just that one thing though, sure its had a part in it but there are plenty of other factors that have seen the crowd dwindling too. The crowds dropped in big numbers whilst the likes of Trick, Pedersen, Hancock, Crump, Adams, Loram, et al, all rode over here... The fact that most left when the Sky money ran out suggests that this was the only thing keeping them here... Meaning crowd numbers alone were not enough to pay them what they required... Therefore, their presence didn't deliver enough attendees to justify the outlay required without Sky money... The same has happened since the "top talent" has come back... Great to see them ride, but they are not, at most tracks, bringing extra fans in through the turnstiles... To the many millions around the country who have never heard of Speedway, Robert Lambert will mean as much to them as Simon Lambert.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted yesterday at 08:00 AM Report Share Posted yesterday at 08:00 AM 14 hours ago, mikebv said: The crowds dropped in big numbers whilst the likes of Trick, Pedersen, Hancock, Crump, Adams, Loram, et al, all rode over here... The fact that most left when the Sky money ran out suggests that this was the only thing keeping them here... Meaning crowd numbers alone were not enough to pay them what they required... Therefore, their presence didn't deliver enough attendees to justify the outlay required without Sky money... The same has happened since the "top talent" has come back... Great to see them ride, but they are not, at most tracks, bringing extra fans in through the turnstiles... To the many millions around the country who have never heard of Speedway, Robert Lambert will mean as much to them as Simon Lambert.. And if they never rode there would be even less fans. If Robert Lambert rides rather than Simon Lambert there going to be atbetween 100 to 250 more fans at a match In nearly every other sport people understannd the main way to increase crowds is to get better players - riders in bar speedway of course who still have people who think we dont need the big boys etc and 7 no ones if somehow going to get crowds in and save the sport Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted yesterday at 08:49 AM Report Share Posted yesterday at 08:49 AM 30 minutes ago, orion said: And if they never rode there would be even less fans. If Robert Lambert rides rather than Simon Lambert there going to be atbetween 100 to 250 more fans at a match In nearly every other sport people understannd the main way to increase crowds is to get better players - riders in bar speedway of course who still have people who think we dont need the big boys etc and 7 no ones if somehow going to get crowds in and save the sport They have already had riding here, or brought in over the past two seasons... Woffy, Emil, Doyle, Bewley, Kurtz, Fricke, Holder, Lindgren, Holder, Janowski, MJJ,, Zagar, Kvech, Lidsey and B Cook... All either Ex World Champs, or GP winners, some being multiple GP winners, some are GP riders, others being well known names, or Polish top tier riders.. And most tracks have seen no increase in crowds, with some actually showing less... Yet their costs have increased by using these riders... How do you afford even more "top level riders?" so your crowds can magically grow? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAST GATER Posted yesterday at 08:54 AM Report Share Posted yesterday at 08:54 AM 3 minutes ago, mikebv said: They have already had riding here, or brought in over the past two seasons... Woffy, Emil, Doyle, Bewley, Kurtz, Fricke, Holder, Lindgren, Holder, Janowski, MJJ,, Zagar, Kvech, Lidsey and B Cook... All either Ex World Champs, or GP winners, some being multiple GP winners, some are GP riders, others being well known names, or Polish top tier riders.. And most tracks have seen no increase in crowds, with some actually showing less... Yet their costs have increased by using these riders... How do you afford even more "top level riders?" so your crowds can magically grow? The top riders are normally paid for by outside money /sponsorship not gate receipts . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted yesterday at 09:06 AM Report Share Posted yesterday at 09:06 AM (edited) 19 minutes ago, FAST GATER said: The top riders are normally paid for by outside money /sponsorship not gate receipts . I know most get covered their costs by other outside income than points money... Therefore, surely that should be "boom time" for the clubs shouldn't it? Big names, potentially no costs, so just sit back and watch those stands fill up... Kerching .. The reality of course is something different... NB And if sponsors do cover all the costs, I suppose the question must be.. Why is it around 20 to 25% more expensive to watch Speedway now than it was pre COVID in 2020? Maybe that is a bigger reason for the current crowd levels than the level of riders on show? Edited yesterday at 09:15 AM by mikebv 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted yesterday at 09:42 AM Report Share Posted yesterday at 09:42 AM 32 minutes ago, mikebv said: I know most get covered their costs by other outside income than points money... Therefore, surely that should be "boom time" for the clubs shouldn't it? Big names, potentially no costs, so just sit back and watch those stands fill up... Kerching .. The reality of course is something different... NB And if sponsors do cover all the costs, I suppose the question must be.. Why is it around 20 to 25% more expensive to watch Speedway now than it was pre COVID in 2020? Maybe that is a bigger reason for the current crowd levels than the level of riders on show? Another reason regarding Admission prices is paying over the odds to meet mediocre riders demands. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJA Posted yesterday at 09:49 AM Report Share Posted yesterday at 09:49 AM I cannot see how one league can work at the moment as I suspect to keep club like Poole happy it would run on most nights. If this was the case then riders who ride in Poland and I'm not taking about the stars like Doyle, Kurtz, Bewley, Fricke, Holder etc, buy secondary riders like Pickering, Masters, Lawson, Douglas etc would find it almost impossible to rider in the UK. So the alternative is to have fixed race nights but then the issue is clubs like Poole will not like that. So is the realistic proposition Monday Wednesday and Thursday as UK club nights. Obviously it means that you loose some riders who are contracted to rider in Denmark but then with this how happy are Friday and weekend clubs going to be. Maybe the solution is to have two divisions. Prem and Champ only. The Prem anything goes and you have a minimum points limit to build above, then the champ would be at a slightly lower level than this season as the reserve berths would be filled by NDL standard riders like Tom Spencer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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