KevtheRev Posted Wednesday at 02:48 PM Report Share Posted Wednesday at 02:48 PM 6 hours ago, ShanoXtra said: So now we are suggesting we water our league down only to lose every match against Denmark and Sweden teams because they will have GP riders and we wont? Come on guys someone needs to have concrete answers or this is more farcical by the day. I've not suggested watering down our league, quite the opposite. Do this to ensure we keep hold of the top guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted Wednesday at 03:44 PM Report Share Posted Wednesday at 03:44 PM (edited) 4 hours ago, YeOldPitGate said: As we all know there aren't any good/ easy immediate answers it won't happen but I have mulled if maybe there were six in the main league next year keep the superstars but just have one home and away then straight into the play off's if you wanted to see Emil,Jack Holder, Fricke you might have just the one chance rather than 4-5 opportunities now. The top six clubs could then run a second team like Oxford have done at Championship level assuming say the current remaining 9 championship teams run it could be once/home and away with maybe 5 man teams with riders who are committed to being available for at least 90% of the fixtures. This would give more variety and we would have to keep double down as a necessary evil for the near term but the likes of the Cooks, Harris, Lawson, Masters, (maybe Douglas) could still compete in both leagues to earn a decent living. If the third tier continues to run maybe allow each team to have a couple of aussies Jordy Loftus is a good example struggled when he got here but is now finding his feet and chipping in with a few points each meeting hopefully he should develop into a decent riders who would commit to UK next 5-10 years. I realise people will say the model hasn't worked for Oxford this year but I get the impression the problems are more down to the health of the main backer than the operating model. Getting away from Mondays is a must the worst night of the week to put anything on as people have had the low of going back to work after the weekend high and just don't want to go out that night, Thurs and Fridays the weekend feeling is starting to get back in peoples head and they are more inclined to do things. I like the idea of a "Super League", with maybe five rider teams? Could Glasgow and Poole be tempted to go into it? Them plus the current six would mean just 40 riders of say four point and above averages... Home and Away once, with top four play offs, and play downs if other clubs want to join the year after... Franchise Speedway, keep your spot or lose it... You can then run the same teams in a hybrid Championship/NDL level with the top riders missing... The big league, home and away once, and top six into the play offs, given the number of teams to keep the league interesting... 3rd v 6th, and 4th v 5th to qualify to the last four... First and Second then pick their opponents in order.. And then one "Super League" that you sell to the TV companies... (With no F***ing Guests in the Super League!.. Twenty quid for Super League, fifteen quid for the hybrid one.... Edited Wednesday at 03:59 PM by mikebv 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted Wednesday at 05:59 PM Report Share Posted Wednesday at 05:59 PM 5 hours ago, mikebv said: When Poland decide Mondays and Thursdays are the best nights to run their Speedway on every week, then I think we will be ahead of the curve.... As Plymouth has shown, and I believe Leicester has shown in the past, running weekend Speedway delivers bigger crowds, even if riders are missing or of a lesser standard... Clubs need to target kids aged 4 - 11, like McDonald's do, as they know that the loss leader "Happy Meal" will get sold alongside the Adults getting profit making meals too... They also know that on Monday morning the kids who attended little Williams birthday party at McD's on the Friday evening, Saturday or Sunday, will be talking about it, and those who attended will be mithering their parents to have their parties there... And those who just heard about the party, but didn't attend, will be mithering their parents as well!! Flood local infant schools with free tickets for kids and reduced price tickets for their parents or guardians.. There may be some who attend now, but not many, so what you may lose is nothing compared to what could be gained... And just charge a tenner for the Adults, as the vast majority of tenners will be new money, not regulars getting in cheap... But. And this where "grand gestures" never work in isolation.... "Build it and they will come" doesn't work... You then need to keep these people coming at a scaled reduced price, until they get hooked and are prepared to pay full price... And you do that through constant communication via email and phone... Lets be clear though, running on a Monday or Thursday during school terms won't encourage those parents to attend, regardless of whether VFM or not... As for those older kids? Sponsor local football, cricket, rugby etc etc leagues... Attend the games with bikes, and marketing gazebo. Some places have ten games being played at once, meaning hundreds of kids and hundreds of parents.. The beauty for Speedway is you don't need thousands more to attend at each track, just hundreds... Even a very, very basic local marketing campaign will deliver that, for not much outlay, if the right market is targeted, and you keep in communication with them.. Or, alternatively, carry on doing exactly the same thing but expect it all to come good.. Whilst taking the sport to the kids again is worthwhile we have hundreds a year with their parents walking past a 50 foot image of Dan Bewley before walking across the speedway track to play football. https://www.playfootball.net/venues/manchester-belle-vue-sports-village/community-sessions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted Wednesday at 06:23 PM Report Share Posted Wednesday at 06:23 PM (edited) 26 minutes ago, ouch said: Whilst taking the sport to the kids again is worthwhile we have hundreds a year with their parents walking past a 50 foot image of Dan Bewley before walking across the speedway track to play football. https://www.playfootball.net/venues/manchester-belle-vue-sports-village/community-sessions Asking them to lay out circa £40 for mum and dad, (over £50 if sat down as the kid gets charged too), to watch something they know very little about, will always be the challenge.. Even more so on a school day during term time... Seems daft to have all those empty seats near bend four for so many meetings, when some cheap tickets/freebies, may engage some parents and kids to attimes.. And you don't need the same ones attending each week, just keep flooding the locale with cheap tickets... When I worked in marketing for a couple of years, doing a head office secondment, I was amazed at just how low freebies, or low price offers, via coupons, were redeemed... Around just 11℅ to 15% was the averaged/expected/budgeted for, take up... Glasgow are giving away 3000 tickets which should therefore see a redemption of 330 to 450 using industry numbers, which shows how "big" the clubs need to think when doing these trade driving ideas... Hope it works for them, and they have a plan to keep those newbies personally engaged to revisit several times enough to become "hooked" and see the full admission costs as VFM.. Edited Wednesday at 06:26 PM by mikebv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShanoXtra Posted Thursday at 08:51 AM Report Share Posted Thursday at 08:51 AM 18 hours ago, KevtheRev said: I've not suggested watering down our league, quite the opposite. Do this to ensure we keep hold of the top guys Apologies Kev! I thought you meant with one league, not with still our GP riders in it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted yesterday at 09:41 AM Report Share Posted yesterday at 09:41 AM (edited) On 8/27/2025 at 7:23 PM, mikebv said: Asking them to lay out circa £40 for mum and dad, (over £50 if sat down as the kid gets charged too), to watch something they know very little about, will always be the challenge.. Even more so on a school day during term time... Seems daft to have all those empty seats near bend four for so many meetings, when some cheap tickets/freebies, may engage some parents and kids to attimes.. And you don't need the same ones attending each week, just keep flooding the locale with cheap tickets... When I worked in marketing for a couple of years, doing a head office secondment, I was amazed at just how low freebies, or low price offers, via coupons, were redeemed... Around just 11℅ to 15% was the averaged/expected/budgeted for, take up... Glasgow are giving away 3000 tickets which should therefore see a redemption of 330 to 450 using industry numbers, which shows how "big" the clubs need to think when doing these trade driving ideas... Hope it works for them, and they have a plan to keep those newbies personally engaged to revisit several times enough to become "hooked" and see the full admission costs as VFM.. https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/other-sport/aces-on-offer-983611?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/other-sport/prices-cut-as-aces-thank-loyal-1002582.amp We still do things of a similar vein but just to be clear we didn’t stop doing the specifics mentioned in the links due to them being so successful. We can all get a handle on where speedway sits in the public consciousness. I’ve asked this twice but I think fans lethargy dwarfs that of any promoter. Invite 20 people you know to attend a meeting with you and let us know their reaction whether they attend or not. These are “hot” invites as they know and like you so it’s infinitely easier than a “cold call” invite. Having your 20 responses will give you a sense of what speedway in the UK is up against. Just to add, you don’t need to do this. You can all do nothing or even better just keep telling other folk where they are going wrong. Edited yesterday at 09:52 AM by ouch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midlandred Posted yesterday at 10:03 AM Report Share Posted yesterday at 10:03 AM (edited) On 8/26/2025 at 9:05 PM, Ray Stadia said: I have in the past, but been shot down in flames. I'm certainly not going to waste my time regurgitating what I've said in the past, just to be shot down again by the 'all is fine and rosy in speedway brigade'! Thanks for that, very useful! Edited yesterday at 10:04 AM by midlandred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted yesterday at 10:19 AM Report Share Posted yesterday at 10:19 AM 36 minutes ago, ouch said: https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/other-sport/aces-on-offer-983611?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/other-sport/prices-cut-as-aces-thank-loyal-1002582.amp We still do things of a similar vein but just to be clear we didn’t stop doing the specifics mentioned in the links due to them being so successful. We can all get a handle on where speedway sits in the public consciousness. I’ve asked this twice but I think fans lethargy dwarfs that of any promoter. Invite 20 people you know to attend a meeting with you and let us know their reaction whether they attend or not. These are “hot” invites as they know and like you so it’s infinitely easier than a “cold call” invite. Having your 20 responses will give you a sense of what speedway in the UK is up against. Just to add, you don’t need to do this. You can all do nothing or even better just keep telling other folk where they are going wrong. 2013?.... Did it work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60sMonarch Posted 23 hours ago Report Share Posted 23 hours ago On 8/27/2025 at 8:28 AM, HGould said: My gut reaction to 2026 is that it will still be a 3 tier structure. Specifically Chris Louis will cling on to the TV Money and GP stars like King Canute trying to stop the rising tide, he'll be supported by KIngs Lynn / Belle Vue and Sheffield, and enough pressure will be put on Leicester to remain in a "top tier" and if they have to, they'll go 5 team League with even more of the TV slice. I can't see Glasgow playing that silly game, the Facenna brothers have a clear goal and aim in terms of the GP / GP2 / International Fixture status of their venue and like Poole, frankly don't want nor need to play silly buggars with the egotists. I suspect Oxford will run Championship as their main team with the existing teams remaining in that leagu and no one going up nor down. Belle Vue / Edinburgh / Leicester / Redcar / Oxford / Kings Lynn / Plymouth and the standalone Kent Eagles will form a competitive NDL League if enough Riders can be found to service 8 Teams. I suspect that would be the max number for 1 league and don't think Scunthorpe / Sheffield will be back (If Workington / Mildenhall or any other side wanted to play NDL level, a geographical split may be x 2 x 5 yeam leagues with a top 2 in each playing off?) Hardly ideal but I think prizing the TV Money and GP stars away from those PL Clubs will only happen when there are 4 or less left to continue the folly! I thought one of the conditions of the TV deal was that there were at least 6 teams in the Premier league 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Posted 22 hours ago Report Share Posted 22 hours ago What’s probably needed is a couple of Premier clubs say they can no longer afford to run in the league and need to run championship. Then we will see a change of mind to the current set up 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted 8 hours ago Report Share Posted 8 hours ago 21 hours ago, mikebv said: 2013?.... Did it work? Nope. Increase attendance but not revenue before attendance dropped back to normal levels with a decrease in revenue. All the initiatives haven’t worked to any great degree in the past though it could be said we are filling a leaky bucket given the age of our fan base so even standing still can be seen as a little victory. Being optimistic for a moment the current push for families using more modern channels of approach seems to be paying off with an always well attended bank holiday being very well attended, so the battle continues. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted 6 hours ago Report Share Posted 6 hours ago 1 hour ago, ouch said: Nope. Increase attendance but not revenue before attendance dropped back to normal levels with a decrease in revenue. All the initiatives haven’t worked to any great degree in the past though it could be said we are filling a leaky bucket given the age of our fan base so even standing still can be seen as a little victory. Being optimistic for a moment the current push for families using more modern channels of approach seems to be paying off with an always well attended bank holiday being very well attended, so the battle continues. One of the major flaws is the failure to use these "grand gestures" for long term growth... Expecting a family to fork out over forty quid the week after they got something for much less, or even free, is the disconnect... I would suggest you need four or five visits to start to "follow" the sport, so these "specials" need to be used as a starting point for long term growth, not a "build it and they will come", game plan.. There should be constant communication with those who got the free tickets, with further special offers to keep them engaged... The IT world we live in is perfect for marketing to the right target population.. My old company would send you coupons if you went six weeks without using your loyalty card... Someone controlling attendance tracking at a Speedway Club would be worth their weight in gold... Kids' (and Adults), names and birthday details, sending Xmas cards to addresses, etc, etc, are absolute winners when it comes to keeping your name in the frame, and any free tickets shoukd only be given out with that info locked into your system.. A constant dialogue to get you attending by using promotional offers is very rewarding for growth... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeOldPitGate Posted 6 hours ago Report Share Posted 6 hours ago On 8/27/2025 at 12:56 PM, Biffa said: If the 3 leagues stay and the Prem needs an extra team, could it be possible that Plymouth could move up & fill the void ? I remember they wanted to go straight into the top league when they restarted but we’re not allowed. Don’t know if they would want to now but they are the only club I can remember saying they would like to be in that league 🤷♂️ Really hope for their sake they don't they seem to be slowly turning things around at Plymouth why risk increasing your operating costs by 30-40% going back to running on a duff night, plus they are on the edge of England so a lot of riders don't want to travel all the way down there for home meetings. Look how Birmingham have struggled to put a competitive team together and Plymouth haven't got Tolley's deep pockets to bale them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted 6 hours ago Report Share Posted 6 hours ago 35 minutes ago, mikebv said: One of the major flaws is the failure to use these "grand gestures" for long term growth... Expecting a family to fork out over forty quid the week after they got something for much less, or even free, is the disconnect... I would suggest you need four or five visits to start to "follow" the sport, so these "specials" need to be used as a starting point for long term growth, not a "build it and they will come", game plan.. There should be constant communication with those who got the free tickets, with further special offers to keep them engaged... The IT world we live in is perfect for marketing to the right target population.. My old company would send you coupons if you went six weeks without using your loyalty card... Someone controlling attendance tracking at a Speedway Club would be worth their weight in gold... Kids' (and Adults), names and birthday details, sending Xmas cards to addresses, etc, etc, are absolute winners when it comes to keeping your name in the frame, and any free tickets shoukd only be given out with that info locked into your system.. A constant dialogue to get you attending by using promotional offers is very rewarding for growth... I agree and it’s a very different world today than only 10-15 years ago. Data capture and engagement with customers is so much easier and with AI keeping tabs on such data, tailored marketing is the way to go. You’re correct that keeping hold of customers is the hard part and deals are a must to keep them coming back. I’ve asked many times “What is that seat worth to you?” and the response is always £25. My argument is it’s currently worth zero as it’s constantly empty and an empty seat looks and feels bad so fill it in any way possible. We use to block out around 50 seats in F/G section for schools and the Hide Out Youth Zone but take up waned though the offer is always there. I would always have a full looking stadium for TV meetings, by hook or by crook as it adds a fomo factor to those looking in from their armchairs. Clubs need a dedicated marketing person and not treat it as an add on by one of the current staff. The more accomplished they are the better with remuneration being based on results. Over the years it’s always been someone’s mate having a go (I was one such mate back in Perrins era) and the focus is never quite there. Better still would be a British speedway sales team fighting for our portion on the leisure pound. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargent10 Posted 5 hours ago Report Share Posted 5 hours ago 58 minutes ago, YeOldPitGate said: Really hope for their sake they don't they seem to be slowly turning things around at Plymouth why risk increasing your operating costs by 30-40% going back to running on a duff night, plus they are on the edge of England so a lot of riders don't want to travel all the way down there for home meetings. Look how Birmingham have struggled to put a competitive team together and Plymouth haven't got Tolley's deep pockets to bale them out. Plymouth would be mad to move up and does anyone actually know for certain what will happen with Sheffield, all sorts of things are being said ranging from complete shutdown to Nigel Tolley coming in but dropping down into championship to not risking his own money anymore, it seems as usual that it’s a mess and the fans are yet again left in the dark, something has to change and if it is one league without gp riders then so be it but at least it’s regular meetings and variety instead of stop start season and usual suspects at the top Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.V 72 Posted 5 hours ago Report Share Posted 5 hours ago (edited) So will one big weaker league work i have done a little research to help you decide. First of all we say goodbye to the 6 GP riders BK,DB,JD,MF,JH,JK,+ES. Then i checked which of the riders left double up both leagues and found that all but 15 of them do. These riders who do not are. J Lidsey, N Blodorn, T Brennan, R Douglas, J Pickering, C Holder, T Musielak, M Zagar, K Rew, N K Iversen, B Cook, M Janowski, R Tungate, L Becker, A Ellis. I found that of the above riders that 3 of them ride in the Polish top league. 9 of them ride in the Polish 2nd division. 2 of them ride in the Polish 3rd division. Also 8 of them ride in the Swedish top league and 4 of them also ride in the Danish league. So the question is how many of these riders would fancy riding in a league that runs on 6 days of the week of which non of them choose to do now. Hopefully some do but looking at the possibility that they do not. I have found that 19 riders in the Championship have averages over 7 points these riders are S Masters R Lawson, D King, N klindt, C Harris, C Wright, P Kildermand, S Worrall, K Howarth, E Riss, Z Cook, D Kemp, J Sedgman, D Thompson, J Allen, T Batchelor, A Rowe, A Vuolas and L Flint. So 15 of these riders spread over 15 teams will be the new number 1s. So the big hope is that some of the riders from other leagues will want to come over to ride. But looking how hard it is now to replace any injured riders it would seem that not many would So how do we fill the teams. As has been suggested we can lower team numbers if it is lowered to six then we need 90 riders. If my maths are right we are 27 riders short which will have to come from the National league there are 6 teams in that league which is 42 riders 9 of the better riders in this league already ride for championship teams which leaves 33 so that means a lot of very young inexperienced riders will be in all teams There is also the N D T league but most of the teams are filled with N D L riders doubling up so cuts down the choice of younger riders. Not sure if my maths or working outs are spot on but it gives a good idea of how teams will possibly look if we go one big league. In my opinion if they do go one big league having the above number one riders as the best in the league and so many very young inexperienced riders is one hell of a big risk. Edited 5 hours ago by B.V 72 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedwaySlider72 Posted 4 hours ago Report Share Posted 4 hours ago 1 hour ago, B.V 72 said: So will one big weaker league work i have done a little research to help you decide. In my opinion if they do go one big league having the above number one riders as the best in the league and so many very young inexperienced riders is one hell of a big risk. For a sport that is virtually unknown in this country that looks like a sensible level to run at with guys that are fully committed to riding in UK. Start from the bottom and build it up. Invest in marketing and presentation and watch the sport fly. Joe Bloggs on the street doesn't know Saifutdinov from Simon Lambert but will love Simon's commitment to his team. It's a team sport after all and needs sold on that. Back your team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted 3 hours ago Report Share Posted 3 hours ago 9 minutes ago, SpeedwaySlider72 said: For a sport that is virtually unknown in this country that looks like a sensible level to run at with guys that are fully committed to riding in UK. Start from the bottom and build it up. Invest in marketing and presentation and watch the sport fly. Joe Bloggs on the street doesn't know Saifutdinov from Simon Lambert but will love Simon's commitment to his team. It's a team sport after all and needs sold on that. Back your team. You only have to look at the names that have been interested enough in Speedway to buy all the kit and kaboodle to ride at NDL/CL reserve level over the last 10 years but have subsequently quit due to lack of opportunity because clubs want ready made riders from abroad to see that the sport in this country could be sustainable if only the people running the sport would give home grown riders a decent chance. Even now were importing loads of young Aussies, who are really just here to concentrate on starting a career in Poland. To do away with anybody not committed to British Speedway is going to take a period of adjustment but look how quickly the CL has recovered since its drastic weakening a few seasons back, a lot of fans were up in arms when this happened but now it's probably one of the most competitive leagues in Europe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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