WembleyLion Posted 15 hours ago Report Share Posted 15 hours ago 9 hours ago, IainB said: In theory they could be sold while midway through that 1 year (more likely 6 month) contract... though the contract is probably that full of holes, it's probably not worth the paper it's probably not written on. To my knowledge Speedway riders have not been club assets for a very long time mainly because they are self-employed. Clubs once had an arrangement where they bought and sold riders off each other but these arrangements seem to have disappeared. As you say riders enter into contracts to provide their services to clubs and I agree these contracts are probably not worth the paper they are written on in terms of placing a value on a rider. It would be like trying to sell your window cleaner to your next door neighbour! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted 15 hours ago Report Share Posted 15 hours ago 38 minutes ago, WembleyLion said: To my knowledge Speedway riders have not been club assets for a very long time mainly because they are self-employed. Clubs once had an arrangement where they bought and sold riders off each other but these arrangements seem to have disappeared. As you say riders enter into contracts to provide their services to clubs and I agree these contracts are probably not worth the paper they are written on in terms of placing a value on a rider. It would be like trying to sell your window cleaner to your next door neighbour! Yes, It's been a long time since a rider transfer fee was paid due to the worthlessness of it all... but I do believe that loan fees were paid until relatively recently, not 100% sure though as like so many things in the murky world of Speedway finances it's a closely guarded secret. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mikebv Posted 14 hours ago Popular Post Report Share Posted 14 hours ago Just been listening to Talksport and 'Arry was on (for a change!).... Very disappointing... He spent his whole time on there discussing Spurs and Thomas Frank, with the end of his conversation mentioning the sad passing of Billy Bonds.... I thought he may have at least mentioned his thoughts on how the Berwick team were shaping up, or maybe what he felt about Peterborough potentially coming back, but running at Oxford, or even his views on whether opening a track at Northampton would be good for Speedway.. Nothing... Just Football.... Maybe his life long love for the sport has ended? 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 valve Posted 14 hours ago Report Share Posted 14 hours ago 19 hours ago, Dave_minall said: I think it's far too late to switch to one league now. Some championship teams have already named riders, if the BSPA did a u-turn and made it so, it would make a farce of an already farcical situation. Remember, the BSPL is not an independent body, but collectively the bunch of promoters running clubs the breadth of the UK. The fallacy is to believe that the majority of the same said promoters care about the overall well being & future of the sport. It’s clear the promoters continue to deal with what’s in front of their noses to the exclusion of any long term plan thus we should not be surprised if the current farcical situation is made worse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted 14 hours ago Report Share Posted 14 hours ago 4 minutes ago, 1 valve said: Remember, the BSPL is not an independent body, but collectively the bunch of promoters running clubs the breadth of the UK. The fallacy is to believe that the majority of the same said promoters care about the overall well being & future of the sport. It’s clear the promoters continue to deal with what’s in front of their noses to the exclusion of any long term plan thus we should not be surprised if the current farcical situation is made worse. It was ever thus.... If ever a body of people needed saving from themselves it was UK Speedway... With no one to independently stand back, and objectively scrutinise how the optics of the decisions taken will look, and land, to their customer base, we have had decades of completely wrong decisions being made time after time... UK rider development should have been the No1 on their "to do" list, to ensure more supply than demand of riders, but instead we had foreign journeymen coming over and replacing each other using an ever spinning revolving door.. There are far too many self inflicted, and avoidable, issues to unpick now to ever sort the sport out without a huge influx of cash from somewhere I would think... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted 14 hours ago Report Share Posted 14 hours ago 18 minutes ago, mikebv said: With no one to independently stand back, and objectively scrutinise how the optics of the decisions taken will look, and land, to their customer base, we have had decades of completely wrong decisions being made time after time. Well that’s not strictly true, there are a few 1000 of us independent objective folk who constantly stand back and see the flaws in the bspl decision making but we are not listened too 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Jacobs Posted 14 hours ago Report Share Posted 14 hours ago 11 hours ago, IainB said: Ahh, that old chestnut... didn't stop them for the previous 95 years. And as we've stated countless times before the riders are not employees, they are contractors and the law will only apply to what is in their contract. Footballers are employees and yet an asset system still operates there. We now have a situation where all the CL clubs have been free to plunder PL "assets" in their closed shop league and to hell with the rest, leaving the 5 PL clubs high and dry to form a CL team even if they wanted to... nicely done 👍🏻 Not sure what point(s) you’re trying to make here? There is absolutely no comparison with soccer - the term “asset” is used very differently. Employment laws have changed dramatically in recent years. Speedway clubs have no employees or tangible rider assets as such - riders can be released from contracts, or release themselves from contracts, at any time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted 13 hours ago Report Share Posted 13 hours ago 10 minutes ago, Roger Jacobs said: Not sure what point(s) you’re trying to make here? There is absolutely no comparison with soccer - the term “asset” is used very differently. Employment laws have changed dramatically in recent years. Speedway clubs have no employees or tangible rider assets as such - riders can be released from contracts, or release themselves from contracts, at any time. This is the point I'm making 👇 11 hours ago, IainB said: What I'm getting at is if Sheffield now join the CL for example they would probably have wanted Josh Pickering but wouldn't be able to have him due to him having signed for Scunny, you'd probably say, at this point, he's more of a Sheffield rider than a Scunny rider, he may not be a balance sheet "asset" but he's a riding asset of Scunny in the CL for 2026 until his contract ends (for whatever reason) This is the point I'm making 👆 If he were an actual Sheffield "balance sheet asset" I doubt he'd be "signed" to Scunny at this stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesB Posted 11 hours ago Report Share Posted 11 hours ago It’s difficult to quantify exactly what the current position is. The current Championship clubs are continuing to announce signings which seems to point to: Premiership A potential league of five teams: Belle Vue Kings Lynn Leicester Sheffield Ipswich The obvious elephant in the room is that two of these need to find new owners and we are in December. Even if new owners are found, the still major secondary problem is that a five team league is borderline unviable and potentially value destroying. Is there really going to be a new ‘unicorn’ club conjured up from somewhere? Championship Everything is pointing to this continuing in the existing format with the existing clubs. If you believe some of the rumours, there is an active position that if any of the existing Premiership clubs wanted to join, then they would be turned down. Outcomes If there is a scenario where either one or both of Ipswich and Sheffield do not find a new owner, then the Premiership is toast. This would mean that either: - The Championship is prepared to expand and accept the rump of the Premiership clubs. - Three, maybe four (whatever is left) of the Premiership clubs do not come to the tapes for the 2026 season. One League for 2026 Arguably, with the number of signings already made by Championship clubs, the boat has already sailed on this. Either, the Premiership clubs joining the one league would have to build teams from a very shallow pool both in terms of numbers and talent or the existing Championship clubs agree to wipe the board and each participant club in the one league starts to team build from scratch. I really cannot see the latter option being accepted by those who would need to. Worst Case A number of Belle Vue, Kings Lynn, Leicester, Ipswich and Sheffield do not come to the tapes for the 2026 season. Four of those clubs do not have any current issues with landlords, potential eviction, housing developments, etc. If this happens, then it has to be the absolute definition of insanity on the part of those who bring it about. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted 11 hours ago Report Share Posted 11 hours ago 34 minutes ago, JamesB said: It’s difficult to quantify exactly what the current position is. The current Championship clubs are continuing to announce signings which seems to point to: Premiership A potential league of five teams: Belle Vue Kings Lynn Leicester Sheffield Ipswich The obvious elephant in the room is that two of these need to find new owners and we are in December. Even if new owners are found, the still major secondary problem is that a five team league is borderline unviable and potentially value destroying. Is there really going to be a new ‘unicorn’ club conjured up from somewhere? Championship Everything is pointing to this continuing in the existing format with the existing clubs. If you believe some of the rumours, there is an active position that if any of the existing Premiership clubs wanted to join, then they would be turned down. Outcomes If there is a scenario where either one or both of Ipswich and Sheffield do not find a new owner, then the Premiership is toast. This would mean that either: - The Championship is prepared to expand and accept the rump of the Premiership clubs. - Three, maybe four (whatever is left) of the Premiership clubs do not come to the tapes for the 2026 season. One League for 2026 Arguably, with the number of signings already made by Championship clubs, the boat has already sailed on this. Either, the Premiership clubs joining the one league would have to build teams from a very shallow pool both in terms of numbers and talent or the existing Championship clubs agree to wipe the board and each participant club in the one league starts to team build from scratch. I really cannot see the latter option being accepted by those who would need to. Worst Case A number of Belle Vue, Kings Lynn, Leicester, Ipswich and Sheffield do not come to the tapes for the 2026 season. Four of those clubs do not have any current issues with landlords, potential eviction, housing developments, etc. If this happens, then it has to be the absolute definition of insanity on the part of those who bring it about. ....or for 2026 only, the 5 Prem teams have a shortened league season, say June to August. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Posted 10 hours ago Report Share Posted 10 hours ago 3 hours ago, mikebv said: UK rider development should have been the No1 on their "to do" list, to ensure more supply than demand of riders, but instead we had foreign journeymen coming over and replacing each other using an ever spinning revolving door.. Totally agree - it would be good to ask promoters who were around 20 years ago (Elite league that is) what they think their legacy has been for the sport. Pretty sure you would get a reply of ‘ it was my business and I’ll run it to what the rules will allow’ Maybe a Sky tv deal was detrimental to the sport as it gave them lots of cash to do what they liked and provided nothing for the other 2 leagues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted 10 hours ago Report Share Posted 10 hours ago (edited) 32 minutes ago, Glen said: Maybe a Sky tv deal was detrimental to the sport as it gave them lots of cash to do what they liked and provided nothing for the other 2 leagues. Not sure how the cake was split Sky during the Sky years but let's not forget there was also a fair old sprinkling of 2nd tier coverage. Edited 10 hours ago by IainB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted 10 hours ago Report Share Posted 10 hours ago (edited) 16 minutes ago, IainB said: Not sure how the cake was split Sky during the Sky years but let's not forget they're was also a fair old sprinkling of 2nd tier coverage. Terry Russel had 2 million, the elite had just under 3 million which went mostly on some expensive no1s and about 50,000 went to the premier league (2nd tier) and what was left (£0) went to the buying of umbrellas for the rainy day which was to inevitably going to come Edited 10 hours ago by THE DEAN MACHINE 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therefused Posted 10 hours ago Report Share Posted 10 hours ago 46 minutes ago, SteveLyric2 said: ....or for 2026 only, the 5 Prem teams have a shortened league season, say June to August. this is probably what is going to happen at this point with the view of sorting the mess out for 2027, but they can barely manage to conjure up a league 4 months away let alone plan for 2027. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeOldPitGate Posted 10 hours ago Report Share Posted 10 hours ago 8 minutes ago, therefused said: this is probably what is going to happen at this point with the view of sorting the mess out for 2027, but they can barely manage to conjure up a league 4 months away let alone plan for 2027. Could be the best least worst case outcome if they have to run with five teams, twice home and away (defo not three times that will never run). With a view to trying something more sustainable/sellable for 2027. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted 10 hours ago Report Share Posted 10 hours ago 6 minutes ago, YeOldPitGate said: Could be the best least worst case outcome if they have to run with five teams, twice home and away (defo not three times that will never run). With a view to trying something more sustainable/sellable for 2027. ... assuming all PL clubs come out of 2026 unscathed and operational Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noaksey Posted 9 hours ago Report Share Posted 9 hours ago 5 hours ago, mikebv said: Just been listening to Talksport and 'Arry was on (for a change!).... Very disappointing... He spent his whole time on there discussing Spurs and Thomas Frank, with the end of his conversation mentioning the sad passing of Billy Bonds.... I thought he may have at least mentioned his thoughts on how the Berwick team were shaping up, or maybe what he felt about Peterborough potentially coming back, but running at Oxford, or even his views on whether opening a track at Northampton would be good for Speedway.. Nothing... Just Football.... Maybe his life long love for the sport has ended? Is Briggo a Spurs fan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTFC LION Posted 9 hours ago Report Share Posted 9 hours ago Just a thought, all the championship clubs signing riders, are the signed subject to confirmation by the league? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proud panther Posted 9 hours ago Report Share Posted 9 hours ago 15 hours ago, eric i said: BSPA hoping the sale of Sheffield and ipswich will be sorted quickly. Each team play each other 3x, top team straight through to final, 2nd and 3rd play off. People might not like a 5 team league but I think thats what is going to happen. I think that is the most likely outcome, & the AGM has been delayed in the vain hope of another team being formed to make it up to 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noaksey Posted 9 hours ago Report Share Posted 9 hours ago 2 minutes ago, proud panther said: I think that is the most likely outcome, & the AGM has been delayed in the vain hope of another team being formed to make it up to 6. Or getting the 5 in a position to run... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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