Teromaafan Posted Wednesday at 10:31 PM Report Share Posted Wednesday at 10:31 PM 20 minutes ago, Hawk127 said: Those in charge of the sport have created their own self inflicted nadir. It is not just about Ipswich or Mayfield (assuming they are officially the new owners of the Witches) it is collectively where the sport goes from here. Club owners/promoters are treating loyal supporters with such contempt, riders think the punters owe them a living and the up and coming talent is squeezed out by the double uppers who selfishly could not care one iota about the pipe stream of potential talent that is trying to break into the sport. Promoters, management and double uppers are the ruinous tribe who are bringing the sport to its knees and for it to survive a radical shake up is needed. Ipswich have ignited an issue but in reality the sport is on its knees and things need to change. Doubling up is the sport’s biggest problem for me. Whilst you could accuse riders of being greedy, they are only going along with what the controlling body permits. For that reason, you cannot blame riders for wanting to maximise their earnings. We all know that Premier League footballers are paid obscene money…..but if someone is prepared to offer these amounts? The BSPA are afraid of the (short term) consequences of doing away with doubling up, but it is essential for the future of the sport if it is to move forward. As I’ve said previously, riders should only be allowed to double up if they’ve been kicked in the b*lls. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted yesterday at 08:54 AM Report Share Posted yesterday at 08:54 AM 10 hours ago, Teromaafan said: Doubling up is the sport’s biggest problem for me. Whilst you could accuse riders of being greedy, they are only going along with what the controlling body permits. For that reason, you cannot blame riders for wanting to maximise their earnings. We all know that Premier League footballers are paid obscene money…..but if someone is prepared to offer these amounts? The BSPA are afraid of the (short term) consequences of doing away with doubling up, but it is essential for the future of the sport if it is to move forward. As I’ve said previously, riders should only be allowed to double up if they’ve been kicked in the b*lls. Doubling Up is cost effective for both leagues as they both can share the wages of the rider.. The top league certainly couldn't afford to pay third HL's and Second Strings what they earn collectively from their two jobs, given the GP riders will be high earners... And, if no doubling up, the second tier could only maybe afford one of these riders each in their teams, (rather than 3 which some have), resulting in them having to fill the bottom end of their teams with several NDL level riders... What started out as a laudable development tool has been allowed to become a farce.... Driven by the usual lack of any mid or long term plan to develop enough riders to compete (especially), in the 2nd tier... 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAST GATER Posted 4 hours ago Report Share Posted 4 hours ago 21 hours ago, mikebv said: Doubling Up is cost effective for both leagues as they both can share the wages of the rider.. The top league certainly couldn't afford to pay third HL's and Second Strings what they earn collectively from their two jobs, given the GP riders will be high earners... And, if no doubling up, the second tier could only maybe afford one of these riders each in their teams, (rather than 3 which some have), resulting in them having to fill the bottom end of their teams with several NDL level riders... What started out as a laudable development tool has been allowed to become a farce.... Driven by the usual lack of any mid or long term plan to develop enough riders to compete (especially), in the 2nd tier... Half the problem is riders trying to make a full time living out of the sport instead realising it's a paying hobby for the vast majority of them . 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siggytastic Posted 4 hours ago Report Share Posted 4 hours ago (edited) 8 minutes ago, FAST GATER said: Half the problem is riders trying to make a full time living out of the sport instead realising it's a paying hobby for the vast majority of them . As it was in the halcyon days of the late 60's and 70's Edited 4 hours ago by Siggytastic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAST GATER Posted 4 hours ago Report Share Posted 4 hours ago 5 minutes ago, Siggytastic said: As it was in the halcyon days of the late 60's and 70's True but I don't remember there being doubling down then only up ,once a rider was past it in the old first division they dropped down to the old NL and had a couple years there before leaving the sport . 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted 3 hours ago Report Share Posted 3 hours ago (edited) 52 minutes ago, FAST GATER said: True but I don't remember there being doubling down then only up ,once a rider was past it in the old first division they dropped down to the old NL and had a couple years there before leaving the sport . It was used as a development tool so riders could move up to see if they could compete, but with a safety net of being able to still ride in the 2nd tier if they were not of top tier level... Now it is the most important fundamental part of the operating model and business plan, even including which nights clubs have to race on... Incredible how it has been allowed to happen.... Edited 3 hours ago by mikebv 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeOldPitGate Posted 2 hours ago Report Share Posted 2 hours ago 40 minutes ago, mikebv said: It was used as a development tool so riders could move up to see if they could compete, but with a safety net of being able to still ride in the 2nd tier if they were not of top tier level... Now it is the most important fundamental part of the operating model and business plan, even including which nights clubs have to race on... Incredible how it has been allowed to happen.... The difference when I started going in the early/mid 80's was vast Joe Owen was the king of the national league but really struggled even at reserve in the old british league. Jen's Rasmussen was a 5 point Oxford reserve he dropped down and was virtually unbeatable in the old second division. When Havelock & Silver moved up two very gifted young riders at the time it still took them 2-3 seasons to bed in to the top league before they started to kick on. Now days other than a handful of riders the bulk plying their trade in the UK can be seen in both divisions for different teams. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin bass Posted 2 hours ago Report Share Posted 2 hours ago (edited) 2 hours ago, Siggytastic said: As it was in the halcyon days of the late 60's and 70's And the majority of the riders rocked up in the pits with 1 bike or 2 if they were lucky strapped to the back of a car, and if they had bike problems they'd fall back on the track spare to use, not like now where they all expect sponsored sign written vans with 3 or 4 bikes in the back. Edited 2 hours ago by kevin bass Correction 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAST GATER Posted 2 hours ago Report Share Posted 2 hours ago (edited) 19 minutes ago, YeOldPitGate said: The difference when I started going in the early/mid 80's was vast Joe Owen was the king of the national league but really struggled even at reserve in the old british league. Jen's Rasmussen was a 5 point Oxford reserve he dropped down and was virtually unbeatable in the old second division. When Havelock & Silver moved up two very gifted young riders at the time it still took them 2-3 seasons to bed in to the top league before they started to kick on. Now days other than a handful of riders the bulk plying their trade in the UK can be seen in both divisions for different teams. I agree there was a vast differences between the two leagues now the lines are so blurred , Bomber would have been a number one in old NL at his age no disrespect but Scott Nicholls would be no where near the old Gulf league at almost 50 yrs old . Edited 2 hours ago by FAST GATER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted 2 hours ago Report Share Posted 2 hours ago 23 minutes ago, kevin bass said: And the majority of the riders rocked up in the pits with 1 bike or 2 if they were lucky strapped to the back of a car, and if they had bike problems they'd fall back on the track spare to use, not like now where they all expect sponsored sign written vans with 3 or 4 bikes in the back. And all to try an win competitions with almost zero reward, and therefore, relevance... With their lack of jeopardy, consequence and authenticity, ensuring that the reward and relevance will always stay so small.... What a plan!!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PersonalResponsibility Posted 1 hour ago Report Share Posted 1 hour ago 1 hour ago, mikebv said: It was used as a development tool so riders could move up to see if they could compete, but with a safety net of being able to still ride in the 2nd tier if they were not of top tier level... Now it is the most important fundamental part of the operating model and business plan, even including which nights clubs have to race on... Incredible how it has been allowed to happen.... You say it's incredible but we should've seen it coming a mile off. As said, Premiership teams can fill their 3-7 with decent riders who are subsidised by Championship clubs, and Championship clubs can get 1/5s who are subsidised by their Premiership club. Everyone* benefits at the same time as saving every club some cash. It's the sort of thing speedway promoters dream of. *aside from fans, who have to watch the sport slowly wain over years and years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sings4Speedway Posted 1 hour ago Report Share Posted 1 hour ago 19 minutes ago, kevin bass said: And the majority of the riders rocked up in the pits with 1 bike or 2 if they were lucky strapped to the back of a car, and if they had bike problems they'd fall back on the track spare to use, not like now where they all expect sponsored sign written vans with 3 or 4 bikes in the back. Its not all down to the riders though. Promotors demand riders turn up with 2 x well maintained bikes. The turnaround time of fixtures and fragility of a modern bike compared a more durable older machine dictates that a third bike/spare is a practical option. Then theres milage picking Jason Edwards out as a standard british double upper (no offence meant) Jason has a 500 mile round trip to home meetings at Redcar. Multiply that by 10-15 depending on cup runs etc, then double it for away fixtures rough estimate 30k miles a year......who would be willing to put that on their own vehicle each year for no sensible offset against the depreciation 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted 1 hour ago Report Share Posted 1 hour ago 11 minutes ago, PersonalResponsibility said: You say it's incredible but we should've seen it coming a mile off. As said, Premiership teams can fill their 3-7 with decent riders who are subsidised by Championship clubs, and Championship clubs can get 1/5s who are subsidised by their Premiership club. Everyone* benefits at the same time as saving every club some cash. It's the sort of thing speedway promoters dream of. *aside from fans, who have to watch the sport slowly wain over years and years. And that is the frustration.. Like so many things, the obvious conclusion of so many of the ridicuous parts of the operating model and business plan have been warned about on here for donkeys years.. Yet. Those making the plan blindly carried on doing the same thing each year to deliver the obvious, and only, result of what we have today... An amazing "head in the sand" level of leadership.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeOldPitGate Posted 1 hour ago Report Share Posted 1 hour ago 3 minutes ago, Sings4Speedway said: Its not all down to the riders though. Promotors demand riders turn up with 2 x well maintained bikes. The turnaround time of fixtures and fragility of a modern bike compared a more durable older machine dictates that a third bike/spare is a practical option. Then theres milage picking Jason Edwards out as a standard british double upper (no offence meant) Jason has a 500 mile round trip to home meetings at Redcar. Multiply that by 10-15 depending on cup runs etc, then double it for away fixtures rough estimate 30k miles a year......who would be willing to put that on their own vehicle each year for no sensible offset against the depreciation As we all know there are no easy answers we are probably now at the stage of least worst choices, another big issue with doubling up is given the acute shortage of riders in the UK when someone like Lawson or Wright for example retire its not one but two teams that then have a problem of being a rider short for the next year. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted 1 hour ago Report Share Posted 1 hour ago 16 minutes ago, YeOldPitGate said: As we all know there are no easy answers we are probably now at the stage of least worst choices, another big issue with doubling up is given the acute shortage of riders in the UK when someone like Lawson or Wright for example retire its not one but two teams that then have a problem of being a rider short for the next year. You would have thought that, around at least, five years or so ago, "someone" would have noticed the ages of these lads who are now into their 30's and 40's, and thought... "Who will replace them?".... Obviously, around this time, "someone" also diluted the NDL level, and very few teams have ran a second team, or any meaningful NDL races during their meetings, possibly, due to riders no longer being assets? Meaning a team could train up a rider, financially support him, and then another team pays him more to join them.. A properly disjointed plan, which smacks of a lack of clear vision and leadership.... Which is really the ultimate issue for UK Speedway.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPEEDY69 Posted 1 hour ago Report Share Posted 1 hour ago 30 minutes ago, YeOldPitGate said: As we all know there are no easy answers we are probably now at the stage of least worst choices, another big issue with doubling up is given the acute shortage of riders in the UK when someone like Lawson or Wright for example retire its not one but two teams that then have a problem of being a rider short for the next year. There's actually quite a lot of riders who'll soon be hanging up their boots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin bass Posted 36 minutes ago Report Share Posted 36 minutes ago 23 minutes ago, SPEEDY69 said: There's actually quite a lot of riders who'll soon be hanging up their boots. Yeah Scotty,Harris,Troy.B, Lawson, King, Cook, Wright and Barker just off the top of my head are all late 30's or 40 plus, there's probably a few more ive missed and all. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted 19 minutes ago Report Share Posted 19 minutes ago (edited) 18 minutes ago, kevin bass said: Yeah Scotty,Harris,Troy.B, Lawson, King, Cook, Wright and Barker just off the top of my head are all late 30's or 40 plus, there's probably a few more ive missed and all. Which makes the lack of "one league", due to the level of riders it would need, even more baffling... There won't be any other answer than to use NDL second strings, and even reserves, to fill spaces in just a few years, so why wait? At least, starting this season, give these riders plenty of rides... EVERY meeting should have some NDL level races for those who are not tier two ready currently... Instead we have... ?????????? As a joined up development programme... Edited 17 minutes ago by mikebv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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