Why The Championship is dependent on there being a Premiership

[mikebv]

7 minutes ago, 1 valve said:

Good point. As we only see 30 or 40% of current Premier league riders in the Championship why do championship clubs charge so much I.e. 85/90% of Prem prices

Because they exepct riders to have at least two good bikes, a mechanic, and a van..

And turn up ready to race regardless of how many meetings they have had in the same week..

Often even at NDL level...

Hence the riders expect renumeration to buy and maintain (minimum), two good bikes, pay a mechanic and run a van...

All so one promoter in each league can end the season basking in the glory of winning such incredibly prestigious competitions...

 

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

47 minutes ago, SteveLyric2 said:

Another 'reality' is that there is far greater variety for the fans with the Championship fixtures, as well as being marginally cheaper, plus fans are able to see around 30- 40% of the same riders as in the Premiership ( it maybe higher as I haven't done the actual calculation). Attendances for Championship meetings are also mainly good ie Glasgow, Poole, Oxford, Redcar, so what's not to like?!

If/when the Premiership goes that won't be what you get though

If its one big league it will be watered down significantly  - its won't just be "lets set it as 1 over 8 to share out the No1s" All the hear leaders will be spread 2 everywhere instead of 3 along with 1 second string from each pair and all replaced by NDL standard

The only way to keep it as it is would be to close 4-5 clubs

If the costs are cut as many are suggesting you will lose some of the existing making it worse

Of course some will also carry on and accept the decrease

I wonder then if those healthy attendances will continue.....

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

1 hour ago, SpeedwaySlider72 said:

I place no blame at the door of riders on this front but both promoters and riders need to be realistic. Many riders ride one league and work hard to fund their careers through other means. Simon Lambert is a great example of this and all the credit to him.

With the greatest of respect but if the success level being aimed for is this then it is no longer a sport that should expect paying spectators 

At this stage it is a bit if fun with your mates and no more

[Tim G]

28 minutes ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

If/when the Premiership goes that won't be what you get though

If its one big league it will be watered down significantly  - its won't just be "lets set it as 1 over 8 to share out the No1s" All the hear leaders will be spread 2 everywhere instead of 3 along with 1 second string from each pair and all replaced by NDL standard

The only way to keep it as it is would be to close 4-5 clubs

If the costs are cut as many are suggesting you will lose some of the existing making it worse

Of course some will also carry on and accept the decrease

I wonder then if those healthy attendances will continue.....

Tbf there wasn’t many clubs in the premiership with healthy attendances last year.

Probaly one club made money so it shows the current format is totally flawed.

[SpeedwaySlider72]

30 minutes ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

With the greatest of respect but if the success level being aimed for is this then it is no longer a sport that should expect paying spectators 

At this stage it is a bit if fun with your mates and no more

Did you follow the sport maybe 10 to 20 years ago before this convoluted doubling up mess allowed for this new norm for riders to exist? Before this only the very best could make a full time living out of it. The sport didn't do too badly back then.

The height of ambition is not to be a semi-pro sport but that may be the medicine the sport needs at this time and we'll all need to accept it for the sport to move forward.

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

40 minutes ago, SpeedwaySlider72 said:

Did you follow the sport maybe 10 to 20 years ago before this convoluted doubling up mess allowed for this new norm for riders to exist? Before this only the very best could make a full time living out of it. The sport didn't do too badly back then.

The height of ambition is not to be a semi-pro sport but that may be the medicine the sport needs at this time and we'll all need to accept it for the sport to move forward.

Just the last 50 years or so

The world is very different and quite simply what was the norm in the 70s and 80s no longer holds any relevance 

Let's go back to one bike on a rack on the back of a Cortina with a liberal winding of gaffer tape and all will be well eh

GB had the major advantage of pretty much controlling the sport worldwide but by default rather than proficiency 

It's precisely because we haven't moved on sufficiently that we are in this mess

Poor facilities that in the main are not even owned by those in the sport

[truthsayer]

All things being equal there's logic to this, but losing teams means less employment opportunities anyway and skews the numbers.

Trades become redundant and business models change, and so it is here.

British speedway's reliance on ready made labour without developing its own talent is just one of the reasons for its inevitable demise as a professional sport. While I don't disagree with the premise of this post, the truth is the that its all just kicking the can down the road for another season at best.

Stakeholders have to accept that costs need to be reduced and that means riders based from outside of the UK need to be used more sparingly.

[SpeedwaySlider72]

4 hours ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

Just the last 50 years or so

The world is very different and quite simply what was the norm in the 70s and 80s no longer holds any relevance 

Let's go back to one bike on a rack on the back of a Cortina with a liberal winding of gaffer tape and all will be well eh

But the world wasn’t so different 10 to 20 years ago (late 00s and 10s). The riders had two bikes, the sport had a professional look, but the doubling up rot hadn’t set in.
 

The consequences of the doubling up mess are far reaching. Stifling opportunities for new riders, inflating rider income expectations, undermining the integrity of the sport, creating some belief that one league can’t operate without the other. 

[TB1]

15 minutes ago, SpeedwaySlider72 said:

But the world wasn’t so different 10 to 20 years ago (late 00s and 10s). The riders had two bikes, the sport had a professional look, but the doubling up rot hadn’t set in.
 

The consequences of the doubling up mess are far reaching. Stifling opportunities for new riders, inflating rider income expectations, undermining the integrity of the sport, creating some belief that one league can’t operate without the other. 

The doubling up disease started in 2003 with the ill fated British League Cup. 

[Ben91]

17 hours ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

 

Educated estimates - as I said show me I'm wrong - what do you think the figures are ? If you don't thinknits close to factual then put me right....

Iain I factored in 10 extra meetings already to mitigate some of the reduction

I haven’t got a clue. Wouldn’t even know where to start. But just as I can’t show you’re wrong (if you are), you can’t show your figures are right. Nil points for either of us sadly. 

Edited 16 hours ago by Ben91

[RS50]

20 hours ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

I'm alright Jack - our model is working....

It's a Premiership problem....

Why should we help sort it out....

Etc etc 

Well look at the facts of the funding and decide for yourself who will be left riding in the Championship at the same rates with no Premiership 

Take you typical double upper Championship heat leader riding as second string in the Premiership 

Approx 30 meetings in each league , 130-140 rides in each scoring approx 250 points in Premiership and 300 points in Championship.  Averages approx 6.50/8.50

For the sake of ease of calculation pay per point is £200 in Premiership and £100 in Championship (someone else can qualify how accurate that may be)

Income from Premiership £50,000

Income from Championship £30,000

Estimate of cost £20,000 initial plus season running costs £10,000 - total £30,000

Rider net profit £50,000

No Premiership - £50,000 down. Offset by reduced costs say £10,000 Generous allowance for extra 10 Championship meetings in bigger league £10,000

Rider net profit £20,000 - less than equivalent for minimum wage job

So there is already a significant question mark over the number of riders being sufficient to make a feasible league

How many seeing the above simply say no thanks?

It wouldn't need many to make that choice to render the whole set up unworkable

As the saying goes - Show me I'm wrong!

How does this work for championship riders who don't double up?

For example, I understand that last season, six of the Scunthorpe team only rode for that team only.

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

34 minutes ago, RS50 said:

How does this work for championship riders who don't double up?

For example, I understand that last season, six of the Scunthorpe team only rode for that team only.

You'd have to ask them

[1 valve]

23 hours ago, mikebv said:

Because they exepct riders to have at least two good bikes, a mechanic, and a van..

And turn up ready to race regardless of how many meetings they have had in the same week..

Often even at NDL level...

Hence the riders expect renumeration to buy and maintain (minimum), two good bikes, pay a mechanic and run a van...

All so one promoter in each league can end the season basking in the glory of winning such incredibly prestigious competitions...

 

Err don’t the riders use the same bikes, vans & mechanics for both Prem & Championship meetings?
Im really talking cost v benefit. Championship clubs feature significantly less top stars than the Prem but by comparison do not reduce their prices accordingly. 
 

[SteveLyric2]

2 hours ago, 1 valve said:

Err don’t the riders use the same bikes, vans & mechanics for both Prem & Championship meetings?
Im really talking cost v benefit. Championship clubs feature significantly less top stars than the Prem but by comparison do not reduce their prices accordingly. 
 

The bikes and engines can be different. Not sure what you mean by 'top stars'? If you mean GP-level riders then yes of course the Championship features fewer. However several Championship teams feature riders who also ride in the Premiership - some as heat leaders/

I would think Championship admission prices are at least an average £3-£5 cheaper than Premiership. Most other stadium/ meeting costs will be on a par.

Edited 4 hours ago by SteveLyric2

[1 valve]

59 minutes ago, SteveLyric2 said:

The bikes and engines can be different. Not sure what you mean by 'top stars'? If you mean GP-level riders then yes of course the Championship features fewer. However several Championship teams feature riders who also ride in the Premiership - some as heat leaders/

I would think Championship admission prices are at least an average £3-£5 cheaper than Premiership. Most other stadium/ meeting costs will be on a par.

My post was a response to a previous thread.  

[mac101]

Bomber not hanging around he has just signed for Pila in Poland 

[IainB]

5 minutes ago, mac101 said:

Bomber not hanging around he has just signed for Pila in Poland 

You're saying Poland are not hanging around to see what the UK are playing at? 😂

[old bob at herne bay]

Don't forget the fuel taps make a valid point, irrespective of how much £££  that anyone thinks a rider is paid. 

It is a fact with only one league they will not be racing in as many meetings per season and hence there will be less money on offer (assuming CL clubs arent going to suddenly double pay rates) 

Employing clubs may have to accept that a rider may not have 2 bikes, a mechanic and a van at every meeting ? Maybe each club should prepare a "track spare" available at every meeting should a rider have problems. 

There is certainly an air of the sport becoming more of a semi professional, or part time employment in the UK , with riders earning outside speedway and racing as a hobby. The days of every UK team member from 1 -7 turning up with 2 brand new bikes , a luxurious motorhome/van and a team of mechanics are surely over?   

Riders as self employed individuals have a choice.  

[1 valve]

59 minutes ago, SteveLyric2 said:

The bikes and engines can be different. Not sure what you mean by 'top stars'? If you mean GP-level riders then yes of course the Championship features fewer. However several Championship teams feature riders who also ride in the Premiership - some as heat leaders/

I would think Championship admission prices are at least an average £3-£5 cheaper than Premiership. Most other stadium/ meeting costs will be on a par.

My post was a response to a previous thread.  

[arnieg]

16 minutes ago, IainB said:

You're saying Poland are not hanging around to see what the UK are playing at? 😂

I'm sure Chris gets several offers from Poland every year. What is significant is that he has said yes to one. (He's ridden just 2 matches in the last 8 years in Poland).