Belle Vue v Sheffield KOC March 30th 7.30pm

[Bagpuss]

I'm finding some of this Cairns criticism OTT and rather odd to be honest. The lad is 16 and it was his first meeting as a fully fledged RS. I hope Rushen won't get this kind of hammering if he makes a slow start.

[IainB]

6 hours ago, Pinny said:

be fair to give him the season to see how he goes but so far it looks like hes just another over rated young British rider. Not his fault but the usual suspects for over hyping him. 

I mentioned this at the back end of last year, he failed to achieve a double figure score for Poole, from reserve, in the CL... Generally when somebody arrives on the scene with as much hype as Cairns did they at least put in one stand out score!

I hope he goes on to make it, but from what he's done on a 500 so far... I can't see it 🤷‍♂️

[Aries]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Elite_League_speedway_season

Just looking back to 2003 when John Louis chucked a 16 year old Danny King straight in to Elite league action, and he averaged 5.47 in a very very tough league full of quality. 
 

Cairns didn’t even manage that at reserve in a poor standard Championship. But that doesn’t mean he won’t progress to be a world class rider. 
 

Some of the best riders of all time started their careers slowly without much fanfare, while others who were hyped to the eyeballs early doors never progressed to anything other than average journeyman. It’s almost impossible to predict. 
 

Boughen was another who was hyped to death and look what happened there. Drew Kemp also. 

[Neila]

1 hour ago, Bagpuss said:

I'm finding some of this Cairns criticism OTT and rather odd to be honest. The lad is 16 and it was his first meeting as a fully fledged RS. I hope Rushen won't get this kind of hammering if he makes a slow start.

IMO Rushen is a far better prospect as he can gate a little, but his racing/passing is out of the world for a 15 now 16 year old and also seems to have the self promotion to put his name out and about, looking forward to seeing how this boy does, planning a trip across to Redcar when Poole come north just to watch the kid 😀 Another youngster to watch out for, but is only 9/10 years old at the moment is Oscar Berwick 😀

[IainB]

1 minute ago, Aries said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Elite_League_speedway_season

Just looking back to 2003 when John Louis chucked a 16 year old Danny King straight in to Elite league action, and he averaged 5.47 in a very very tough league full of quality. 
 

Cairns didn’t even manage that at reserve in a poor standard Championship. But that doesn’t mean he won’t progress to be a world class rider. 
 

Some of the best riders of all time started their careers slowly without much fanfare, while others who were hyped to the eyeballs early doors never progressed to anything other than average journeyman. It’s almost impossible to predict. 
 

Boughen was another who was hyped to death and look what happened there. Drew Kemp also. 

Ben Howe, Leigh Lanham and Savalas Clouting are 3 others that spring to mind

[Pinny]

1 hour ago, Bagpuss said:

I'm finding some of this Cairns criticism OTT and rather odd to be honest. The lad is 16 and it was his first meeting as a fully fledged RS. I hope Rushen won't get this kind of hammering if he makes a slow start.

Its not OTT and its not odd at all. Go and read what people said about Boughen then look at the same people slating him as over rated when the wheels come off. 
 

I will take my hat off to Cairns if and when he hits form as obviously would like him to be a future star of the sport but after 25 years of following speedway there have been many , many riders hailed as the next Lee or Loram who go on to do not a lot. 
 

All this nonsense that riders should be in the top tier needs to stop. Riders should be left to the bottom two tiers to develop not slung into the top flight as rising stars having their confidence dented week in week out. 

[Pinny]

9 minutes ago, Aries said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Elite_League_speedway_season

Just looking back to 2003 when John Louis chucked a 16 year old Danny King straight in to Elite league action, and he averaged 5.47 in a very very tough league full of quality. 
 

Cairns didn’t even manage that at reserve in a poor standard Championship. But that doesn’t mean he won’t progress to be a world class rider. 
 

Some of the best riders of all time started their careers slowly without much fanfare, while others who were hyped to the eyeballs early doors never progressed to anything other than average journeyman. It’s almost impossible to predict. 
 

Boughen was another who was hyped to death and look what happened there. Drew Kemp also. 

Danny King in 03 would of been british league cup for Ipswich not EL only meetings. Basically premier league standard at the time but point taken, as a 16 year old he was also streets ahead of Cairns.

 

[Aries]

Another example but in reverse, is Jason Doyle. Was knocking around the reserve berth at Poole on a 4 and a half point average approaching his mid twenties before something clicked! World Champion. Appreciate that’s a unique case that’s not exactly common. 
 

So on one hand best not to put too much expectation on youngsters who seem to have all the talent, but at the same time not write off riders who don’t immediately produce early in their career. 

[IainB]

13 minutes ago, Aries said:

Another example but in reverse, is Jason Doyle. Was knocking around the reserve berth at Poole on a 4 and a half point average approaching his mid twenties before something clicked! World Champion. Appreciate that’s a unique case that’s not exactly common. 

Floppy Norris was another, proving that when he put his mind to it he was actually quite a decent rider!

[YeOldPitGate]

18 minutes ago, Aries said:

Another example but in reverse, is Jason Doyle. Was knocking around the reserve berth at Poole on a 4 and a half point average approaching his mid twenties before something clicked! World Champion. Appreciate that’s a unique case that’s not exactly common. 
 

So on one hand best not to put too much expectation on youngsters who seem to have all the talent, but at the same time not write off riders who don’t immediately produce early in their career. 

Niels Iverson was another was pretty much an engine room rider for years went to Lynn when they were struggling and most thought he isn't number one material but kicked on and had a great carear.

[YeOldPitGate]

Agreed stacks of decent young british riders lost to the sport through being thrown into the deep end to early for every Screen, Loram and Lambert there's another 20-30 who although never hitting the heights could be the next Kings, Lawson's, Hurrys and have decent top league careers which would cut down on the need for flying in overseas riders.

[szkocjasid]

While I totally agree any criticism of a rider after ONE meeting is ridiculous, fans can't be blamed for expecting big things from Cairns as he was picked over others riders currently stronger than him.

Joe T, Harrison & Mulford all had greater Champ aves & may well have been stronger RS options.

So for Belle Vue to choose him ahead of them, means they expect Cairns to be stronger than them (at least by the end of the season) so by that logic fans may expect more (but not based on ONE meeting).

Also if a young rider wants to progress at their own rate without any pressure, maybe don't join a club like Poole who expect to win everything & don't ride in the Prem at just 16 years old?

[Wolfie456]

Lewis Bridger another one that springs to mind.

[Neila]

Maybe speedway is getting like F1 if you have money behind you, you can get a team place 🤔

[Bagpuss]

1 hour ago, Pinny said:

Its not OTT and its not odd at all. Go and read what people said about Boughen then look at the same people slating him as over rated when the wheels come off. 
 

I will take my hat off to Cairns if and when he hits form as obviously would like him to be a future star of the sport but after 25 years of following speedway there have been many , many riders hailed as the next Lee or Loram who go on to do not a lot. 
 

All this nonsense that riders should be in the top tier needs to stop. Riders should be left to the bottom two tiers to develop not slung into the top flight as rising stars having their confidence dented week in week out. 

It's odd to be hammering a young lad one meeting into the season IMO but there we are.

I'd far rather see our own youngsters at reserve than foreign tripe and at Lynn the most exciting element of this year's team is Scott and Rushen for me, can't wait to see them develop. 

You are right about the hype bit but thats not the riders fault as far as I can see, I'm sure he'd rather be left alone to develop at his own pace. It's us as fans who hype them up because very good ones seldom come around and we get all excited when it looks like one or two hit the scene.

Edited 2 hours ago by Bagpuss

[mikebv]

23 minutes ago, Bagpuss said:

It's odd to be hammering a young lad one meeting into the season IMO but there we are.

I'd far rather see our own youngsters at reserve than foreign tripe and at Lynn the most exciting element of this year's team is Scott and Rushen for me, can't wait to see them develop. 

You are right about the hype bit but thats not the riders fault as far as I can see, I'm sure he'd rather be left alone to develop at his own pace. It's us as fans who hype them up because very good ones seldom come around and we get all excited when it looks like one or two hit the scene.

And, ultimately, it won't make any difference to the popularity of the sport if these lads do come through to ever become World Champions...

The demise of which has actually accelerated during the time Havelock, Loram and Woffinden won their World Championships..

Should any UK lad become "World Class" they will be "owned" by Poland in their mid 20's, and quite possibly not even be riding over here...

Tom Brennan should be someone they see as a role model to follow...

Consistent, steady, improvement, as he has gained more experience....

[ouch]

1 hour ago, szkocjasid said:

While I totally agree any criticism of a rider after ONE meeting is ridiculous, fans can't be blamed for expecting big things from Cairns as he was picked over others riders currently stronger than him.

Joe T, Harrison & Mulford all had greater Champ aves & may well have been stronger RS options.

So for Belle Vue to choose him ahead of them, means they expect Cairns to be stronger than them (at least by the end of the season) so by that logic fans may expect more (but not based on ONE meeting).

Also if a young rider wants to progress at their own rate without any pressure, maybe don't join a club like Poole who expect to win everything & don't ride in the Prem at just 16 years old?

He only finished one race. Must admit after that one race I immediately decided he was rubbish and should be sacked. Norick wasn’t much better, scoring only one point and even that was when finishing last. He has to go as well. I think that’s reasonable.

[BluPanther]

Sorry, but hammering a 16 year old after one meeting, and only one completed race, is completely nuts. Some people have lost their minds...

[IainB]

Who is "hammering" him?

[YeOldPitGate]

Its equally often the case that the uber naturally talented riders are surpassed  by slightly less talented but more dedicated riders.

Three examples I can think of off the bat over the years Penhall was world champ v Kelly Moran who wasn't, T Rick multiple world champ v Henka who wasn't and Hancock four times v Hamill only once.

In my view Moran, Henka and Hamill were three more naturally talented riders than the other three mentioned but just lacked that extra 10% grit that the other three had to really scale the heights and become multiple world champions.

And just for the record I'm not implying Penhall, Rickardson and Hancock were slouches they were obviously far from it.