TTT Posted July 25 Report Share Posted July 25 Tonight's result was a shocker for the higher ups. Always run that risk with the qualifying set-up though and this year it's bitten them on the backside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Posted July 25 Report Share Posted July 25 The best system would be..... Top 4 overall. Next best 2 via GPs rounds contested / points scored. If a Wildcard wins a round, they'd be nailed on. Bewley & Holder despite injuries would be fine this year. 1 rider by league average from that country by league average for leagues in UK, Denmark & Sweden. Guarantees a Brit/Swede/Dane. If that rider qualifies by another means, 3rd in GPs rounds contested / points scored. European Champion. Challenge winner (no GP riders allowed). 1 fans social media vote. 1 pick from organisers. 2 wildcards (1 organisers pick, 1 social media fans vote). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szkocjasid Posted July 25 Report Share Posted July 25 1 hour ago, Daniel Smith said: Happens every year an absolute shocker of a rider makes it through 🤣 It's the reason I'll repeat again. The Speedway Grand Prix Series should be a closed shop. The best rider's in the world should be hand picked. The top 12 automatically qualify & the best 4 rider's with the highest amalgamation of averages from at least 2 leagues from:- •Ekstraliga •Elitserien •Speedway Ligaen •Premiership 100% disagree with that. I'd argue it's better to have a weak field that qualified than a strong field who got seeded. Problem with using averages is some positions are harder than others, riders could miss difficult meetings through injury, Zmarzlik's team mates don't race against him or are they in fact hindered by finishing behind him if bonus points didn't count. I do believe it would be better running the GP challenge after the final GP, top qualifiers vs bottom GP riders for the remaining spots, probably more chance of the top riders qualifying then. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szkocjasid Posted July 25 Report Share Posted July 25 1 hour ago, teijahn said: Far better meeting than I expected. Congrats to all 6 or maybe 7 qualifiers, and to Dave Goddard and commentary team for good coverage. A pleasant change from Kelvin and his parrot. The downside of the system of knockout comps that lead to the Challenge is that better riders can left behind due to injury/incidents/mechanicals (or in stronger countries lack of initial qualifying allocations) and thus enable a weak field and lower standard of qualifiers as has happened this year. Thomsen missed his qualifier due to injury, Piotr Pawlicki had only two rides in his, and Jan Kvech three in his. They are far better riders than many that made it here tonite. And for example Lidsey, Becker, and Rohan who all had blinders (for them) in the qualifiers continually prove that they cannot perform consistently at the top level. To my mind a better system to determine the top 15/16 riders for GP's would be use the seasons top riders from the league comps as the starting point for qualification. No rider under a 2.0 point heat average in the leagues (maybe 1.8 in Polish extraligue) is going to be competitive for a GP season. Some rider's can be brilliant in the leagues, but not able to do the same in the GPs, while others can perform on the big occasion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szkocjasid Posted July 25 Report Share Posted July 25 4 minutes ago, Col said: The best system would be..... Top 4 overall. Next best 2 via GPs rounds contested / points scored. If a Wildcard wins a round, they'd be nailed on. Bewley & Holder despite injuries would be fine this year. 1 rider by league average from that country by league average for leagues in UK, Denmark & Sweden. Guarantees a Brit/Swede/Dane. If that rider qualifies by another means, 3rd in GPs rounds contested / points scored. European Champion. Challenge winner (no GP riders allowed). 1 fans social media vote. 1 pick from organisers. 2 wildcards (1 organisers pick, 1 social media fans vote). I'd like to use that average GP score system to choose would cards, if your average score wouldn't put you in the top 7, you're not eligible for a wild card? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szkocjasid Posted July 25 Report Share Posted July 25 I'm not convinced Lindgren will get a wild card, if he's made a comeback for the league but not GPs, organisers may think "if he doesn’t prioritise us, why should we prioritise him"? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted July 26 Author Report Share Posted July 26 8 hours ago, TTT said: Good to see, Too many riders are far too friendly on the bike these days. Woryna has that old school ruthless streak in his blood. Easy 4 Wildcard picks as well. Bewley, Holder and Lindgren are rock solid GP riders who always qualify on merit. Fricke only has 1 good GP a year that puts him into Wildcard contention (Shouldn't be the case) but you can't give him one in 2027 as too many big consistent big hitters need one after missing most of the series through injury. Doyle's days are numbered at GP level and his GP talking points are the crashes and exclusions tbh. Kubera is bang average outside of Poland tbh and does nothing in the GP's. Kvech has had his chance and done nothing. 50/50 between Dudek and Thomsen and you'll have to give the 4th Wildcard to the latter if Dudek doesn't win a GP. Sorry but there are not 4 wildcards only 3, however there could be a 4th if the SEC winner has already qualified by virtue of a top 7 GP standing or a top 4 Challenge place. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwalker Posted July 26 Report Share Posted July 26 9 hours ago, TTT said: Good to see, Too many riders are far too friendly on the bike these days. Woryna has that old school ruthless streak in his blood. Easy 4 Wildcard picks as well. Bewley, Holder and Lindgren are rock solid GP riders who always qualify on merit. Fricke only has 1 good GP a year that puts him into Wildcard contention (Shouldn't be the case) but you can't give him one in 2027 as too many big consistent big hitters need one after missing most of the series through injury. Doyle's days are numbered at GP level and his GP talking points are the crashes and exclusions tbh. Kubera is bang average outside of Poland tbh and does nothing in the GP's. Kvech has had his chance and done nothing. 50/50 between Dudek and Thomsen and you'll have to give the 4th Wildcard to the latter if Dudek doesn't win a GP. Kvech has done 5 GP:s this year as a series reserve. Didn't do well in the first two but reached semi final on the last three. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTT Posted July 26 Report Share Posted July 26 1 hour ago, racers and royals said: Sorry but there are not 4 wildcards only 3, however there could be a 4th if the SEC winner has already qualified by virtue of a top 7 GP standing or a top 4 Challenge place. They're all stuffed then if the SEC winner isn't a rider qualified for the GP's. Bewley, Holder and Lindgren pick themselves as long as Freddie wants in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTT Posted July 26 Report Share Posted July 26 1 hour ago, Ghostwalker said: Kvech has done 5 GP:s this year as a series reserve. Didn't do well in the first two but reached semi final on the last three. He's had a chance as a full-time GP rider though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted July 26 Report Share Posted July 26 2 hours ago, Ghostwalker said: Kvech has done 5 GP:s this year as a series reserve. Didn't do well in the first two but reached semi final on the last three. 2 hours ago, Ghostwalker said: Kvech has done 5 GP:s this year as a series reserve. Didn't do well in the first two but reached semi final on the last three. Kvech is better than the majority of the riders in that GP Challenge tonight.IMO 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwalker Posted July 26 Report Share Posted July 26 54 minutes ago, TTT said: He's had a chance as a full-time GP rider though. You could say the same about Lindgren, Lambert (and MJJ IIRC). They (especially Lindgren) got chances to prove themselves but did not take it. However they improved and here we are with all three being really good in SGP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted July 26 Report Share Posted July 26 I know they qualified on merit but to see Tungate and Nilsson in the GP at the expense of Doyle and Fricke is just so poor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teijahn Posted July 26 Report Share Posted July 26 12 hours ago, TTT said: Good to see, Too many riders are far too friendly on the bike these days. Woryna has that old school ruthless streak in his blood. Easy 4 Wildcard picks as well. Bewley, Holder and Lindgren are rock solid GP riders who always qualify on merit. Fricke only has 1 good GP a year that puts him into Wildcard contention (Shouldn't be the case) but you can't give him one in 2027 as too many big consistent big hitters need one after missing most of the series through injury. Doyle's days are numbered at GP level and his GP talking points are the crashes and exclusions tbh. Kubera is bang average outside of Poland tbh and does nothing in the GP's. Kvech has had his chance and done nothing. 50/50 between Dudek and Thomsen and you'll have to give the 4th Wildcard to the latter if Dudek doesn't win a GP. There is only 5 points between 5th & 9th place (excluding Holder who will get a wildcard) with 4 GP's to go, that covers Woryna, Madsen, Fricke, Dudek & Thomsen. Three of those will likely fill out the top seven. Lebedevs and Doyle, a further six and eight points away, would need a couple of finals, unlikely on this years form, to feature in the seven. Thomsen is having a great season all round but will run out of GP's if Holder and Bewley are back for the last two. Unless the 4th wildcard comes into play from SEC duplication (and he gets it), or Freddie retires he will miss out unfortunately. As regards Kvech, who also will not make next years GP's he is a younger rider (for the modern age), having a great season and still on the improve. Highly likely that he can be a GP regular in the future. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teijahn Posted July 26 Report Share Posted July 26 1 hour ago, Whitelinehugger said: Tungate will be properly out of it in the GP’s bigtime I've been a fan of his for years, and in Aus he can often be as quick as anyone, but has not seemed to produce that same level in either UK or Poland He will need to find quite a few metres to be in the mix at GP level and at 36 years of age that's unlikely. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted July 26 Report Share Posted July 26 Unfair to criticise the Qualified riders.Its the system Thats flawed. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwalker Posted July 26 Report Share Posted July 26 14 hours ago, szkocjasid said: 100% disagree with that. I'd argue it's better to have a weak field that qualified than a strong field who got seeded. Problem with using averages is some positions are harder than others, riders could miss difficult meetings through injury, Zmarzlik's team mates don't race against him or are they in fact hindered by finishing behind him if bonus points didn't count. I do believe it would be better running the GP challenge after the final GP, top qualifiers vs bottom GP riders for the remaining spots, probably more chance of the top riders qualifying then. It can be done, but it would require som form of objective ranking system. Sort of a system where each meeting and heat result is weighted using som form av formulas depending on league/competition typ, riding position, opponents, heat score, meeting score. It would be very complicated and probably quite impractical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted July 26 Report Share Posted July 26 2 hours ago, Fromafar said: Unfair to criticise the Qualified riders.Its the system Thats flawed. Yes, the system is flawed, but, why can't we criticise the rider's?? Tungate is, always has been and always will be sh!t. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjcone44 Posted July 26 Report Share Posted July 26 6 hours ago, TTT said: He's had a chance as a full-time GP rider though. dont forget how old he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted July 26 Report Share Posted July 26 48 minutes ago, Daniel Smith said: Yes, the system is flawed, but, why can't we criticise the rider's?? Tungate is, always has been and always will be sh!t. So there was also a few sh#t riders on view last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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