Daniel Smith Posted July 26 Report Share Posted July 26 30 minutes ago, Fromafar said: So there was also a few sh#t riders on view last night. Absolutely, hence why I am adamant that the pinnacle of the sport should be a closed shop. All other world class forms of motorsport don't have qualifiers. All drivers/riders are hand picked as the best available. The best way for the SGP/FIM selectors to do that is by League racing from the top 4 divisions over a 3 season period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted July 26 Report Share Posted July 26 1 hour ago, Daniel Smith said: Yes, the system is flawed, but, why can't we criticise the rider's?? Tungate is, always has been and always will be sh!t. Doesn't Tungate have a 100% record in Grand Prix? Two starts, two wins in the 2017 Australian Grand Prix. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcatdiary Posted July 26 Report Share Posted July 26 6 hours ago, Gavan said: I know they qualified on merit but to see Tungate and Nilsson in the GP at the expense of Doyle and Fricke is just so poor Nothing stopping Doyle and Fricke going through the qualifiers 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted July 26 Report Share Posted July 26 36 minutes ago, Daniel Smith said: Absolutely, hence why I am adamant that the pinnacle of the sport should be a closed shop. All other world class forms of motorsport don't have qualifiers. All drivers/riders are hand picked as the best available. The best way for the SGP/FIM selectors to do that is by League racing from the top 4 divisions over a 3 season period. Not disagreeing but there are a lot more variables in Speedway compared too other Motorsports plus a lot more contestants at the sharp end in these sports. Let’s face at this time in GP series there are not many contenders for Championship 3or 4 possibly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc131 Posted July 26 Report Share Posted July 26 (edited) 1 hour ago, Daniel Smith said: Absolutely, hence why I am adamant that the pinnacle of the sport should be a closed shop. All other world class forms of motorsport don't have qualifiers. All drivers/riders are hand picked as the best available. The best way for the SGP/FIM selectors to do that is by League racing from the top 4 divisions over a 3 season period. Not always the best money buys them seats in f1 I'd rather see a rider get there on merit, at least they have earned the chance to fail or succeed. Edited July 26 by mc131 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted July 26 Report Share Posted July 26 2 hours ago, bigcatdiary said: Nothing stopping Doyle and Fricke going through the qualifiers Absolutely, anybody who doesn't get in next year but didn't try to qualify cannot complain I'm afraid. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwalker Posted July 26 Report Share Posted July 26 23 hours ago, RacersandRoyals88 said: I'd say Harris has put himself in contention for one of the 1st reserves 2027! thats a slight win Possible, but no guarantees since reserves are picked by FIM and not based by what position the finished at. Quote The SGP Commission also nominates a list of substitute riders, who will be called into Speedway GP events if any of the 15 permanent riders are forced out of a round due to injury, illness or other reasons. https://fimspeedway.com/en/sgp/rules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted July 26 Report Share Posted July 26 4 hours ago, Daniel Smith said: Yes, the system is flawed, but, why can't we criticise the rider's?? Tungate is, always has been and always will be sh!t. Think tonight’s match proved there’s not much between a Sh*t rider and a GP rider. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSmiler Posted July 26 Report Share Posted July 26 Baffles me why the Challenge was so early this year. It should always be contested AFTER the GP Series has concluded. It’s truly laughable that we have these “scenarios” now until the end of the season. If a rider is already in the top 7 after the Series ends then their spot is given to another rider. It should be top 4 only, end of. None of this maybe 5th/6th/7th. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted July 27 Author Report Share Posted July 27 (edited) 12 hours ago, bigcatdiary said: Nothing stopping Doyle and Fricke going through the qualifiers They would first of all have to get the Australian qualifying spots from the Australian Championships and the Oceania final. Edited July 27 by racers and royals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted July 27 Report Share Posted July 27 11 hours ago, Bagpuss said: Absolutely, anybody who doesn't get in next year but didn't try to qualify cannot complain I'm afraid. I get your point and on many levels I agree with you … Aussie qualifiers are tricky you have to do the Aussie champs which Doyle doesn’t as he is based and settled in the UK…. Unsure about Fricke situation…… but yes if Doyle wants to be in the series he could make the effort to do the qualifiers My point was that people bang on and on about ‘new blood’ in the GP’s and getting rid of certain riders…. I want the best 15 out there and like any qualification system you will never get that … the one off world finals had the 5 eastern block riders when quite clearly there was probably a dozen at least riders who missed out on the one offs. My point is now we have 2 riders … one new and one who has done it before and they simply are not as good as the riders they replacing ….. I would prefer Doyle and Fricke as they are better than Tungate and Nilsson by a mile …. But yes they didn’t do the qualifiers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPEEDY69 Posted July 27 Report Share Posted July 27 I'll stick to my prediction that Harris will be in the 2027 GP series 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted July 27 Report Share Posted July 27 46 minutes ago, SPEEDY69 said: I'll stick to my prediction that Harris will be in the 2027 GP series 🤣 More chance of Paco with his “connections “🤔😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPEEDY69 Posted July 27 Report Share Posted July 27 1 minute ago, Fromafar said: More chance of Paco with his “connections “🤔😂 Ha! Harris is two places above Paco though in the pecking order. If Lambert, Woryna, Lebedevs and Jepsen Jensen qualify from this years' GP then it's Tungate, Nilsson, Jakobsen and Harris who get in, unless I've got that wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted July 27 Author Report Share Posted July 27 1 hour ago, SPEEDY69 said: Ha! Harris is two places above Paco though in the pecking order. If Lambert, Woryna, Lebedevs and Jepsen Jensen qualify from this years' GP then it's Tungate, Nilsson, Jakobsen and Harris who get in, unless I've got that wrong? Yes in that scenario you are correct. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PersonalResponsibility Posted July 27 Report Share Posted July 27 22 hours ago, Ghostwalker said: It can be done, but it would require som form of objective ranking system. Sort of a system where each meeting and heat result is weighted using som form av formulas depending on league/competition typ, riding position, opponents, heat score, meeting score. It would be very complicated and probably quite impractical. I have been working on this for a while and you're right, it's not the most practical. I have got to the stage where I have 7 years of results for PL1/2, SWE & UK, and it has produced a list that looks broadly about right, but it'll never be perfect. Even looking beyond the track - do some riders try more in POL than elsewhere (probably)? There so many variables (way more than I ever considered) and I don't think we'll ever get a proper, accurate model. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcatdiary Posted July 27 Report Share Posted July 27 7 hours ago, racers and royals said: They would first of all have to get the Australian qualifying spots from the Australian Championships and the Oceania final. Which begs the question did either of them at least try. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted July 27 Author Report Share Posted July 27 11 minutes ago, bigcatdiary said: Which begs the question did either of them at least try. No Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teijahn Posted July 27 Report Share Posted July 27 (edited) 16 hours ago, Gavan said: My point is now we have 2 riders … one new and one who has done it before and they simply are not as good as the riders they replacing ….. I would prefer Doyle and Fricke as they are better than Tungate and Nilsson by a mile …. But yes they didn’t do the qualifiers Doyle and Fricke aren't yet replaced. Excluding Holder, who will continue to slip down the order, Fricke is currently 7th in standings, and two points off 5th place. Doyley faces a tougher situation being 12 points off 7th place. With 4 GP's to go quite a bit can change below the top 3/4 who have a buffer over the rest. Who has been replaced at this stage, and will remain replaced, is Parnitski and Kubera. I take your earlier point about the Aussie Quals being tricky, it must be a right pain in the proverbial for the better riders to have to come back here, bring motors/bikes for a one week ordeal involving 4 meetings spread over thousands of miles. Great for fans but very tough on riders and no doubt an expensive exercise, and at the present stage, there are 10 Aussies good enough on our tracks to be viable chances for one of the too few 3 or 4 allocations. As a number of us have commented on in this thread, the qualifying system has a number of flaws in it and does not assure that we wind up with the best 15/16 riders in the world. Its more of a junket for 2nd and 3rd tier riders than a serious attempt to discern the genuine top echelon of riders. There are more intelligent options, some of which have been bounced around in this thread, but unfortunately, intelligence doesn't seem to be a feature in the decisions of FIM and organizational levels of speedway. Edited July 27 by teijahn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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