Ronnie Russell

[stevehone 3,429]

1 minute ago, Wee Eck said:

I thought that was Len Silver’s doing?

Ronnie

[Wee Eck 703]

1 minute ago, stevehone said:

Ronnie

I didn’t know that. I’ve been maligning Len for years then 

[RobMcCaffery 2,752]

13 hours ago, Wee Eck said:

I didn’t know that. I’ve been maligning Len for years then 

Ronnie's justification was that he had no realistic option. He needed a number one and no suitable rider was available. Jens had lost his place in the top tier, was settled in Britain with a British partner and family. He was an EEC citizen who had the right to work in Britain. Someone was always going to break the BSPA's outdated system. To deny an EEC citizen employment , it was argued, was against basic EEC laws and its fundamental principle of freedom of employment and movement. 

Yes it opened the doors to all kinds of foreign riders, but the horse had in fact bolted in 1973 when we joined the EEC. There was a 'gentleman's agreement' in the BSPA to keep the old British & Commonwealth restriction but it could not last forever. 

Whether or not this would all have been upheld in a court of law is for a different forum to argue, but there was a very real chance that the sport could have been in a legal minefield.

It wasn't Ron's fault that other promoters chose to employ less suitable riders. There's no reason why you can't choose not to employ a rider because he's not god enough, just not because he's a foreigner.

Yes, it did cause longer-term problems but at the time I'd say it saved Rye House from closure, and if Ronnie hadn't moved then, how long before someone else did?

Ask yourselves this, why did the BSPA allow him to sign Jens?

 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2020 by RobMcCaffery

[HenryW 1,178]

2 hours ago, RobMcCaffery said:

It wasn't Ron's fault that other promoters chose to employ less suitable riders. There's no reason why you can't choose not to employ a rider because he's not god enough, just not because he's a foreigner.

That's an interesting statement. Wasn't he the first to sign a "less suitable" rider as well?

Rasmussen  may well have been a success in the league but Peter Schroeck certainly wasn't! 

[Triple.H. 1,986]

Yes

But he signed Peter Schroek too. If I remember correctly.

So 50% of the first influx of EEC riders at NL level weren't really upto the job.

HenryW must be top of the averages for fast typing

Edited February 8, 2020 by Triple.H.
HenryW and his speedy keyboard skills

[steve roberts 9,246]

51 minutes ago, Triple.H. said:

Yes

But he signed Peter Schroek too. If I remember correctly.

So 50% of the first influx of EEC riders at NL level weren't really upto the job.

HenryW must be top of the averages for fast typing

That's true but at least it gave one of my favourites 'Razzer' a team slot...someone who I always thought got a rough deal due to the points limit.

[RobMcCaffery 2,752]

8 hours ago, steve roberts said:

That's true but at least it gave one of my favourites 'Razzer' a team slot...someone who I always thought got a rough deal due to the points limit.

I could not condone Peter's signing and he was gone by the time I was back at Rue House working for Ronnie. Ironically he seems to be doing his 'bit' now although I was rather surprised to see his name re-appear a few years back. 

We had some hard times but Jens undoubtedly saved the club and his efforts with Glen Baxter to haul the Rockets over the finishing line in the later heats at Hoddesdon made for some exciting finishes as they fought to dig us out of whatever hole we had fallen into. 

The promoters should have been looking into keeping a minimum number of British riders. Even today Poland and Sweden practice having a minimum number of their riders. We could admit foreign riders but still limit their numbers. If it can be done in 2020 it could have been in 1990. Now, here's a controversial point. We had no problem letting Aussies ride in tier two yet people objected to EEC riders when the latter had the right to race here while the former, unless they had patriality, rode here as a privilege, not right. 

The theory was that instead of employing Aussies, and the few remaining Kiwis we should be using riders from Denmark, Sweden and the other EEC countries. 

The problem was allowing too many riders of low ability to replace British kids, but then speedway has always been short-sighted like that where a theoretically glamorous foreigner was seen as better box office than a local kid.

If only more promoters had taken John Berry's lead with his championship-winning team of Suffolk riders plus Billy Sanders who was seen as an adopted son of the county. There really is no substitute for the local hero, as we at Rye House knew only too well with Karl Fiala, Bob Garrad, Kelvin Mullarkey in particular, while not being from Hertfordshire were from neighbouring parts. 

Jens was also 'one of us'. He and his family mixed socially with the supporters and his country of origin was totally irrelevant to us. 

Ronnie opened a door but wasn't responsible for those let through.

 

Edited February 9, 2020 by RobMcCaffery

[steve roberts 9,246]

7 hours ago, RobMcCaffery said:

I could not condone Peter's signing and he was gone by the time I was back at Rue House working for Ronnie. Ironically he seems to be doing his 'bit' now although I was rather surprised to see his name re-appear a few years back. 

We had some hard times but Jens undoubtedly saved the club and his efforts with Glen Baxter to haul the Rockets over the finishing line in the later heats at Hoddesdon made for some exciting finishes as they fought to dig us out of whatever hole we had fallen into. 

The promoters should have been looking into keeping a minimum number of British riders. Even today Poland and Sweden practice having a minimum number of their riders. We could admit foreign riders but still limit their numbers. If it can be done in 2020 it could have been in 1990. Now, here's a controversial point. We had no problem letting Aussies ride in tier two yet people objected to EEC riders when the latter had the right to race here while the former, unless they had patriality, rode here as a privilege, not right. 

The theory was that instead of employing Aussies, and the few remaining Kiwis we should be using riders from Denmark, Sweden and the other EEC countries. 

The problem was allowing too many riders of low ability to replace British kids, but then speedway has always been short-sighted like that where a theoretically glamorous foreigner was seen as better box office than a local kid.

If only more promoters had taken John Berry's lead with his championship-winning team of Suffolk riders plus Billy Sanders who was seen as an adopted son of the county. There really is no substitute for the local hero, as we at Rye House knew only too well with Karl Fiala, Bob Garrad, Kelvin Mullarkey in particular, while not being from Hertfordshire were from neighbouring parts. 

Jens was also 'one of us'. He and his family mixed socially with the supporters and his country of origin was totally irrelevant to us. 

Ronnie opened a door but wasn't responsible for those let through.

 

Agree with most if not all of that Rob!

[iris123 20,979]

7 hours ago, RobMcCaffery said:

I could not condone Peter's signing and he was gone by the time I was back at Rue House working for Ronnie. Ironically he seems to be doing his 'bit' now although I was rather surprised to see his name re-appear a few years back. 

We had some hard times but Jens undoubtedly saved the club and his efforts with Glen Baxter to haul the Rockets over the finishing line in the later heats at Hoddesdon made for some exciting finishes as they fought to dig us out of whatever hole we had fallen into. 

The promoters should have been looking into keeping a minimum number of British riders. Even today Poland and Sweden practice having a minimum number of their riders. We could admit foreign riders but still limit their numbers. If it can be done in 2020 it could have been in 1990. Now, here's a controversial point. We had no problem letting Aussies ride in tier two yet people objected to EEC riders when the latter had the right to race here while the former, unless they had patriality, rode here as a privilege, not right. 

The theory was that instead of employing Aussies, and the few remaining Kiwis we should be using riders from Denmark, Sweden and the other EEC countries. 

The problem was allowing too many riders of low ability to replace British kids, but then speedway has always been short-sighted like that where a theoretically glamorous foreigner was seen as better box office than a local kid.

If only more promoters had taken John Berry's lead with his championship-winning team of Suffolk riders plus Billy Sanders who was seen as an adopted son of the county. There really is no substitute for the local hero, as we at Rye House knew only too well with Karl Fiala, Bob Garrad, Kelvin Mullarkey in particular, while not being from Hertfordshire were from neighbouring parts. 

Jens was also 'one of us'. He and his family mixed socially with the supporters and his country of origin was totally irrelevant to us. 

Ronnie opened a door but wasn't responsible for those let through.

 

Not correct on Aussie riders nor NZ. We had freedom of movement before the EEC and that was with our Commonwealth. Only if a country left the Commonwealth did they lose that right and on some cases caused us problems. I am thinking of the Asian people in was it Uganda who could have been left basically stateless as Idi Amin didn’t give them citizenship there. But also Australians were basically British ,as they had since year 1 always been affiliated to the ACU even before speedway came to the UK. It wasn’t until the 70s that they got their own qualifiers into the World Championship

[RobMcCaffery 2,752]

4 hours ago, iris123 said:

Not correct on Aussie riders nor NZ. We had freedom of movement before the EEC and that was with our Commonwealth. Only if a country left the Commonwealth did they lose that right and on some cases caused us problems. I am thinking of the Asian people in was it Uganda who could have been left basically stateless as Idi Amin didn’t give them citizenship there. But also Australians were basically British ,as they had since year 1 always been affiliated to the ACU even before speedway came to the UK. It wasn’t until the 70s that they got their own qualifiers into the World Championship

Thank you for a thoughtful response. My understanding was that all such prior arrangements, known as "Commonwealth Preference" were superseded by EEC regulations. Certainly products such as Anchor Butter and New Zealand Lamb were affected by this. The question of "Britishness" is answered by patriality. I suspect that the separation of Australian and New Zealand from the British ACU may have been a recognition of the changes and regularised an anomaly. 

As I said earlier there were aspects of our attempt to retain our special links with the Commonwealth and forge new ones with the EEC could be classified under the 'have cake and eat it principle". Either way we did manage to avoid what could have been a traumatic and expensive legal battle by granting EEC riders right of entry. 

We shall never know for sure, nor what the future will bring since, apart from transitional legislation following our exit from the EU that may temporarily retain EU citizens' right to live and work here, will we be looking to restore Commonwealth Preference? Will the need for visas for Aussies and Kiwis continue or are they now too linked with Asia for the past to be recreated? Would they want to after the snub of 1973?

 

Edited February 9, 2020 by RobMcCaffery

[iris123 20,979]

Yes, but we also banned commuting Swedish riders in I think 1974 !! Wasn't it only Olle Nygren and Sören Sjösten who avoided a ban ?

Also nothing really to d with anything apart from bans, but we also banned foreign riders back in 1934 I think. Which at the time only affected US, Danish and German riders. Ray Tauser, Morian Hansen and Sebastian Roth

More controversial than anything was someone suggested Morian Hansen was banned post war. Which considering he had joined the RAF and was a war hero on our side, was a terrible decision, if true

Edited February 9, 2020 by iris123

[RobMcCaffery 2,752]

6 minutes ago, iris123 said:

Yes, but we also banned commuting Swedish riders in I think 1974 !! Wasn't it only Olle Nygren and Sören Sjösten who avoided a ban ?

Sweden didn't join the EEC until 1995.

 

 

Edited February 9, 2020 by RobMcCaffery

[iris123 20,979]

5 minutes ago, RobMcCaffery said:

Sweden didn't join the EEC until 1995.

 

 

Good point, which I didn't realise

[steve roberts 9,246]

Apparently during the winter of 1975/76 the NL (British League Division Two) applied to be able to use EEC riders but were turned down by the British League Management Committee.

[RobMcCaffery 2,752]

10 hours ago, iris123 said:

Good point, which I didn't realise

I'd forgotten. You prompted me to look it up. About the only significant speedway nations that were in the EEC when we joined was Germany. Denmark and Poland came much later.