Endeavour 681 Posted October 25, 2021 I would prefer to see the rider who breaks the tapes to go off 15m. No option to bring in a reserve. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigcatdiary 3,165 Posted October 25, 2021 16 minutes ago, Endeavour said: I would prefer to see the rider who breaks the tapes to go off 15m. No option to bring in a reserve. Their is a better way, just exclude any rider who moves prior to the start when the green light is on, no replacement. This would eradicate all the nonsense at the tapes in a few meetings. Very few riders get excluded for a second offence in a meeting having been officially warned once, so they clearly know they get no leeway for trying to cheat. 9 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Endeavour 681 Posted October 25, 2021 23 minutes ago, bigcatdiary said: Their is a better way, just exclude any rider who moves prior to the start when the green light is on, no replacement. This would eradicate all the nonsense at the tapes in a few meetings. Very few riders get excluded for a second offence in a meeting having been officially warned once, so they clearly know they get no leeway for trying to cheat. Can see your point of view but referees would need to be more consistent at starts. Some let riders away with murder . I prefer refs that are sticklers for the rules. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IronScorpion 1,407 Posted October 25, 2021 1 hour ago, bigcatdiary said: Their is a better way, just exclude any rider who moves prior to the start when the green light is on, no replacement. This would eradicate all the nonsense at the tapes in a few meetings. Very few riders get excluded for a second offence in a meeting having been officially warned once, so they clearly know they get no leeway for trying to cheat. I mentioned the straight forward exclusion some years ago as it would also stop teams bringing in a reserve for an under performing rider. I am not too sure as a tape exclusion, as of now, counts as a ride where as a 2 minute exclusion even if at the tapes but gardening/delaying the start, counts. A "frustrated ride" is mentioned but is a fickle rule to understand as are others. Regarding your last paragraph, whether this has occurred at other meetings, we had a rider excluded for 2 offences but was announced that a new rule this year means that they are wiped clean so if a rider has a 3rd offence it becomes his 1st again. Straight forward exclusion, as you say, eradicates all the nonsense at the starts & the rider & team suffer having only the 1 rider at the tapes. Nice and easy rule to enforce, simple & effective plus no waiting around for another rider meaning the meeting is not dragged out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Endeavour 681 Posted October 25, 2021 6 minutes ago, IronScorpion said: I mentioned the straight forward exclusion some years ago as it would also stop teams bringing in a reserve for an under performing rider. I am not too sure as a tape exclusion, as of now, counts as a ride where as a 2 minute exclusion even if at the tapes but gardening/delaying the start, counts. A "frustrated ride" is mentioned but is a fickle rule to understand as are others. Regarding your last paragraph, whether this has occurred at other meetings, we had a rider excluded for 2 offences but was announced that a new rule this year means that they are wiped clean so if a rider has a 3rd offence it becomes his 1st again. Straight forward exclusion, as you say, eradicates all the nonsense at the starts & the rider & team suffer having only the 1 rider at the tapes. Nice and easy rule to enforce, simple & effective plus no waiting around for another rider meaning the meeting is not dragged out. At Glasgow v Edinburgh league play off Wells was excluded. He is up and down like a fiddlers elbow at Ashfield. Reserve Novak came in and won the race. You could argue it benefitted home team. In scheme of things didn’t really matter as we were well and truly trounced and Glasgow were worthy winners. No doubt all teams at some point have had strong reserves in same scenario. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RS50 359 Posted October 25, 2021 How about this? Keep the same options, but let the opposing team manager make the decision. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,276 Posted October 25, 2021 Poland have zero tolerance and dont seem to have many starting issues and races start promptly.. Start Marshall walks away, and if a rider moves back, then the ref tells him and he returns to move the rider forward.. The Final at Peterborough had some riders six inches from the tapes.. No need for so many extra Mickey Mouse rules to be added if they just implemented some rules that they have properly.. Although there would need a comms system from ref to start marshall like Poland have... Two plastic cups and a piece of string may work..? 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Triple.H. 1,986 Posted October 25, 2021 50 minutes ago, RS50 said: How about this? Keep the same options, but let the opposing team manager make the decision. I like that, brings team management more into the game much like the TS rule back in the day Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Technik 491 Posted October 26, 2021 The start marshal's need to be stronger & in a lot of cases less biased. Riders must be no more than 4 inchs away from the tapes. The tapes should be the same hight as the centre of the front wheel so that if a rider moves he will touch the tape instead of going under them before they move. A two minute clock needs to be in place & used correctly. If the rider is not ready at zero then out he go's & the Refs must not turn it off when it gets to 10 seconds to give riders more time to garden. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Humphrey Appleby 13,955 Posted October 26, 2021 14 hours ago, IronScorpion said: I mentioned the straight forward exclusion some years ago as it would also stop teams bringing in a reserve for an under performing rider. I am not too sure as a tape exclusion, as of now, counts as a ride where as a 2 minute exclusion even if at the tapes but gardening/delaying the start, counts. A "frustrated ride" is mentioned but is a fickle rule to understand as are others. A tapes exclusion counts as a ride for average purposes, but not for the purpose of calculating minimum rides unless the rider is not replaced. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iainb 5,016 Posted October 26, 2021 It seems perfectly simple to me, a rider should have 2 minutes to be at the start ready to race, if they touch the tapes they are excluded, what's difficult about that? Any of the other starting shenanigans are always up to interpretation, so why have them. So what if a rider gets a flyer or anticipates the start, this used to add a bit of unpredictability into proceedings, I still remember Jason Gage beating Hans Nielsen at Peterborough because he got a flyer... and Andy Meredith out trapping Hans at Coventry with Nielsen making a right pickle of trying to get round him. From the Speedway I've seen in this country, this season, the starts haven't really been an issue, I don't know if anything has changed but it doesn't seem as bad as in previous years. Watching some Swedish Speedway on the other hand and some of their starts have been terrible and you can almost guarantee the first race of every TV match will be called back... such an anti-climax. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenga 2,998 Posted October 26, 2021 i remember Neil Collins @workington going off 30 mtrs when he broke the tapes, went off 15 mtrs and then jumped the start and was put back another 15 mtrs . instead of possing about with the silly rules of speedway .even when this rule was introduced the refs did not know how to use it . why dont the kings n queens of speedway get their act together and run speedway in the summer months and give the promoters chance to make a bit of profit from the WINTER play offs in the summer .crazy sport , even crazier mup pets in charge of a good sport for self gain . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Humphrey Appleby 13,955 Posted October 26, 2021 4 hours ago, iainb said: It seems perfectly simple to me, a rider should have 2 minutes to be at the start ready to race, if they touch the tapes they are excluded, what's difficult about that? I think the argument was that being excluded for tape touching doesn't benefit the team, unlike (say) laying down a bike during a race when on a heat disadvantage. The reserve replacement will usually not be better, and they could have been put in the race anyway if the team had really wanted to gain a tactical advantage. Frankly though, using potentially unreliable tapes to detect a false start is pretty old fashioned anyway. Just get rid of the tapes and use a laser beam to detect it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
old bob at herne bay 828 Posted October 26, 2021 Let 'em roll creep push and stretch the tapes as much as they dare after the start marshall walks away. Ref lets the tapes up when the rolling rider is moving backwards and is left at the gate. However if the tapes are broken ....that rider is EXCLUDED. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cityrebel 2,960 Posted October 26, 2021 5 hours ago, jenga said: i remember Neil Collins @workington going off 30 mtrs when he broke the tapes, went off 15 mtrs and then jumped the start and was put back another 15 mtrs . instead of possing about with the silly rules of speedway .even when this rule was introduced the refs did not know how to use it . why dont the kings n queens of speedway get their act together and run speedway in the summer months and give the promoters chance to make a bit of profit from the WINTER play offs in the summer .crazy sport , even crazier mup pets in charge of a good sport for self gain . Chris Harris did the same thing at Lakeside. He seemed as far back as the Dartford tunnel! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites