chunky 6,092 Posted April 18, 2020 1 minute ago, steve roberts said: Probably a lot of truth in that...although best of mates I'm sure that pride was at stake even as advisors to rival riders. Happens in all sports... We had Bristow and Lowe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nw42 2,048 Posted April 18, 2020 1 minute ago, steve roberts said: Probably a lot of truth in that...although best of mates I'm sure that pride was at stake even as advisors to rival riders. Most definitely, I imagine they both gave all the help they could to ensure their protege took the honours. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Garry1603 353 Posted April 18, 2020 9 minutes ago, nw42 said: Most definitely, I imagine they both gave all the help they could to ensure their protege took the honours. A little bit of 'reflected glory' as well no doubt 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve roberts 9,246 Posted April 18, 2020 4 hours ago, iris123 said: As norbold said you do make some good contributions. Not trying to lecture you, just friendly advice. I know from experience that I made what I thought was a relatively innocuous post about Dave Morton and it escalated into a few pages of back and forth and I still don’t know how, apart from you don’t like other opinions or facts It would be better if all of us just let things go sometimes. And I include myself Good point and in total agreement. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
E I Addio 15,845 Posted April 18, 2020 11 hours ago, norbold said: Yes, I certainly agree about Knutson. Being a West Ham supporter, I had the great fortune of seeing Knutson and Harrfeldt week in and week out. I would definitely agree that Knutson would certainly have given Mauger a run for his money. He was class personified. They always say it was his nerves that got the better of him on the big occasion and that was why he didn't win more world titles. Not sure how true that is, but I expect that after winning once and proved himself he would have gone on to dominate the sport in the late 60s and maybe into the 70s. Harrfeldt, I'm not so sure about. Yes, he was a great rider, as his 2nd place in 1966 showed, and he may have gone on to win a world title, but I don't think he was quite in the Fundin, Briggs, Knutson, Mauger class. My thoughts entirely , but on the subject of Knutson, are you aware of the actual reason he retired so early norbold ? I’ve heard people speculate on it and based on ah interview in SS I formed the impression that he felt he had had a good run, reached the pinnacle of World Champion, and came through relatively unscathed apart from a broken arm, so he decided to quit while he was in front, but that’s just my impression and I’ve always wondered about the real reason . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norbold 7,109 Posted April 18, 2020 1 hour ago, E I Addio said: My thoughts entirely , but on the subject of Knutson, are you aware of the actual reason he retired so early norbold ? I’ve heard people speculate on it and based on ah interview in SS I formed the impression that he felt he had had a good run, reached the pinnacle of World Champion, and came through relatively unscathed apart from a broken arm, so he decided to quit while he was in front, but that’s just my impression and I’ve always wondered about the real reason . My understanding of what happened to Knutson was partly as you say, also that his form suffered in 1966 because he was getting too involved in his business interests and unable to concentrate as he would have liked on speedway so he decided he couldn't continue with both and it was speedway that had to give. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sidney the robin 4,735 Posted April 19, 2020 15 hours ago, norbold said: I'm sorry, Sidney, but iris is right. It's such a shame because most times on these Years Gone By posts you usually have some interesting things to say, but really, you don't do yourself any favours when you get into these sort of personal rants about people just because you happen to disagree with them. You have to look on how Chunky sometimes talks down to people Norbold nothing to do with being right or wrong.Yes i get it WRONG 99 per cent of the time i admit that sometimes the word FACT gets used wrongly.I don't dislike Chunky never met the guy but it is odvious he dislikes me and usually gets himself involved in twit/for tat with me.The shame of it is that Steve, yourself, Bewitcher, Split ( etc) add great contributions to the forum and it is usually enjoyable to read. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sidney the robin 4,735 Posted April 19, 2020 On 4/17/2020 at 10:15 AM, one of clubs said: For me, Tai was not a patch on PC. One was a rider who won all there was to win, turned up and proudly rode for their country winning ten world championship honours, and was the darling of the sport and further popularised it at the time. The other was, in comparison, someone who could not be arsed, as it was all about him. Sad but true. I agree 100 per cent with you is it right or wrong? who knows it is just funny that Chunky never responded to you.Yet he concentrated all his efforts on my posts not a surprise really.!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fatface 2,554 Posted April 19, 2020 16 hours ago, Garry1603 said: Fair enough. Gundersen was also an Elite rider (to put it mildly!), just think Neilsen was a little bit more consistent and wouldn't have any 'poor' meetings which might have ultimately cost him. We'll never know, both were superstars! Interesting that in world final head to heads, including run offs, Gundersen won 8 of the 11 races with Nielsen. It's very interesting to discuss which world champions would still have been had the GP system been in place them and vice versa. But very difficult to accurately say, because both required entirely different approaches. One rewards the ability to peak on a given high pressure occasion, the other high quality consistency over a sustained period. I've worked closely in athletics and seen the former approach up close. Athletes will "compete" through the season, but it is all towards being in maximum peak performance condition for the Olympics. Quite often there are athletes who will get beaten on the circuit, but they have been balancing heavy training with competition where they are testing tactics/techniques and by the time they get to the big one, they are ready to win. In speedway terms, in short, I think Gundersen would have adapted. I don't think Nielsen would have dominated quite as much as some think. Gundersen had an unnerving ability to deliver when it mattered and I reckon he would have done the same under a GP system. Similarly, I have also seen Mark Loram's win sometimes questioned and yet I think the GP format was - on paper - a trickier format for him than a one-off. On a given day he was well capable of beating the world's best and that year, he was consistently brilliant. So in my mind, it was thoroughly deserved. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve roberts 9,246 Posted April 19, 2020 17 minutes ago, falcace said: Interesting that in world final head to heads, including run offs, Gundersen won 8 of the 11 races with Nielsen. It's very interesting to discuss which world champions would still have been had the GP system been in place them and vice versa. But very difficult to accurately say, because both required entirely different approaches. One rewards the ability to peak on a given high pressure occasion, the other high quality consistency over a sustained period. I've worked closely in athletics and seen the former approach up close. Athletes will "compete" through the season, but it is all towards being in maximum peak performance condition for the Olympics. Quite often there are athletes who will get beaten on the circuit, but they have been balancing heavy training with competition where they are testing tactics/techniques and by the time they get to the big one, they are ready to win. In speedway terms, in short, I think Gundersen would have adapted. I don't think Nielsen would have dominated quite as much as some think. Gundersen had an unnerving ability to deliver when it mattered and I reckon he would have done the same under a GP system. Similarly, I have also seen Mark Loram's win sometimes questioned and yet I think the GP format was - on paper - a trickier format for him than a one-off. On a given day he was well capable of beating the world's best and that year, he was consistently brilliant. So in my mind, it was thoroughly deserved. Yes I'm sure that there is some truth in that but I still think that Nielsen's record (and I watched him closely for nine seasons at many varying tracks) would have borne fruit if the GP series had been around during the eighties. Interesting that there was an article in 'Backtrack' many years ago on this very subject and John Berry tended to come down in favour of Nielsen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fatface 2,554 Posted April 19, 2020 4 minutes ago, steve roberts said: Yes I'm sure that there is some truth in that but I still think that Nielsen's record (and I watched him closely for nine seasons at many varying tracks) would have borne fruit if the GP series had been around during the eighties. Interesting that there was an article in 'Backtrack' many years ago on this very subject and John Berry tended to come down in favour of Nielsen. If you asked me to compile a list of the most skillful speedway riders ever, he'd be top or bloody close to the top. If you asked me to compile a list of the best riders in high pressure situations, he'd slip a bit. In the end, I'd finish sitting on the fence a bit and saying that the world championship split between Gundersen and Nielsen would be about the same GP or one off format. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve roberts 9,246 Posted April 19, 2020 11 minutes ago, falcace said: If you asked me to compile a list of the most skillful speedway riders ever, he'd be top or bloody close to the top. If you asked me to compile a list of the best riders in high pressure situations, he'd slip a bit. In the end, I'd finish sitting on the fence a bit and saying that the world championship split between Gundersen and Nielsen would be about the same GP or one off format. Just checking John Berry's "More Confessions" and he broke down into three categories when wishing to come up with his best ever. They were for "Skill", "Equipment" & "Mental Strength" Mauger 9 - 10 - 9-5 Rickardsson 9-5 - 9.5 - 9.5 Nielsen 9.5 - 9.5 - 9 Briggs 9 - 8.5 - 10 Fundin 9.5 - 8.5 - 9.5 Olsen 9.5 - 9 - 9 Penhall 9 - 9.5 - 9 Collins 9 - 9 - 9 Gundersen 9 - 9 -9 j.Crump 9 - 9 - 9 Lee 9.5 - 9.5 - 7 Michanek 9 - 8.5 - 8 His analysis on each rider I found interesting and obviously very much open to personal opinions/observation. Interesting he gave 'Briggo' a ten for "mental strength" but when you read John's close analysis you can see why! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
customhouseregular 1,651 Posted April 19, 2020 13 hours ago, E I Addio said: My thoughts entirely , but on the subject of Knutson, are you aware of the actual reason he retired so early norbold ? I’ve heard people speculate on it and based on ah interview in SS I formed the impression that he felt he had had a good run, reached the pinnacle of World Champion, and came through relatively unscathed apart from a broken arm, so he decided to quit while he was in front, but that’s just my impression and I’ve always wondered about the real reason . Bjorne had panache, Sverre had dash. Bjorne had what it took to win more titles. Sverre in full flight could have been champion. What I do know is that having Knutson, Harrfeldt, Hunter, McKinlay and Simmons at Custom House made Hammers fans very happy. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DC2 11,150 Posted April 19, 2020 3 minutes ago, steve roberts said: Just checking John Berry's "More Confessions" and he broke down into three categories when wishing to come up with his best ever. They were for "Skill", "Equipment" & "Mental Strength" Mauger 9 - 10 - 9-5 Rickardsson 9-5 - 9.5 - 9.5 Nielsen 9.5 - 9.5 - 9 Briggs 9 - 8.5 - 10 Fundin 9.5 - 8.5 - 9.5 Olsen 9.5 - 9 - 9 Penhall 9 - 9.5 - 9 Collins 9 - 9 - 9 Gundersen 9 - 9 -9 j.Crump 9 - 9 - 9 Lee 9.5 - 9.5 - 7 Michanek 9 - 8.5 - 8 His analysis on each rider I found interesting and obviously very much open to personal opinions/observation. Interesting he gave 'Briggo' a ten for "mental strength" but when you read John's close analysis you can see why! Collins only 9 for skill? I’d have thought 9.5, but only 8.5 for equipment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sidney the robin 4,735 Posted April 19, 2020 16 hours ago, chunky said: Not in your eyes, apparently. Seems like you think I am a stupid tw*t... Far from it Chunky i enjoy your posts very much and you are far from being a prat.No malice on my part and a full opology from me which is geniune ok. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites