The Elite league

[Skidder1 7,637]

4 minutes ago, baiden said:

While pay is an issue for the superstars, it's more volume of matches that are keeping some of the B-List riders away I think. Attracting the A-Listers will be difficult, but there's definitely scope for more stars to come back if they didn't have to race in as many meetings.

Remove the Polish rule, reduce the amount of meetings, and I'm sure there would be far more interest from riders (I hope).

Whichever Prem club they could sign for, there are only 5 other teams so 'racing in so many meetings' shouldn't be an issue!?

[baiden 90]

10 minutes ago, Skidder1 said:

Whichever Prem club they could sign for, there are only 5 other teams so 'racing in so many meetings' shouldn't be an issue!?

There may only be 5 other teams, but you're still talking a maximum of 36 meetings a year (20 league meetings, 4 playoff meetings, 6 cup matches and 6 pairs rounds - plus anything else I may have forgotten).

Even in a worst/best case scenario that a team doesn't reach the playoffs/cup final and the rider doesn't compete in the pairs, it's still 24 meetings per year. Far more than many would like if they are also riding elsewhere in the world.

[mikebv 10,285]

6 hours ago, BuxtonTiger said:

How can we possibly have the Polish superstars back? Who is going to pay for them with current crowds.

As I say, Discovery would need to have deep pockets..

If they are serious on their promises to make Speedway a bigger global brand, then a resurgence in the UK would be quite fundamental to it happening  I would think..

Every place a Polish riding star takes is one less DU if nothing else...

Losing the "3 club" rule will also free up a fair few 2nd and 3rd level riders too, which again will reduce the spaces to DU...

As you say, attendances won't pay the increases, but Discovery might...

And then maybe attendances will rise significantly off the back of it...?

[enotian 562]

11 hours ago, ch958 said:

riding more fixtures remember - and coming up against other top boys less regularly, so yes to a degree. 

they wouldn't be riding more fixtures would they. If you look at league fixtures only (assume cups and Play Offs are as is) they're doing 20 PL and 20 or 18 CL. With a 10 team PL you'd be doing a max 36. So not too much difference but that's only if the PL clubs want to stage 18 home fixtures as opposed to the current 10? They're more likely to only want to stage 9 home fixtures (so as not to dilute the TV and sponsorship income) which would mean a rider going from c38 league matches to 18 league matches.

and if the teams are reduced to six men then you probably end up facing the top riders just as often.

the sums just don't add up for clubs or riders regardless of it being the right thing to do. reality is that the revised structure won't deliver the increases through the turnstiles to allow the clubs to afford the increases in rider rates, to compensate them for the reduced number of fixtures.

the Pandora's box of doubling up once opened is difficult to close

[mikebv 10,285]

12 hours ago, enotian said:

they wouldn't be riding more fixtures would they. If you look at league fixtures only (assume cups and Play Offs are as is) they're doing 20 PL and 20 or 18 CL. With a 10 team PL you'd be doing a max 36. So not too much difference but that's only if the PL clubs want to stage 18 home fixtures as opposed to the current 10? They're more likely to only want to stage 9 home fixtures (so as not to dilute the TV and sponsorship income) which would mean a rider going from c38 league matches to 18 league matches.

and if the teams are reduced to six men then you probably end up facing the top riders just as often.

the sums just don't add up for clubs or riders regardless of it being the right thing to do. reality is that the revised structure won't deliver the increases through the turnstiles to allow the clubs to afford the increases in rider rates, to compensate them for the reduced number of fixtures.

the Pandora's box of doubling up once opened is difficult to close

I suppose if the Poles relax the rules you could get those 3rd/4th/5th level riders (who make up the majority of places in teams), being able to ride "all over" again to compensate...

France, Italy, Germany, Denmark, Sweden could all "chip in" to dilute the impact of DU'ing being reduced? 

One league in the UK, Poland, and three or four of the above would deliver a fair few rides and plenty of money I would think..

Fixed nights would come into their own then too, as Div 1 over here would facilitate a rider to ride everywhere apart from Sweden on a Thursday..

Div 2 would have issues though as it would be their HL's now plying their trade around Europe again..

Edited July 12, 2022 by mikebv

[GWC 495]

If Woffinden Lambert and Bewley came back to the U.K. that would be a huge boost to the Premiership but can’t see it at the moment.

Sweden is going (to go) the same way as the U.K. with interest falling alarmingly, again I would say through lack of top Swedish riders.

I think after the pandemic U.K. had the chance to reorganise and have one professional league to employ the stay at home riders and from overseas - mostly Aussies and where would be without them!

The sport is becoming Northern dominated as stadiums in the south come under pressure through ever increasing land values and housing requirements.

[sommelier1 40]

To get the Polish riders over to the UK you are going to have to pay strong money. the cost of machinery, minimum of 2 bikes, mechanics' transport . They have to demand high price. Its like I'm i would think the likes of Oscar Paulch the 16 year old sensation could be tempted to the UK for a season if a club as long arms & deep pockets! 

[chunky 6,094]

On 7/11/2022 at 5:50 AM, Skidder1 said:

Yes but the reduction of speedway clubs has been as much to do with stadium closures as it has been the fault of speedway promotions!!

You surely can't blame the speedway clubs at Coventry, Lakeside, Somerset and Swindon for example!  They would all still be racing if the stadia were available.

What I've been saying for years... The state of British speedway isn't solely due to mismanagement within speedway. In particular, speedway used to be a city centre sport, but most of the tracks we have now are out in the sticks, and invisible to most of the population.

[steve roberts 9,246]

10 hours ago, chunky said:

What I've been saying for years... The state of British speedway isn't solely due to mismanagement within speedway. In particular, speedway used to be a city centre sport, but most of the tracks we have now are out in the sticks, and invisible to most of the population.

Personally I think also that speedway not featuring in London is a factor as not having a track operating in the capitol doesn't catch the attention of the mass media.

[chunky 6,094]

1 hour ago, steve roberts said:

Personally I think also that speedway not featuring in London is a factor as not having a track operating in the capitol doesn't catch the attention of the mass media.

Of course, but that goes hand-in-hand with speedway being forced out of the city centres. Look at all the London tracks we had; only Hackney could be considered a "rural" location, and even then, it was only a couple of hundred yards from one of the busiest roads in London.

[Humphrey Appleby 13,958]

4 hours ago, steve roberts said:

Personally I think also that speedway not featuring in London is a factor as not having a track operating in the capitol doesn't catch the attention of the mass media.

F1 doesn't have a track operating in London either, but still gets plenty of attention. 

The 'mass media' is much less important than it once was. Few under the age of 50 read newspapers or even watch mainstream TV these days, so the opportunities are there for sports that can gain attention through other channels. 

The problem of course, is that speedway is largely followed by people well over 50 and unfortunately has been unable or unwilling to address that underlying issue for the past 20-30 years. Just as an example, any sport of any credibility has an app where you can get news and live results, but does British speedway? The SGP now has one which is a start, but even that's somewhat lame (e.g. its developers are apparently unable to even make a proper logo for it). 

[Humphrey Appleby 13,958]

15 hours ago, chunky said:

What I've been saying for years... The state of British speedway isn't solely due to mismanagement within speedway. In particular, speedway used to be a city centre sport, but most of the tracks we have now are out in the sticks, and invisible to most of the population.

In truth it was always a fairly marginal sport with few or no wealthy benefactors, and to a certain extent has fallen victim to land pressures and environmental concerns that have forced it from prime locations. But Hackney in particular was basically situated within what became the London Olympic park and the sport apparently did nothing to ensure it was included amongst the other minority sports that had facilities built for them. That sums up the mismanagement of speedway down the years.

[baiden 90]

10 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

F1 doesn't have a track operating in London either, but still gets plenty of attention. 

The 'mass media' is much less important than it once was. Few under the age of 50 read newspapers or even watch mainstream TV these days, so the opportunities are there for sports that can gain attention through other channels. 

The problem of course, is that speedway is largely followed by people well over 50 and unfortunately has been unable or unwilling to address that underlying issue for the past 20-30 years. Just as an example, any sport of any credibility has an app where you can get news and live results, but does British speedway? The SGP now has one which is a start, but even that's somewhat lame (e.g. its developers are apparently unable to even make a proper logo for it). 

Absolutely, couldn't agree more with that. I was always shocked at the average age of the crowd in this country. To me speedway in the UK has all the factors that should attract a younger audience, but it just doesn't seem to be able to do it.

It is possible though. I've been to a few meetings in Poland and it's a much younger audience (no surprise, given its popularity - and the fact each club has a marketing team of about four people).

I was also surprised when Oxford started up again, they've done a really good job at attracting all ages. There are a few older faces that naturally returned, but the average age has to be closer to 30. Plenty of kids around as well. At least that's certainly the case around where I stand. And it always seems to be a decent crowd, close to 2,000 each time. But,  as has been mentioned, the big problem is that the Cheetahs are totally at the mercy of the stadium owners. They've got a 10-year lease now, but after that, no matter how large the crowds are, it could just as easily be closed down again.

[Humphrey Appleby 13,958]

19 minutes ago, baiden said:

I was also surprised when Oxford started up again, they've done a really good job at attracting all ages. There are a few older faces that naturally returned, but the average age has to be closer to 30. Plenty of kids around as well. At least that's certainly the case around where I stand. And it always seems to be a decent crowd, close to 2,000 each time. But,  as has been mentioned, the big problem is that the Cheetahs are totally at the mercy of the stadium owners. They've got a 10-year lease now, but after that, no matter how large the crowds are, it could just as easily be closed down again.

Oxford speedway, in many respects, has always been Oxford's sports team and is situated right at the heart of its core demographic within the city. Oxford United - even though it's had its successes (and many failures) is always going to be a lower league team, whereas the Cheetahs have featured world-class riders and been amongst the best teams in the world in the past. 

Edited July 13, 2022 by Humphrey Appleby

[iainb 5,018]

1 hour ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

F1 doesn't have a track operating in London either, but still gets plenty of attention. 

The 'mass media' is much less important than it once was. Few under the age of 50 read newspapers or even watch mainstream TV these days, so the opportunities are there for sports that can gain attention through other channels. 

The problem of course, is that speedway is largely followed by people well over 50 and unfortunately has been unable or unwilling to address that underlying issue for the past 20-30 years. Just as an example, any sport of any credibility has an app where you can get news and live results, but does British speedway? The SGP now has one which is a start, but even that's somewhat lame (e.g. its developers are apparently unable to even make a proper logo for it). 

Wouldn't worry about London too much, it's basically a different country to the rest of the UK...

British Speedway may not have an app, but it does have an excellent podcast, very 2022!