FAST GATER 853 Posted October 1, 2023 2 hours ago, MattB said: Barring injury/someone stepping up/Zmarzlik's standards dropping you can certainly see him roaring past Mauger and Rickardsson, though they had tougher opposition. Having watched the sport for many years I think that the standard of riders across the sport particularly in Poland are as good as they ever were .IMO Bart is just so much better than the rest plus he has matured and is consistent which is crucial in winning world titles on a regular basics . 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MattB 177 Posted October 1, 2023 24 minutes ago, FAST GATER said: Having watched the sport for many years I think that the standard of riders across the sport particularly in Poland are as good as they ever were .IMO Bart is just so much better than the rest plus he has matured and is consistent which is crucial in winning world titles on a regular basics . He's certainly matured quicker. I notice he's broken the record for the youngest rider to win 4 titles. Just by comparison. Greg Hancock 44 Hans Nielsen 35 Ivan Mauger 33 Barry Briggs 31 Tony Rickardsson 31 Ove Fundin 30 Bartosz Zmarzlik 28 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fromafar 10,364 Posted October 1, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, FAST GATER said: Having watched the sport for many years I think that the standard of riders across the sport particularly in Poland are as good as they ever were .IMO Bart is just so much better than the rest plus he has matured and is consistent which is crucial in winning world titles on a regular basics . Would agree he has matured a lot and the scoring system plays to his strengths makes most Semi Finals with ease then steps up a level. Edited October 1, 2023 by Fromafar 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keepturningleft 589 Posted October 1, 2023 So, BZ wins his 4th title at the age of 28. At the age of 28, Ivan Mauger won his first title! The mind boggle as to what BZ could achieve in the coming years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chunky 6,094 Posted October 1, 2023 6 hours ago, MattB said: He's certainly matured quicker. I notice he's broken the record for the youngest rider to win 4 titles. Just by comparison. Greg Hancock 44 Hans Nielsen 35 Ivan Mauger 33 Barry Briggs 31 Tony Rickardsson 31 Ove Fundin 30 Bartosz Zmarzlik 28 Remember, Bartek is actually younger than Ivan was when he won his first! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FAST GATER 853 Posted October 1, 2023 40 minutes ago, chunky said: Remember, Bartek is actually younger than Ivan was when he won his first! Only injury will stop him getting those seven titles IMO ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
arnieg 3,643 Posted October 2, 2023 10 hours ago, Fromafar said: Would agree he has matured a lot and the scoring system plays to his strengths makes most Semi Finals with ease then steps up a level. Bartosz and Freddie 18 semis - 16 finals reached Dan and Robert - 15 semis - 4 finals That's where it is won and lost. 5 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fromafar 10,364 Posted October 2, 2023 1 hour ago, arnieg said: Bartosz and Freddie 18 semis - 16 finals reached Dan and Robert - 15 semis - 4 finals That's where it is won and lost. Like you say that’s the difference. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,284 Posted October 2, 2023 1 hour ago, arnieg said: Bartosz and Freddie 18 semis - 16 finals reached Dan and Robert - 15 semis - 4 finals That's where it is won and lost. Robert maybe less so, but Dan definitely, doesnt mix it anywhere close to the way both Zmarzlik and Lindgren do... That is why they consistently end up at the "sharp edge" of the meeting.. Jack Holder of the "young brigade" seems to be the one who isnt bullied by "close to the edge" racing and doesnt get intimidated when racing with Zmarzlik at close quarters like many do.. Fricke, for the first time, showed he can mix it when getting "Bartek Speared" on that 3rd turn, lap one, "nailing" that he does so often, so maybe that will give him greater confidence in being tougher generally going forward.. So many points that the likes of Zmarzlik, Lindgren and Doyle in particular score are down to simply 100% commitment to a gap that may, or may not, be there... Holder is definitely nearer those three now in his riding, and could be Zmarzliks biggest threat over the next few years.. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grachan 7,362 Posted October 2, 2023 4 minutes ago, mikebv said: Robert maybe less so, but Dan definitely, doesnt mix it anywhere close to the way both Zmarzlik and Lindgren do... That is why they consistently end up at the "sharp edge" of the meeting.. Jack Holder of the "young brigade" seems to be the one who isnt bullied by "close to the edge" racing and doesnt get intimidated when racing with Zmarzlik at close quarters like many do.. Fricke, for the first time, showed he can mix it when getting "Bartek Speared" on that 3rd turn, lap one, "nailing" that he does so often, so maybe that will give him greater confidence in being tougher generally going forward.. So many points that the likes of Zmarzlik, Lindgren and Doyle in particular score are down to simply 100% commitment to a gap that may, or may not, be there... Holder is definitely nearer those three now in his riding, and could be Zmarzliks biggest threat over the next few years.. I agree that Holder looks the most likely to emerge from the pack as the main challenger. Bewley has it in him though. He has so much natural ability, but you can actually see him stiffen on the bike whenever there is a bit of tight racing and he inevitably ends up behind everyone. He can overcome that, though. Needs a good mentor in his corner, perhaps, to get him to the next level. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fromafar 10,364 Posted October 2, 2023 26 minutes ago, mikebv said: Robert maybe less so, but Dan definitely, doesnt mix it anywhere close to the way both Zmarzlik and Lindgren do... That is why they consistently end up at the "sharp edge" of the meeting.. Jack Holder of the "young brigade" seems to be the one who isnt bullied by "close to the edge" racing and doesnt get intimidated when racing with Zmarzlik at close quarters like many do.. Fricke, for the first time, showed he can mix it when getting "Bartek Speared" on that 3rd turn, lap one, "nailing" that he does so often, so maybe that will give him greater confidence in being tougher generally going forward.. So many points that the likes of Zmarzlik, Lindgren and Doyle in particular score are down to simply 100% commitment to a gap that may, or may not, be there... Holder is definitely nearer those three now in his riding, and could be Zmarzliks biggest threat over the next few years.. Would agree regarding Holder.Fricke is frustrating he definitely has the skills but just goes missing at times. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fatface 2,554 Posted October 2, 2023 19 minutes ago, Grachan said: I agree that Holder looks the most likely to emerge from the pack as the main challenger. Bewley has it in him though. He has so much natural ability, but you can actually see him stiffen on the bike whenever there is a bit of tight racing and he inevitably ends up behind everyone. He can overcome that, though. Needs a good mentor in his corner, perhaps, to get him to the next level. Agree. There are a lot of contenders who are really on the downward curve of their career....Doyle and Lindgren are in that pack, Woffinden too. Zmarzlik could get to 8 or 9 titles in the coming years unless Holder or Bewley step up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bojangles 594 Posted October 2, 2023 16 minutes ago, fatface said: Agree. There are a lot of contenders who are really on the downward curve of their career....Doyle and Lindgren are in that pack, Woffinden too. Zmarzlik could get to 8 or 9 titles in the coming years unless Holder or Bewley step up. Did you say Lindgren? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fatface 2,554 Posted October 2, 2023 9 minutes ago, Bojangles said: Did you say Lindgren? Yes. As well as he has done and as good as he is, he is not going to get any better and is not going to get the better of Zmarzlik. That's obvious enough by now isn't it? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bojangles 594 Posted October 2, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, fatface said: Yes. As well as he has done and as good as he is, he is not going to get any better and is not going to get the better of Zmarzlik. That's obvious enough by now isn't it? Well, he arguably got better this year. It was his highest ever finishing position, so it's a bit harsh to say he's on a 'downward curve of his career'. Just because Lindgren can't be Zmarzlik across a season, it doesn't mean he's starting to regress. A lot of people are looking for riders to beat Zmarzlik, but the fact is there aren't any. Dominance happens in many sports, just have to accept it....one day someone will come along and end the reign, and it can come from anywhere. I remember Miguel Indurain dominating the Tour de France, he was so much better than everyone else and looked unbeatable for many years - then suddenly out of nowhere Bjarne Riis arrived in 1996. Edited October 2, 2023 by Bojangles Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
