Workington 2025

[IainB]

2 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

Not really, all you got to do is ask them , there is no closing ranks, I just think it’s nobody else’s business what riders earn that said speedway as it is now  speedway can’t sustain it and having been on both sides of the fence I am trying to come up with ideas to keep both sides happy because as I see it that’s not what’s happening 

All I asked was what can a CL heat leader expect to earn, no specifics. Not sure why as somebody in the know couldn't put a number on this. I could, of course, look at riders' limited company accounts but with so many riders riding for so many clubs it's difficult to get a picture on a riders earnings from a particular club.

I did look at a specific top current CL riders' accounts and was surprised to see that none had been submitted since 2019!!!

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

3 minutes ago, IainB said:

All I asked was what can a CL heat leader expect to earn, no specifics. Not sure why as somebody in the know couldn't put a number on this. I could, of course, look at riders' limited company accounts but with so many riders riding for so many clubs it's difficult to get a picture on a riders earnings from a particular club.

I did look at a specific top current CL riders' accounts and was surprised to see that none had been submitted since 2019!!!

If your referring to me as someone in the know I’m not, I have no association with the bspl or scb and have been in the past a thorn in their side and haven't they let me know, what I have is friends that I’ve built up over the years through the sport on both sides of the fence and that includes fans and we have a mutual trust of what we would pass on,imagine if I or they were to break that trust and tell the forum what they earn or what I earn (just for the record I haven’t got a pot to piss in ) others may feel it’s ok and that’s fine but I just feel riders income is a private thing unless they don’t mind telling it 

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

Anyway enough cackling about what we don’t know let’s just get Workington back to the tapes and wish them well in this current hiccup 

[Ray Stadia]

I've lost the thread (excuse the pun) of what is being discussed, regarding Workington's predicament, but I have picked up discussions on Limited Companies. Most businesses do not need to be 'limited' (unless the BSPL insist on it. If they do, I don't know why they would). A speedway promoter, if there are no restrictions could be a sole trader, in other words self employed. However, if I was a speedway promoter, I would want to be limited, to protect my personal assets. A number of promoters are business people and have another business or businesses. I would imagine, as speedway is a loss making venture, promoters, via their accountants, would use the losses to offset against profits, they make in their other enterprises. As for riders having a limited company, why would you bother and not just be self employed? 

[Beirao]

26 minutes ago, IainB said:

All I asked was what can a CL heat leader expect to earn, no specifics. Not sure why as somebody in the know couldn't put a number on this. I could, of course, look at riders' limited company accounts but with so many riders riding for so many clubs it's difficult to get a picture on a riders earnings from a particular club.

I did look at a specific top current CL riders' accounts and was surprised to see that none had been submitted since 2019!!!

Riders will be self employed and few if any would have set up limited companies. Most speedway accounts are described as "unaudited and filleted" in accordance with the appropriate company regulations. As such they are a simple balance sheet from which liquidity and profitability can be deduced, though the extent of sponsorship isn't revealed. 

[Youhave2minutes]

5 hours ago, piston197 said:

What you can see is 2 other companies both in Andrew Bain's name where they have both been threatened with action and then dissolved, one where his occupation is "Director" and one where his occupation is "Labourer "

I think we are on a sinking ship😭

[MattB]

1 hour ago, IainB said:

I don't really think it breaks anybody's personal privacy to say a CL heat leader can expect to earn in the region of £xx,xxxx?

It's all so cloak and dagger, smoke and mirrors. It's one of the few sports where earnings and prize monies are such closely guarded secrets. Sports such as golf and tennis are very open about these things.

The only promoter I can recall ever publishing attendance figures was Tony Mole when he was at Long Eaton in tbe 1990s, but that didn't last long because the other promoters told him to stop doing it.

[arnieg]

18 minutes ago, Beirao said:

Riders will be self employed and few if any would have set up limited companies. Most speedway accounts are described as "unaudited and filleted" in accordance with the appropriate company regulations. As such they are a simple balance sheet from which liquidity and profitability can be deduced, though the extent of sponsorship isn't revealed. 

And often less than that. For an example:

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/09407442/filing-history/MzM1NjU1NDk0OWFkaXF6a2N4/document?format=pdf&download=0

[IainB]

29 minutes ago, Ray Stadia said:

As for riders having a limited company, why would you bother and not just be self employed? 

Because it's massively beneficial tax wise... you can employ family members and withdraw money out of your company tax free, that's just one example, there are many "loopholes" to exploit. 

[singy13]

41 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

Anyway enough cackling about what we don’t know let’s just get Workington back to the tapes and wish them well in this current hiccup 

Yes.....as the great man Winston used to say KBO !!!

[Sir Sidney]

3 hours ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

Would you like to tell us all on here how much your income is please because we would all like to know and all your outgoings, how much your pension plan is and any relevant financial dealings you have because we are nosey and feel it is our right to such information 

I worked in Local Government where everyone was on fixed pay scales based on grading, so everyone knew what my salary was. 

I don't think the original question was about individual rider’s payments, but about averages. Not an unreasonable interest. 

I also think it would be of interest to know, roughly,  what the costs of staging a meeting and running a club are. 

When Wimbledon was a PLC it published it's accounts - not at a level which allowed you to know how much individual riders earned, but it did show as far as I recall what the rider costs were for example. 

The published accounts for any club that is a limited company are available, but generally only the balance sheet not the income and expenditure account. 

Edited June 30 by Sir Sidney

[Marky_Mark]

Could it be that someone else is coming in to run/promote Workington and the delay is transferring all of the assets, contracts and visas over to the new company?

[Ray Stadia]

2 hours ago, IainB said:

Because it's massively beneficial tax wise... you can employ family members and withdraw money out of your company tax free, that's just one example, there are many "loopholes" to exploit. 

I'm self employed, I have been for many years. I could be a director of a limited company, but there wouldn't be any benefit for me. I can employ a family member. As for drawing money out of a limited company, tax free, what's the mechanics of that? You can draw dividends and take a small salary, but you pay tax on dividends. 

[IainB]

13 minutes ago, Ray Stadia said:

I'm self employed, I have been for many years. I could be a director of a limited company, but there wouldn't be any benefit for me. I can employ a family member. As for drawing money out of a limited company, tax free, what's the mechanics of that? You can draw dividends and take a small salary, but you pay tax on dividends. 

You take £12,570 out without paying any income tax, you have your wife as secretary or something, another £12,570, your mum as admin or cleaner or something, another £12,570 etc. etc.

You could be on flat rate VAT meaning you can keep a portion of the VAT you charge your customers, if you're brave enough you can put pretty much what you want through expenses, I used to work with a bloke who put a Caribbean holiday through as an expense on the pretense that he was looking to do work out there and it was an exploratory trip... it all comes off your profit that you're paying just 20% Corporation Tax on. 

I run a limited company myself but I play it straight down the line as the last thing I want is a call from the tax man and any investigation... I'm probably too much of a coward but I've known others down the years who have really taken the pish.

And of course if the ** do go up you're not personally liable. 

Edited June 30 by IainB

[Ray Stadia]

13 minutes ago, IainB said:

You take £12,570 out without paying any income tax, you have your wife as secretary or something, another £12,570, your mum as admin or cleaner or something, another £12,570 etc. etc.

You could be on flat rate VAT meaning you can keep a portion of the VAT you charge your customers, if you're brave enough you can put pretty much what you want through expenses, I used to work with a bloke who put a Caribbean holiday through as an expense on the pretense that he was looking to do work out there and it was an exploratory trip... it all comes off your profit that you're paying just 20% Corporation Tax on. 

I run a limited company myself but I play it straight down the line as the last thing I want is a call from the tax man and any investigation... I'm probably too much of a coward but I've known others down the years who have really taken the pish.

And of course if the ** do go up you're not personally liable. 

Your last line is the biggest benefit, but of course, a speedway rider will not have to worry about peronal liabilities, unless they intend to 'knock' people who provide them with services, eg, engine tuners.  

[SteelShoe]

4 hours ago, IainB said:

I don't really think it breaks anybody's personal privacy to say a CL heat leader can expect to earn in the region of £xx,xxxx?

It's all so cloak and dagger, smoke and mirrors. It's one of the few sports where earnings and prize monies are such closely guarded secrets. Sports such as golf and tennis are very open about these things.

It is probably so the poorer clubs fans won't be too flabbergasted at what there club was competing against when gazumped on a rider offer by one of the big boys 😃

[tyretrax]

19 hours ago, AndiCapp said:

Nopeeee

Some see things in black and white but a couple on here only see things in negtive.

[A.N.Other]

1 hour ago, Marky_Mark said:

Could it be that someone else is coming in to run/promote Workington and the delay is transferring all of the assets, contracts and visas over to the new company?

Got to admit, I have been curious about the increasing presence and keen involvement of George English, ex Newcastle Diamonds promoter. Hmmm ?

[paul84]

23 hours ago, 2ndbend123 said:

Go Fund for human error or management being incompetent get a grip!

There has been a go fund for a break in and storm damage.

The fans have paid enough!

The only club that runs cash only system rings alarm bells. Dodged the tax man for too long. Over 50 sponsors board around the track were as that money gone?

From what I have heard Workington are in deep trouble. Not to mention there will be a big fine from the BSPA for this are we setting a go fund up for this? 
 

The club is run by a crook time to wake up

 

I’d say Andrew and the rest of the promotion are entitled to alot more respect than the label of a “Crook” 

Im sure you’ve witnessed the amount for efforts and money that has been put into Workington Speedway at Northside , regardless of what people speculate this promotion have done everyone proud in the work they’ve done.

Edited June 30 by paul84

[dellbob]

2 minutes ago, paul84 said:

I’d say the Andrew and the rest of the promotion are entitled to alot more respect than the label of a “Crook” 

Im sure you’ve witnessed the amount for efforts and money that has been put into Workington Speedway at Northside , regardless of what people speculate this promotion have done everyone proud in the work they’ve done.

Well said Andrew brought speedway back trying his hardest to make it work and just gets slated for it 

I hope it is all sorted shortly and I hope the fans get behind the whole of Northside to make it work 

10 out of 10 for all involved at Workington