Popular Post mikebv Posted 9 hours ago Popular Post Report Share Posted 9 hours ago 40 minutes ago, Steve Irving said: Judging by the attendance when Ipswich staged the “Tiger’s academy open” meeting a few weeks ago, including the latest Great British hope Cooper Rushen, I’d say you’re wrong and spectacularly wrong. Look, people on this forum are obviously die hard fans of the sport where any level of speedway is seen as great. But they’re in a tiny tiny minority. I’ve seen someone say on here recently that we don’t need the “GP Stars” because riders of a far lesser ability can provide “just as good racing”. But that isn’t reflected in the attendance the further you go down the Speedway pyramid. The NDL is pitifully attended. You can literally stand there and count the supporters in between races. So not many actually want to see “Johnny Local” making his way to better things at all. The hugely successful Championship that has their “house in order”, is also embarrassingly attended. You’ll get the odd anomaly such as Poole and Glasgow who get decent crowds by Championship standards, but they are an exception to the rule. The majority in that league have pitiful attendance figures. Any Poole fan by the way that comes on here and try’s to convince people that the crowd levels they’re seeing in the Championship aren’t that much different to the crowds they got when they had Holder and Ward ruling the roost, or Trick and Leigh Adams before them, are lying. Simple as that. The fact of the matter is, that attendances has steadily declined in this Country over the last 10-20 years, and that has coincided with an ever dwindling number of world class riders that ride over here to the point we now have only a small handful left. There are other factors as to why attendances have dwindled of course there are, but let’s please stop pretending that having or not having, the best riders in the world riding here doesn’t make a difference! Of course it bloody well does. Rider costs have spiralled out of control for the very top riders and any increase in attendance at tracks that manage to sign them, wouldn’t in all likelihood cover the financial outlay to get them over and that is the problem. It’s a catch22 situation unfortunately but getting shot of the ones we do still have, water the product down even further, and the death of the sport in this Country will gather pace at a rate of knots. You can forget any meaningful sponsorship or TV deal! Nobody will be interested. There’s a reason nobody, even back to the Sky Sports days, were remotely interested in showing anything below the top tier. If the Colts at the NSS were the "only ticket in town" for Speedway they would get very decent attendances... When they started at the NSS they got 800 and sometimes more at a tenner a time... And that was with the Aces getting around 1700 on average.. The sport is down very much to its "die hards" who will attend "any" Speedway locally... Oxford have shown by choosing to run in the 2nd tier, rather than the first, that the cost v return of the top riders doesnt make for a great business decision... And Plymouth have shown that running on a Saturday, with all the same riders in attendance, can circa double their attendances from a Tuesday night... Workington also changed their starting times on Saturdays and saw a significant increase. Same riders, just a more convenient time for fans to attend. I notice they didn't try and run Monday or Thursday afternoons... The Peterborough team involved in any possible comeback have said crowds were similar for them whether they were in Div 1 or Div 2... The unpalatable truth for some is that paying £20k out for two heat leaders for two meetings from your home meeting, (regardless of whether sponsors pay it or not), is simply ridiculous for a sport that, even in the top tier, can often deliver crowds of less than 1000, (and that alone shows their presence isn't pulling too many in)... It also massively reduces jeopardy in the league as those "few" who can pay that kind of money will always be in the play offs... (And that level of sponsors money would be better used marketing the club, and nationally, the sport)... Poole are the perfect example of a team that simply haven't missed the "top stars" and run on the night they need to, to deliver their best crowd level.. Speedway is a tiny, tiny sport, with my lad playing amateur/semi pro football in front of bigger crowds than many Speedway teams get.. You can see by the fact no one is willing to move up that the top tier operating and business model is not fit for purpose... To keep flogging a dead horse is madness... 16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted 9 hours ago Report Share Posted 9 hours ago 8 hours ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said: I’ve often wondered how much ford, bates, Louis, Godfrey, morris and the secretary’s wages come too every year ? Got to be honest I would do it for half Hopefully the admin staff and Phil Morris are being paid properly for their time, but you'd hope the directors aren't taking a salary and there's probably no dividends to pay out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk127 Posted 9 hours ago Report Share Posted 9 hours ago Whilst many advocate keeping today’s top riders gainfully employed in the UK at a cost that no club can afford without generous sponsorship, that is a questionable position hold in the overall scheme of things. All who dismiss the lesser known riders and those coming through the ranks at NDL level as not being worthy, please explain where tomorrow’s top star riders are going to come from. Doyle, Lambert, Bewley etc. will not go on forever so where are the stars of the future coming from in the UK. The sport in this country does not have the facilities that the likes of Poland have who are able to have a conveyor belt of talent. Something has to give as the sport means diddly squat to all but a few thousand punters, it does not make good live TV and from an investment aspect you have to be a raving lunatic to put money into a business model where the terms of running are dictated by people and factors over which you as the club owner rarely have control. The sport can survive and rebuild itself but it will never attract a mass audience in the UK to warrant big pay days for the top riders in the world so it needs to cut its cloth accordingly and all the banging on about the need to keep the top tier and top riders and TV deals are just topics that can be debated to death but the reality is that outside the loyal followers no one is interested or listening and while many ideas put forward on here have some merit it is it is not going to influence the way the sport is run now or in the future. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted 9 hours ago Report Share Posted 9 hours ago (edited) 5 hours ago, Steve Irving said: Judging by the attendance when Ipswich staged the “Tiger’s academy open” meeting a few weeks ago, including the latest Great British hope Cooper Rushen, I’d say you’re wrong and spectacularly wrong. Look, people on this forum are obviously die hard fans of the sport where any level of speedway is seen as great. But they’re in a tiny tiny minority. I’ve seen someone say on here recently that we don’t need the “GP Stars” because riders of a far lesser ability can provide “just as good racing”. But that isn’t reflected in the attendance the further you go down the Speedway pyramid. The NDL is pitifully attended. You can literally stand there and count the supporters in between races. So not many actually want to see “Johnny Local” making his way to better things at all. The hugely successful Championship that has their “house in order”, is also embarrassingly attended. You’ll get the odd anomaly such as Poole and Glasgow who get decent crowds by Championship standards, but they are an exception to the rule. The majority in that league have pitiful attendance figures. Any Poole fan by the way that comes on here and try’s to convince people that the crowd levels they’re seeing in the Championship aren’t that much different to the crowds they got when they had Holder and Ward ruling the roost, or Trick and Leigh Adams before them, are lying. Simple as that. The fact of the matter is, that attendances has steadily declined in this Country over the last 10-20 years, and that has coincided with an ever dwindling number of world class riders that ride over here to the point we now have only a small handful left. There are other factors as to why attendances have dwindled of course there are, but let’s please stop pretending that having or not having, the best riders in the world riding here doesn’t make a difference! Of course it bloody well does. Rider costs have spiralled out of control for the very top riders and any increase in attendance at tracks that manage to sign them, wouldn’t in all likelihood cover the financial outlay to get them over and that is the problem. It’s a catch22 situation unfortunately but getting shot of the ones we do still have, water the product down even further, and the death of the sport in this Country will gather pace at a rate of knots. You can forget any meaningful sponsorship or TV deal! Nobody will be interested. There’s a reason nobody, even back to the Sky Sports days, were remotely interested in showing anything below the top tier. To use the Tiger's academy meeting as an example is not really fair, it was very much after the Lord Mayors show on a dark October evening asking fans to turn out to watch a bunch of riders they have zero affinity with. And I did say new Speedway fans. NDL is pitifully attended, that's because it shouldn't be being sold as a product and should be being included as part of the senior teams race night package imo. All clubs crowds are pitifully attended in the terms of other "professional" sports with maybe only County Championship cricket being the exception, but they certainly make up for that with the other formats of their sport, in fact you could possibly compare the County Championship to our NDL. @mikebv has pretty much covered the rest 👍 Edited 5 hours ago by IainB 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therefused Posted 8 hours ago Report Share Posted 8 hours ago 11 hours ago, TTT said: I'm just very Pro-PREM while other Fans are very much against it which is totally fine as they're entitled to an opinion as am I. I think thats a big assumption that everyone arguing for one league is not a fan of the prem. I am, but logic and history dictates its not working and not affordable in the current climate, if and when it gets to a point that it is then more the merrier, i would like nothing more than two full leagues of teams but it just isnt managable. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted 8 hours ago Report Share Posted 8 hours ago (edited) Be honest, if you had a couple of million to throw at sponsoring British speedway, with the current state of the sport and knowing all your doing is giving it too the bspl or speedway futures (same people) to jizz up the wall again would you ? I know I wouldn’t not in its current business model Edited 8 hours ago by THE DEAN MACHINE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phannan Posted 7 hours ago Report Share Posted 7 hours ago 9 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said: Be honest, if you had a couple of million to throw at sponsoring British speedway, with the current state of the sport and knowing all your doing is giving it too the bspl or speedway futures (same people) to jizz up the wall again would you ? I know I wouldn’t not in its current business model I wouldn’t no. Not until it had a total shake up from the bottom . None of this them and us rubbish regarding both the leagues. It’s all the same sport isn’t it . The two leagues should be intertwined. Meaning promotion and relegation. None of this I’m only racing in that league and on that night crap. I know riders race in different countries on different nights. Surely there’s a way to get around that. More complicated issues than that in life have been overcome. The current model doesn’t work, causes divisions. It’s only going one way. There has to be jeopardy to the sport to make it more attractive and entertaining. No doubt I’m living in cuckoo land wanting this though. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cheese Posted 6 hours ago Report Share Posted 6 hours ago 1 hour ago, Phannan said: I wouldn’t no. Not until it had a total shake up from the bottom . None of this them and us rubbish regarding both the leagues. It’s all the same sport isn’t it . The two leagues should be intertwined. Meaning promotion and relegation. None of this I’m only racing in that league and on that night crap. I know riders race in different countries on different nights. Surely there’s a way to get around that. More complicated issues than that in life have been overcome. The current model doesn’t work, causes divisions. It’s only going one way. There has to be jeopardy to the sport to make it more attractive and entertaining. No doubt I’m living in cuckoo land wanting this though. Exactly that. All this 'your league' stuff is the reason there will never be any progress. You can't have the two competing against each other, if they can't work together then they're all doomed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted 5 hours ago Report Share Posted 5 hours ago 3 hours ago, IainB said: Hopefully the admin staff and Phil Morris are being paid properly for their time, but you'd hope the directors aren't taking a salary and there's probably no dividends to pay out. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Phil Morris brought in as CEO of the Premiership!? With no TV deal apparantly and only 5 (possibly 4) Prem teams, isn't there a potential cost saving there for the BSPL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted 5 hours ago Report Share Posted 5 hours ago 1 minute ago, SteveLyric2 said: Please correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Phil Morris brought in as CEO of the Premiership!? With no TV deal apparantly and only 5 (possibly 4) Prem teams, isn't there a potential cost saving there for the BSPL? It would appear so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noaksey Posted 5 hours ago Report Share Posted 5 hours ago 15 hours ago, lewy said: I don't think it's a question of what team or teams will go up,more likely how many teams are going to go down to the championship! I think the 2 clubs that would consider this are pretty obvious but where would that leave the gang of 3? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted 4 hours ago Report Share Posted 4 hours ago If the bspl get there way, come march we are going to have our equivalent of the Cambridge Oxford boat race, belle vue v Ipswich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topaz325 Posted 4 hours ago Report Share Posted 4 hours ago 5 hours ago, mikebv said: If the Colts at the NSS were the "only ticket in town" for Speedway they would get very decent attendances... When they started at the NSS they got 800 and sometimes more at a tenner a time... And that was with the Aces getting around 1700 on average.. The sport is down very much to its "die hards" who will attend "any" Speedway locally... Oxford have shown by choosing to run in the 2nd tier, rather than the first, that the cost v return of the top riders doesnt make for a great business decision... And Plymouth have shown that running on a Saturday, with all the same riders in attendance, can circa double their attendances from a Tuesday night... Workington also changed their starting times on Saturdays and saw a significant increase. Same riders, just a more convenient time for fans to attend. I notice they didn't try and run Monday or Thursday afternoons... The Peterborough team involved in any possible comeback have said crowds were similar for them whether they were in Div 1 or Div 2... The unpalatable truth for some is that paying £20k out for two heat leaders for two meetings from your home meeting, (regardless of whether sponsors pay it or not), is simply ridiculous for a sport that, even in the top tier, can often deliver crowds of less than 1000, (and that alone shows their presence isn't pulling too many in)... It also massively reduces jeopardy in the league as those "few" who can pay that kind of money will always be in the play offs... (And that level of sponsors money would be better used marketing the club, and nationally, the sport)... Poole are the perfect example of a team that simply haven't missed the "top stars" and run on the night they need to, to deliver their best crowd level.. Speedway is a tiny, tiny sport, with my lad playing amateur/semi pro football in front of bigger crowds than many Speedway teams get.. You can see by the fact no one is willing to move up that the top tier operating and business model is not fit for purpose... To keep flogging a dead horse is madness... I’m not sure Workington saw a significant increase when the start time was changed May be a few more , the start time suited some people and some not . I take your point though promoters should be flexible in days and times when they run if at al possible to attract the best crowds . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phannan Posted 4 hours ago Report Share Posted 4 hours ago 1 minute ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said: If the bspl get there way, come march we are going to have our equivalent of the Cambridge Oxford boat race, belle vue v Ipswich Can the second leg be at Oxford and not foxhall or Belle Vue have no chance …. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therefused Posted 4 hours ago Report Share Posted 4 hours ago 20 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said: If the bspl get there way, come march we are going to have our equivalent of the Cambridge Oxford boat race, belle vue v Ipswich practically all of the teams in the premier have had (long) spells in the second division, i cant see why they are against it either. Maybe they are more worried about the rider shortage, or maybe championship teams dont want more teams to compete with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTT Posted 3 hours ago Report Share Posted 3 hours ago 14 hours ago, IainB said: Britain competing PL on a Mon/Thu is a relatively new thing and has just about killed off the sport, and the PL in particular, in this country. I take it you're a relative newcomer to Speedway and Ipswich? Personally I think new punters are more likely to want to come and see young Johnny Local making his way to better things in the sport rather than Johan Foreigner who flies in for his pension fund top up. Sweden (TUE), Denmark (WED) and Poland (FRI-SUN) dictates that the PREM has to run on MON & THU Nights. Not at all, I just can't see a call for Jack Smith and co, The One Big League is not even going to be anywhere near the current standard of the CHAMP unless everyone runs on a MON & THU Night. 14 hours ago, The White Knight said: As far as I am aware, the BSPL consists of a number of individual business's. If this is so, they cannot "force" Poole to abandon the Championship for a very uncertain future in the Premier League. Try to force that and I would guess that the Lawyers would be called in and Poole would take it to Court. I would if I was them, I would and I believe they would win. Oh well, that's all right then!!! You are 'all right Jack'!!! There is far too many of your Premier League people trying to close Championship Tracks for my liking. Wanting to sacrifice them on the altar of the Premier League. Not on I'm afraid. I am not being nasty, but your attitude is, prop up the Premier League at all costs and stuff the other Championship Clubs in this Country. Your League has caused all of the problems, and you expect to be bailed out as a right. That is a terrible attitude. I lost my Track fifty two years ago, so I know how it feels. I think you should wait and see what happens at the (rather late) AGM. On this particular matter you have got to me, I feel you are being very selfish and and entitled. Your position on this is dead wrong. I've done the math, One Big League is impossible to work unless everyone runs on a MON & THU Night. Not enough Heat Leaders and that's a FACT whether you run 5 Man Teams or 7, I've literally posted the CHAMP Heat Leader List on here Twice and the Numbers simply don't add up. Two Tier Structure = Slow the death process down to 1 Club per year unless Osborne picks another off. One Big League = Speed the death process up due to a Lack of Riders, The Polish 2027 Rule causing further havoc and the threat of Riders going down the Rory Schlein path of Retirment due to a job outside of the Sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted 3 hours ago Report Share Posted 3 hours ago (edited) 16 hours ago, IainB said: Britain competing PL on a Mon/Thu is a relatively new thing and has just about killed off the sport, and the PL in particular, in this country. I take it you're a relative newcomer to Speedway and Ipswich? Personally I think new punters are more likely to want to come and see young Johnny Local making his way to better things in the sport rather than Johan Foreigner who flies in for his pension fund top up. With the biggest mistake being "if we bring back the top riders the crowds will come back too"... Obviously forgetting that the crowds were dropping annually when pretty much all the top riders rode over here on Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday... With the year on year inflation busting admission increases needed to pay them certainly not helping the crowd numbers at the time... I would say crowds overall in the past decade are pretty similar, given such low numbers, and, as the sport is now pretty much bomb proof from the die hards support for it, any drop is mainly down to an ever ageing fanbase for the most part, rather than "who is riding".... With not enough "newbies" to replace that ageing fanbase... To choose vehemently to run in the entertainment business on a Monday and Thursday night only, is a strange hill to die on... Edited 2 hours ago by mikebv 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTT Posted 3 hours ago Report Share Posted 3 hours ago (edited) I apologise to anyone who finds this disrespectful. NDL attendances are abysmal and that's because the vast majority of Die Hard Fans that we've still got left couldn't care less about it. So how on earth are we suppose to get a New Generation of Fans on board when it comes to the same crop of NDL Riders that'll be propping up 1 Big League to cover mass departures of PREM Riders? Here's the math. 27 of the 49 PREM Riders who ended the 2025 Season in a declared 1-7 D/UP'd in the CHAMP = 55% of the League and those 27 Riders will no longer be shared between PREM & CHAMP Clubs. If One Big League was to happen and fixtures didn't take place on a MON & THU Night, Then we're going to need replacements for the other 22 Riders who finished the 2025 Season in a declared PREM 1-7 as none of them will be here. Add that Rider shortage up and also take into account the 2027 Polish Rule and you'll see that One Big League is a 1 Million % destined failure before it's even begun. Edited 2 hours ago by TTT 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoundTheBoards Posted 2 hours ago Report Share Posted 2 hours ago 35 minutes ago, TTT said: Here's the maths. 27 of the 49 PREM Riders who ended the 2025 Season in a declared 1-7 D/UP'd in the CHAMP = 55% of the League and those 27 Riders will no longer be shared between PREM & CHAMP Clubs. If One Big League was to happen and fixtures didn't take place on a MON & THU Night, Then we're going to need replacements for the other 22 Riders who finished the 2025 Season in a declared PREM 1-7 as none of them will be here. Add that Rider shortage up and also take into account the 2027 Polish Rule and you'll see that One Big League is a 1 Million % destined failure before it's even begun. Exactly this. It's been explained dozens of times, but still some people don't get it. There simply aren't enough riders to staff one big league, even if you draft in every NDL rider to make a big, weakened league. It's in every club's interest that the Premiership must survive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Roads Posted 2 hours ago Report Share Posted 2 hours ago 16 hours ago, 1 valve said: No they can’t see it. Because at the moment the challenge they are facing is working out how all existing clubs can operate “successfully” in 2026. if you wanted a public statement - the best they could say is “We are not yet in a position to announce our plans for 2026 and will not do so until something is in place”. One could safely presume talks are ongoing.. This situation has not happened over night though. There should be a rolling plan year on year with minor tweaks so promotors and fans then know what to expect, ok there has been a curve ball with club closures this past year but season on season its a farce. Why not state by 2027 it will be one league and plans in place now for those who wish to participate. You don't see other sports changing rules yearly. My guess will be sticky plaster plans for 2026 same old and all moaning same old issues. It needs a complete re write that will clearly upset many but it needs to happen that will either push the sport on or kill it to death. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.