bigcatdiary Posted May 24 Report Share Posted May 24 1 hour ago, racers and royals said: Really it’s not difficult to understand - there are not more points in LCQ 1 than LCQ 2. Various people have explained that finishing positions after 20 heats determine everything for LCQ 1 and 2 and final. both semi’s are in theory equal as the 8 riders appearing positions add up to 26 in each. i have said for a long time that this format does mean every race counts. both 4ths in the LCQ’s get 8 and 7 GP points. The points awarded do depend on both riders finishing the race. That was why even finishing 8th Fricke finished lower than Doyle ( 10th ) both 3rd’s get 10 and 9 - Kubera(5th) got 10 Lebedevs(9th) got 9 both 2nd’s get 12 and 11- Holder (3rd) got 12 and Woryna( 7th) got 11 Tim I seriously doubt that the vast majority (me included) haven’t got a bloody clue how it all works out and it’s just bloody ridiculous when you consider they changed it from an easy formula that everyone pretty much understood to what they currently use. 20 qualifying races, 2 semis and final was used for years and it worked okay, the scoring system, 3,2,1,0 was easy and Falls, Retirements, Tapes and Disqualifications is pretty straight forward. I am not sure who does the race card spreadsheet for the referees (like Kandysoft in the UK) but apart from them, you and the odd official I bet not many, with most relying on you and them to sort it out. I would bet Tatum and the rest of the commentators are as much in the dark as 98% of the spectators. They even now go through the rigmarole of warning riders time after time who try and guess the tapes going up, again it’s bloody nonsense just disqualify them, they would soon learn to sit still and not try to anticipate the start. OK the point about a rider winning a GP getting less points than someone else could easily be avoided by just awarding the winner 25 points, with the rest getting what they earned from the heats. Yesterday was the very first time I enjoyed a Prague Grand Prix, the second half of the meeting had some very good racing, after the usual processional start and it was refreshing to see. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodger Blue Posted May 24 Report Share Posted May 24 The thing that I find unfair is Fricke tried to overtake and falls, Doyle rides at the back but scores one more point for finishing despite scoring one less point in qualifying. That rewards effort (not) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted May 24 Report Share Posted May 24 A good meeting. So, why was Madsen put through to the final instead of Holder? As someone who has become something of a casual follower of the sport, I don't know. But how on earth can you have 2 commentators, neither of whom know the rules on qualification for the final. that is seriously shocking. They really need to be doing their homework, or get someone in who has. Too often, situations arise and they quite happily admit to having no idea what is going on. Not good enough. With Bewley out, I'm struggling to retain interest this year. I really thought he was in with a shout this year, and with Zmarzlik still not 100% I think he may have gone into the lead last night. Zmarzlik, however. What can you say? The guy is well below his best so far, yet still top of the score chart. At least Kurtz looked more on the case yesterday, so could still challenge. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted May 24 Author Report Share Posted May 24 19 minutes ago, bigcatdiary said: Tim I seriously doubt that the vast majority (me included) haven’t got a bloody clue how it all works out and it’s just bloody ridiculous when you consider they changed it from an easy formula that everyone pretty much understood to what they currently use. 20 qualifying races, 2 semis and final was used for years and it worked okay, the scoring system, 3,2,1,0 was easy and Falls, Retirements, Tapes and Disqualifications is pretty straight forward. I am not sure who does the race card spreadsheet for the referees (like Kandysoft in the UK) but apart from them, you and the odd official I bet not many, with most relying on you and them to sort it out. I would bet Tatum and the rest of the commentators are as much in the dark as 98% of the spectators. They even now go through the rigmarole of warning riders time after time who try and guess the tapes going up, again it’s bloody nonsense just disqualify them, they would soon learn to sit still and not try to anticipate the start. OK the point about a rider winning a GP getting less points than someone else could easily be avoided by just awarding the winner 25 points, with the rest getting what they earned from the heats. Yesterday was the very first time I enjoyed a Prague Grand Prix, the second half of the meeting had some very good racing, after the usual processional start and it was refreshing to see. Baansport have the contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted May 24 Report Share Posted May 24 1 hour ago, racers and royals said: Well it does help that finally the GP graphics are spot on, which if you freeze the screen after 20 heats it is so simple to note. who are the top 2 who go to the final who finishes 3rd,6th,8th and 9th for LCQ 1 who finishes 4th, 5th, 7th and 10th into LCQ 2 I put the finishing position against the riders name ( after the gate draw) so i can easily see who gets the extra point for 2nd, 3rd and 4th. After all i am a professional LOL Well then you have no business being involved in speedway 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted May 24 Report Share Posted May 24 20 minutes ago, bigcatdiary said: OK the point about a rider winning a GP getting less points than someone else could easily be avoided by just awarding the winner 25 points, with the rest getting what they earned from the heats. I actually don't have too much of a problem with the scoring as you need to look beyond Program Board nerds to attract a wider audience. If they did do that, though, I would go for 20 points for the winner, with a bonus point awarded for going the whole meeting unbeaten, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcatdiary Posted May 24 Report Share Posted May 24 15 minutes ago, Grachan said: I actually don't have too much of a problem with the scoring as you need to look beyond Program Board nerds to attract a wider audience. If they did do that, though, I would go for 20 points for the winner, with a bonus point awarded for going the whole meeting unbeaten, 5 qualifying races, 1 semi or LCQ and a final already provides the chance to get 21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted May 24 Report Share Posted May 24 8 minutes ago, bigcatdiary said: 5 qualifying races, 1 semi or LCQ and a final already provides the chance to get 21 Yeah. That was the point of saying they'd get a bonus point for winning all their races. Although, thinking about it, there are no points for the LCQs and if you scored 15 you wouldn't be in one so you'd only get 18. I think leave the points scoring as it is. It's fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambo Posted May 24 Report Share Posted May 24 Despite not being a fan of Jack Holder, I found it grossly unfair that Madsen (11 points) got seeded to the Final when Jack (11 pts) had beaten him in Heat 19. I could however, agree with heat times being the criteria if there had been 3 riders tied. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAST GATER Posted May 24 Report Share Posted May 24 1 hour ago, Grachan said: Zmarzlik, however. What can you say? The guy is well below his best so far, yet still top of the score chart. At least Kurtz looked more on the case yesterday, so could still challenge. That's my opinion as well we are just not seeing best of BZ yet wonder what's amiss but he still manages to stay on or near the top . I do think that Prague is not his best hunting ground for him a final and third place is more than an acceptable result . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PersonalResponsibility Posted May 24 Report Share Posted May 24 2 hours ago, Dodger Blue said: The thing that I find unfair is Fricke tried to overtake and falls, Doyle rides at the back but scores one more point for finishing despite scoring one less point in qualifying. That rewards effort (not) I agree, this was the most unfair part of it all. I know we've always had this rule that a crash/EF is considered worse than a straight zero, but Fricke scored more than him in the heats. It wasn't even like they were tied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PersonalResponsibility Posted May 24 Report Share Posted May 24 (edited) 2 hours ago, Dodger Blue said: The thing that I find unfair is Fricke tried to overtake and falls, Doyle rides at the back but scores one more point for finishing despite scoring one less point in qualifying. That rewards effort (not) . Edited May 24 by PersonalResponsibility Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted May 24 Report Share Posted May 24 45 minutes ago, FAST GATER said: That's my opinion as well we are just not seeing best of BZ yet wonder what's amiss but he still manages to stay on or near the top . I do think that Prague is not his best hunting ground for him a final and third place is more than an acceptable result . . He won in Prague in 2025.! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjcone44 Posted May 24 Report Share Posted May 24 i dont think zmarzlic is riding poor, he is still on top of his game , i just think some of the other riders have upped their game, but not as consistantly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted May 24 Author Report Share Posted May 24 (edited) 1 hour ago, Gambo said: Despite not being a fan of Jack Holder, I found it grossly unfair that Madsen (11 points) got seeded to the Final when Jack (11 pts) had beaten him in Heat 19. I could however, agree with heat times being the criteria if there had been 3 riders tied. Only because the FIM complete cock-up of that 4 way (?) tie at Cardiff a few years back that they stupidly changed the rules to no head to head but fastest times !! Edited May 24 by racers and royals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PersonalResponsibility Posted May 24 Report Share Posted May 24 26 minutes ago, gjcone44 said: i dont think zmarzlic is riding poor, he is still on top of his game , i just think some of the other riders have upped their game, but not as consistantly. I think he's a classic case of just doing enough. Look at last night, none of the other finalists managed double figures in Landshut, but he just keeps getting to the final. I'd love to see him be truly tested but I don't think he will be this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShanoXtra Posted May 24 Report Share Posted May 24 40 minutes ago, PersonalResponsibility said: I think he's a classic case of just doing enough. Look at last night, none of the other finalists managed double figures in Landshut, but he just keeps getting to the final. I'd love to see him be truly tested but I don't think he will be this season. The problem is and always will be the consistency and that is why Zmarzlik is the best. Even when he doesn’t win he gets damage limitation. You have Dudek and Lambert performing for Torun but didn’t show up yesterday. And same for a lot of the others, even bewley who I like can disappear of any meeting. Zmarzlik is always there or there about. Last night showed me that Kurtz is really ready to bring this battle. He started OK but then had a mechanical issue but still when required in the last two races (one to get into the LCQ and the other to win it) he found what he needed and made it happen. So he is showing to me he can still make a poor start to a meeting turn around into damage limitation just like Zmarzlik. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted May 24 Report Share Posted May 24 I’m interested to know if these engine failures we are seeing are these ignition boxes, 2 weeks back zmarzlik had a bike failure on the start line in Rzeszow (hell hadn't froze over)and last night Kurtz had one, he came out on same bike in next ride so wasn’t an engine blow up, it’s happened to some others too, although any bike can fail I thought the days of top riders having bike Breakdowns were well and truly behind us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted May 24 Report Share Posted May 24 1 hour ago, PersonalResponsibility said: I think he's a classic case of just doing enough. Look at last night, none of the other finalists managed double figures in Landshut, but he just keeps getting to the final. I'd love to see him be truly tested but I don't think he will be this season. The points scoring system helps others more than Bartosz IMO .Keeping the Top men close.Even Bartosz has that sussed though.The one will say though is ,he is not gating as consistent as he used too over the last couple of seasons whether that is bike up or not.Kurtz seems to be his main challenger for consistency.Shame for Bewley getting injured he certainly looked in great form.Woryna and MJJ have added something to this Seasons GPs . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted May 24 Report Share Posted May 24 46 minutes ago, ShanoXtra said: The problem is and always will be the consistency and that is why Zmarzlik is the best. Even when he doesn’t win he gets damage limitation. You have Dudek and Lambert performing for Torun but didn’t show up yesterday. And same for a lot of the others, even bewley who I like can disappear of any meeting. Zmarzlik is always there or there about. Last night showed me that Kurtz is really ready to bring this battle. He started OK but then had a mechanical issue but still when required in the last two races (one to get into the LCQ and the other to win it) he found what he needed and made it happen. So he is showing to me he can still make a poor start to a meeting turn around into damage limitation just like Zmarzlik. 10 years in the GPs and he never finished lower than 5th that is ridiculous consistency and astonishingly he is only 31 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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