YeOldPitGate Posted July 23 Report Share Posted July 23 18 hours ago, LagutaRacingFan said: I've been a speedway fan for over 20 years and this is the first season that I haven't followed. I miss the days of the "Elite League" with Leigh Adams at Swindon, Jason Crump at Belle Vue, Nicki Pedersen at Eastbourne, Lee Richardson at Lakeside and Hans Andersen at Peterborough. Sky Sports with Nigel and Kelvin was the pinnacle for British Speedway. It all went downhill when Sky left the sport. Even when I started going in the mid 80's every winter 2-3 clubs would be on life support but some semi rich fan would step up and keep the club going for 2-3 years before rinse and repeat. I had stopped going by the time Sky stepped in and as many have said it was a huge opportunity missed for a reset but the promoters let the number one's hoover up all the golden eggs. From my time following the sport 84-93 in truth I'm amazed it has still survived to present day , I think as others have said probably the only chance of survival moving forward is to become a feeder ground for Poland. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeOldPitGate Posted July 23 Report Share Posted July 23 2 hours ago, Daniel Smith said: Hence why I said "many fans" as it's not directed solely at you. We want and need change to move this sport on and genuine ideas CAN help. As much as they deny it, promoters, managers and riders do read this forum. Ideally, we should be paying £15 admission. Ideally we should have Zmarzlik, Laguta and especially Lambert over here full time. Ideally we should be have major brands as sponsors. We are where we are because British Speedway has been stuck in this mentality that the fans don't matter. A constant dumbing down but increasing prices on us. Because of such measures, even the hardest of hardcore fans have been picking and choosing meetings. Many have given up all together. At fault for all that has been and always will be the clubs owners/promoters. It's never ever the fans fault if a club fails. Seeing Coleman's message, so sadly, makes me laugh. Why, you say?? If this guy keeps "running his mouth" to improve the sport, the other promoters will run him out of town within 4 years. Shamefully, Sandhu, Frost, J.Chapman and to a point M.Ford all ran out of the sport for trying to be 'progressive', many before them and since have also come and gone. Very loudly, it needs to be said to a number of this current promotions:- "You're fukkin s#!t at your job." Spot on its telling that most on here desperately want the support to succeed but I would guess 90% of us no longer attend and I must admit even if I had a track close to me it would take a lot to tempt me back even though I still love the game. The last four races from the world team cup where Poland pipped us in the last race were everything the sport can be brilliant racing, all four nations still in with a shout going into the last four races and the place going mental in the final heat brilliant stuff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeOldPitGate Posted July 23 Report Share Posted July 23 Here you go sublime stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TB1 Posted July 23 Report Share Posted July 23 1 hour ago, YeOldPitGate said: Even when I started going in the mid 80's every winter 2-3 clubs would be on life support but some semi rich fan would step up and keep the club going for 2-3 years before rinse and repeat. I had stopped going by the time Sky stepped in and as many have said it was a huge opportunity missed for a reset but the promoters let the number one's hoover up all the golden eggs. From my time following the sport 84-93 in truth I'm amazed it has still survived to present day , I think as others have said probably the only chance of survival moving forward is to become a feeder ground for Poland. Surely though we must be getting to the point where the straw breaks the camels back. Sheffield (publicly know of course) have lost heavily on the last couple of meetings and we know crowd figures have not been healthy at other tracks. But with that potential scenario in mind what possibly can Poland feed off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TB1 Posted July 23 Report Share Posted July 23 On 7/22/2026 at 1:25 PM, TheSmiler said: Let’s be honest… nothing will change. This conversation happens every season and still the BSPA serve up this tiny little “Premiership” league. The fact they were originally willing to run this season with a five-team league should tell you all you need to know. Whether Sheffield run or not, the powers that be will continue to bury their heads in the sand until the inevitable “we can no longer financially run a league structure in the UK”. It’s very bleak. That could be next year at this rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeOldPitGate Posted July 23 Report Share Posted July 23 1 hour ago, TB1 said: Surely though we must be getting to the point where the straw breaks the camels back. Sheffield (publicly know of course) have lost heavily on the last couple of meetings and we know crowd figures have not been healthy at other tracks. But with that potential scenario in mind what possibly can Poland feed off? Don't disagree with any of that if the Bates chuck the towel in who knows if someone new will step in. I've just been watching my son learn to snowboard and was passing the time reading an article on music festivals and you could read across to speedway , a few years ago there were over a 1,000 a year now roughly 500 and falling, the article quoted almost same problems as speedway repetition of acts, to high ticket prices, cost of running the whole set up gone through the roof since covid, people prefer watching big acts in footy stadiums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajr Posted July 24 Report Share Posted July 24 For me the play off system stopped me attending , what's the point of going to a meeting knowing the result is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. You could support your team home and away all season winning every meeting, tream suffers injuries and subsequently loses the tittle 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cheese Posted July 24 Report Share Posted July 24 With a seemingly ever-increasing lack of riders I would suggest removing averages. Probably something that would actually assist the Championship more but if there's even one rider losing out because of it then that is one too many. I presume the reason Alfie Bowtell for example is missing this year is because his home form for Plymouth gave him a false average, similarly for Kyle Newman last season. Go back a few years and Matthew Wethers suffered the same fate when Newcastle closed and there went a solid Championship rider never to be seen again. Eddie Kennett has done okay since his comeback, there's no reason why he couldn't have done that sooner if he hadn't been stuck with his old average until now. And those unattached riders should be also be allowed and even encouraged to take guest bookings. They get the opportunity to put themselves in the shop window and it obviously doesn't look as bad as a rider helping a rival team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gasser90 Posted July 24 Report Share Posted July 24 On 7/23/2026 at 8:21 AM, PhilTheAce said: hes not a lone voice, But the main voice needs to be removed from his post As much as Coleman speaks common sense I’m pretty sure any new promotors can’t say or do or vote on anything for at least 2 years ! Such has the man at the top got a hold over everybody and because they can’t vote that means they can’t vote to get him out either, even with Coleman’s SGP power, when it come to British speedway. He can’t really do anything until Godfrey says he can after the 2027 season is finished Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur73 Posted July 25 Report Share Posted July 25 At this stage why don't we just allow the premiership to race over the weekend? Yes we will loose some top riders but this is a price we might have to pay. The general public don't know who Dan Bewley and Jack Holder are, they just want an enjoyable night out at a reasonable price. If clubs don't have to pay for the top riders then the meeting might be more affordable. Also, the racing is likely to be closer as more clubs can compete at a similar level. We always compare ourselves to ice hockey but they don't spend all their money trying to get players from the NHL over so why should we? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted July 25 Report Share Posted July 25 42 minutes ago, Arthur73 said: At this stage why don't we just allow the premiership to race over the weekend? Yes we will loose some top riders but this is a price we might have to pay. The general public don't know who Dan Bewley and Jack Holder are, they just want an enjoyable night out at a reasonable price. If clubs don't have to pay for the top riders then the meeting might be more affordable. Also, the racing is likely to be closer as more clubs can compete at a similar level. We always compare ourselves to ice hockey but they don't spend all their money trying to get players from the NHL over so why should we? Belle Vue tried that last weekend. Sunday afternoon, lovely weather, £15 for over 30 races and any number of kids free. The riders were all a similar standard with no top stars as like you say people don’t know their Bewleys from their Shimelt’s. Less than 200 people were there when I looked around. On the last point we didn’t get top players over at great initial expense but rather signed the likes of Fricke, Brennan, Kurtz, Lidsey, Bewley, Blodorn & Cairns and watched them become the lads they are today. In Britain we don’t need to spend but we do need to foster development for those within our commonwealth. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 25 Report Share Posted July 25 Just now, ouch said: Belle Vue tried that last weekend. Sunday afternoon, lovely weather, £15 for over 30 races and any number of kids free. The riders were all a similar standard with no top stars as like you say people don’t know their Bewleys from their Shimelt’s. Less than 200 people were there when I looked around. On the last point we didn’t get top players over at great initial expense but rather signed the likes of Fricke, Brennan, Kurtz, Lidsey, Bewley, Blodorn & Cairns and watched them become the lads they are today. In Britain we don’t need to spend but we do need to foster development for those within our commonwealth. When my lad played for a League Two U21 Academy the first team had 4,000 there each week... Laying out £22 to get in... About 100 came to watch his U21 team play.. And it was free to get in... Watching Youth Racing and Senior racing is like comparing Apples to Oranges .. And, if that Youth Racing had took place on a Monday night, the crowd, (and participant) numbers would have been even less... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur73 Posted July 25 Report Share Posted July 25 57 minutes ago, ouch said: Belle Vue tried that last weekend. Sunday afternoon, lovely weather, £15 for over 30 races and any number of kids free. The riders were all a similar standard with no top stars as like you say people don’t know their Bewleys from their Shimelt’s. Less than 200 people were there when I looked around. On the last point we didn’t get top players over at great initial expense but rather signed the likes of Fricke, Brennan, Kurtz, Lidsey, Bewley, Blodorn & Cairns and watched them become the lads they are today. In Britain we don’t need to spend but we do need to foster development for those within our commonwealth. I think your first point of comparing youth and senior racing has already been covered. I actually agree with you on the 2nd point we actually have a good talent pool and we will lose some of them initially. In the long term though young riders will only go to Poland when they are confident they will start. This might not happen until they're 25 as Poland's U21 system (rising star) is ruthless riders are pulled from the team meeting to meeting. The transfer from U21 to senior is also really hard in Poland, only the top riders can do it and they often struggle for multiple seasons (miskowiak). Britain is a much better place to develop from 18-25 than Poland. Therefore Britain can instead build up its own talent pool with only the top few going to Poland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveWayne Posted July 25 Report Share Posted July 25 59 minutes ago, ouch said: Belle Vue tried that last weekend. Sunday afternoon, lovely weather, £15 for over 30 races and any number of kids free. The riders were all a similar standard with no top stars as like you say people don’t know their Bewleys from their Shimelt’s. Less than 200 people were there when I looked around. On the last point we didn’t get top players over at great initial expense but rather signed the likes of Fricke, Brennan, Kurtz, Lidsey, Bewley, Blodorn & Cairns and watched them become the lads they are today. In Britain we don’t need to spend but we do need to foster development for those within our commonwealth. I'm not sure you can claim Kurtz as 'one of your own'. He had already been riding in the UK for 6 years, with 4 years in the top flight at Poole, topping their GSAs in his final year with them. Yes he has improved while he has been with Belle Vue but that would have happened with age and experience wherever he was riding. His improvement is not much different to Jack Holder who left Poole at the same to join Sheffield. Both have been loyal servants since then, but neither club can claim to have nurtured them to the extent that you may have done with some of the others. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted July 25 Report Share Posted July 25 2 hours ago, mikebv said: When my lad played for a League Two U21 Academy the first team had 4,000 there each week... Laying out £22 to get in... About 100 came to watch his U21 team play.. And it was free to get in... Watching Youth Racing and Senior racing is like comparing Apples to Oranges .. And, if that Youth Racing had took place on a Monday night, the crowd, (and participant) numbers would have been even less... I was comparing Bewley & Shimelt as I continually get told that we don’t need names as nobody knows any different. Is this the case or not? People who don’t know the difference also wouldn’t feel the difference in speed , which is less than a second a lap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted July 25 Report Share Posted July 25 1 hour ago, DaveWayne said: I'm not sure you can claim Kurtz as 'one of your own'. He had already been riding in the UK for 6 years, with 4 years in the top flight at Poole, topping their GSAs in his final year with them. Yes he has improved while he has been with Belle Vue but that would have happened with age and experience wherever he was riding. His improvement is not much different to Jack Holder who left Poole at the same to join Sheffield. Both have been loyal servants since then, but neither club can claim to have nurtured them to the extent that you may have done with some of the others. I’d never claim Brady to be one of our own in the same way as Dan but we should be looking for more riders to move from 7.50 to 9.50 and become GP challengers as despite popular opinion on here, they put bums on seats. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur73 Posted July 25 Report Share Posted July 25 54 minutes ago, ouch said: I was comparing Bewley & Shimelt as I continually get told that we don’t need names as nobody knows any different. Is this the case or not? People who don’t know the difference also wouldn’t feel the difference in speed , which is less than a second a lap. The reason fewer people came is because the event was advertised as a youth/academy event. In all sports fewer people will go to youth events with football being the major example! World Cup final tickets were £10,000+ but the U20 World Cup 2025 final tickets were £3. Anyway, my best example is I have brought a number of my friends from Uni to Poole Pirates on a few occasions. For all of them they had never heard of speedway before they met me. The favourite riders were Cooper Rushen because of his tassles and Tobias Thomsen because of his celebrations. The meetings most people have enjoyed have been those which are close and competitive in terms of points. It's just anecdotal but I think the general public don't know who Dan Bewley is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 25 Report Share Posted July 25 1 hour ago, ouch said: I’d never claim Brady to be one of our own in the same way as Dan but we should be looking for more riders to move from 7.50 to 9.50 and become GP challengers as despite popular opinion on here, they put bums on seats. Of course they put bums on seats in comparison to non World Class riders... The more salient question is though... Do they put enough bums on seats to justify the outlay for them?... It has been mentioned on here, by some who appear "in the know" at their local tracks, that between 3500 and 5000 quid is the going rate for a World Class rider... Therefore, taking the lower number, that is 14,000 quid laid our for two World Class level riders, from your home meeting income, for the home and away meetings.. Now, I know sponsorship will cover a fair amount, however, I would suggest laying out around 8,000 quid for those two meetings for "decent" riders, and using 6,000 quid to actually promote the meeting, on a night that is maybe better to attract a crowd, would be the more sensible business plan to follow.. Ipswich fans have suggested that crowds have, in the main, held up this season without last years "Superstars".. Which, even if there was a drop off of a couple of hundred, must mean a fair net saving on outlay this season, given their current One and Five won't be in the same pay bracket .. Utopia is every team to have two World Class riders, reality though means they wouldn't cover their income by increasing gates enough to pay their salaries... My old company has made many managers redundant/retired over the past decade, with, on many occasions, those highest earners the ones who have taken the attractive redundancy/retirement terms on offer.. Are their replacements as good? Nowhere near, given the disparate level of experience and capability, however they are 30-40% cheaper and will gain experience and capability as they develop.. The bottom line though is you could have King Charles himself at No1 for any team, but if hardly anyone outside a select few know the sport itself, never mind the team, exists, then you won't be needing the " House Full" signs outside... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries Posted July 25 Report Share Posted July 25 (edited) 2 hours ago, mikebv said: Of course they put bums on seats in comparison to non World Class riders... The more salient question is though... Do they put enough bums on seats to justify the outlay for them?... It has been mentioned on here, by some who appear "in the know" at their local tracks, that between 3500 and 5000 quid is the going rate for a World Class rider... Therefore, taking the lower number, that is 14,000 quid laid our for two World Class level riders, from your home meeting income, for the home and away meetings.. Now, I know sponsorship will cover a fair amount, however, I would suggest laying out around 8,000 quid for those two meetings for "decent" riders, and using 6,000 quid to actually promote the meeting, on a night that is maybe better to attract a crowd, would be the more sensible business plan to follow.. Ipswich fans have suggested that crowds have, in the main, held up this season without last years "Superstars".. Which, even if there was a drop off of a couple of hundred, must mean a fair net saving on outlay this season, given their current One and Five won't be in the same pay bracket .. Utopia is every team to have two World Class riders, reality though means they wouldn't cover their income by increasing gates enough to pay their salaries... My old company has made many managers redundant/retired over the past decade, with, on many occasions, those highest earners the ones who have taken the attractive redundancy/retirement terms on offer.. Are their replacements as good? Nowhere near, given the disparate level of experience and capability, however they are 30-40% cheaper and will gain experience and capability as they develop.. The bottom line though is you could have King Charles himself at No1 for any team, but if hardly anyone outside a select few know the sport itself, never mind the team, exists, then you won't be needing the " House Full" signs outside... Well I haven’t been one of those. I use my own eyes and I’ve maintained more than once on here, that the crowd levels have taken a fair old hit. I know one or two have said there hasn’t been much difference, but I’m honestly not sure what they’re seeing. My opinion is vastly different. The Belle Vue meeting a few weeks ago was woeful compared to Belle Vue’s visits in previous seasons. No Bewley but Kurtz was there, Belle Vue meetings usually bring out the bigger crowds at Foxhall generally, and it was a glorious summer evening. I was pretty shocked at the turn out to be frank. It can’t all be blamed on the loss of Doyle and Emil because there are a couple of other factors including the new TV stream for a tenna less, but I’ve absolutely no doubt the loss of BOTH heatleaders has been the biggest factor. Talk to literally anyone at the track on meeting day, and they’ll all tell you the same thing, it just hasn’t been close to the same without them. Go in to next season without both of Bewley or Kurtz, promote Zach Cook to number 1 and see how you get on. Do you think it wouldn’t have THAT much affect on your attendances? I bet it would!! Take your point about whether the drop off would hurt the finances due to the savings made on not paying the top stars, but that we’ll never know really. None of us want to be watching speedway in ever decreasing crowd numbers though and that’s what’s happened at Ipswich this year, and would happen at the NSS too if you lost your heatleaders. Sheffield fans have also commented on the lower crowd levels since Holder got injured. Ask Orion and any other Swindon fan who still browses on here, what happened to their crowd levels when Leigh Adams retired. Edited July 25 by Aries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Irving Posted July 25 Report Share Posted July 25 Richard Coleman ”The sport can’t continue to do the same thing with a little bit less money each year and expect a different result” In a nutshell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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