CHAMPIONSHIP PLAY OFF FINAL - SCUNTHORPE v POOLE v SCUNTHORPE (2 & 7 October)

[SUPERACE]

I didnt watch it live, but i haven't seen a single picture yet that shows the wheel was over the line.  It was obviously very tight, but not enough for an exclusion.

[foreverblue]

2 minutes ago, SUPERACE said:

I didnt watch it live, but i haven't seen a single picture yet that shows the wheel was over the line.  It was obviously very tight, but not enough for an exclusion.

So you think it could be bias against Poole, who would have thought that and David Howe's unbiased assessment was that he saw the wheel was over the line during the race.

[beardybum]

To be honest as a Glasgow fan I don't have a dog in the race. Yes  maybe he was over the line but from every replay the ref saw last night there is no way he could say 100 percent.......so he can't exclude him.

Edited 17 hours ago by beardybum

[False dawn]

From the Edinburgh website:

"Yet another change has been forced upon the Monarchs for our final Scottish Cup meeting on Friday as Michael Palm Toft, after riding well in Scunthorpe's brave Playoff Final performance, suffered an injury following the Superheat"

Elsewhere on the same website:
"....replacing the previously announced Michael Palm Toft, who was involved in a post-race incident after Scunthorpe's contentious Super Heat loss in the Championship play-off final at Poole last night"

Anyone know what happened to MPT?

[Grachan]

Just reading about this "controversy", so I had a look at the Scunthorpe website.

This is the picture on there:

 

Being the Scunthorpe website - and along with a claim in the match report that the wheel was over the line - this would, presumably, be the most "over the line" point in the race. And the whole wheel is quite obviously not entirely over the line. So where is the controversy?

[Fromafar]

30 minutes ago, Grachan said:

Just reading about this "controversy", so I had a look at the Scunthorpe website.

This is the picture on there:

 

Being the Scunthorpe website - and along with a claim in the match report that the wheel was over the line - this would, presumably, be the most "over the line" point in the race. And the whole wheel is quite obviously not entirely over the line. So where is the controversy?

To me it’s inconclusive and if it was over line it was a millisecond and at the angle he was travelling it was a difficult decision for the Ref.Think got it right not to exclude though.

 

[Fromafar]

11 hours ago, False dawn said:

From the Edinburgh website:

"Yet another change has been forced upon the Monarchs for our final Scottish Cup meeting on Friday as Michael Palm Toft, after riding well in Scunthorpe's brave Playoff Final performance, suffered an injury following the Superheat"

Elsewhere on the same website:
"....replacing the previously announced Michael Palm Toft, who was involved in a post-race incident after Scunthorpe's contentious Super Heat loss in the Championship play-off final at Poole last night"

Anyone know what happened to MPT?

Loading bike into Van sounds a good excuse🤔😂😂

[SteveLyric2]

12 hours ago, False dawn said:

From the Edinburgh website:

"Yet another change has been forced upon the Monarchs for our final Scottish Cup meeting on Friday as Michael Palm Toft, after riding well in Scunthorpe's brave Playoff Final performance, suffered an injury following the Superheat"

Elsewhere on the same website:
"....replacing the previously announced Michael Palm Toft, who was involved in a post-race incident after Scunthorpe's contentious Super Heat loss in the Championship play-off final at Poole last night"

Anyone know what happened to MPT?

Possibly choked on his dummy!!

[Trackrat]

16 hours ago, SteveLyric2 said:

I thought he already was!!

What a boring silly old man💦💦

[Arthur54]

56 minutes ago, Trackrat said:

What a boring silly old man💦💦

How's the grapes 🍇 glug glug glug 

[lucifer sam]

2 hours ago, Grachan said:

Just reading about this "controversy", so I had a look at the Scunthorpe website.

This is the picture on there:

 

Being the Scunthorpe website - and along with a claim in the match report that the wheel was over the line - this would, presumably, be the most "over the line" point in the race. And the whole wheel is quite obviously not entirely over the line. So where is the controversy?

The actual rule is:

012.1.11 Leaving the Track A rider whose machine crosses the inner edge of the track with 2 wheels must be disqualified unless, in the opinion of the Referee, the action was taken in the interests of safety for other riders or the rider involved was forced off course by another rider.

 

I would say the wheel does go entirely over the line (remember speedway tyres are not exactly wide), but it didn't need to, in any case.

It's just whether both wheels had crossed the inner edge (in other words, both wheels are entirely or partially on the centre green).  Both wheels quite clearly do. Note the word "must" unless taken in the interests of safety. I don't think passing another rider counts as the interests of safety. It's an automatic exclusion - both wheels were on the centre green. 

[Catalan]

33 minutes ago, lucifer sam said:

The actual rule is:

012.1.11 Leaving the Track A rider whose machine crosses the inner edge of the track with 2 wheels must be disqualified unless, in the opinion of the Referee, the action was taken in the interests of safety for other riders or the rider involved was forced off course by another rider.

 

I would say the wheel does go entirely over the line (remember speedway tyres are not exactly wide), but it didn't need to, in any case.

It's just whether both wheels had crossed the inner edge (in other words, both wheels are entirely or partially on the centre green).  Both wheels quite clearly do. Note the word "must" unless taken in the interests of safety. I don't think passing another rider counts as the interests of safety. It's an automatic exclusion - both wheels were on the centre green. 

Speak to any SCB official and they will tell you both wheels must have crossed the inner white line.

Another rule that will be re written I bet

[therefused]

54 minutes ago, Catalan said:

Speak to any SCB official and they will tell you both wheels must have crossed the inner white line.

Another rule that will be re written I bet

to be honest its totally irrelvant what an SCB offical says when its written down in black and white in the rulebook. 

maybe it will be rewritten which is fine, but its not been rewritten yet and the current rulebook should be adhered too

[lucifer sam]

1 hour ago, Catalan said:

Speak to any SCB official and they will tell you both wheels must have crossed the inner white line.

Another rule that will be re written I bet

Both wheels did cross over the white line. But it's whether they have to cross over 100%. I think they did on Wednesday in any case, but the rule doesn't even stipulate that they have to.

Both wheels were over the line for probably up to 1 second. Both wheels were 100% over the line for probably only 0.1% of a second (when all the soft soil on the inside of the line was kicked up, with the other evidence being the rear tyre track that Ryan Ingram took photos of).

Edited 2 hours ago by lucifer sam

[lucifer sam]

11 minutes ago, therefused said:

to be honest its totally irrelvant what an SCB offical says when its written down in black and white in the rulebook. 

maybe it will be rewritten which is fine, but its not been rewritten yet and the current rulebook should be adhered too

Exactly. Any future rule didn't count on Wednesday. Just the current one.

[foreverblue]

Does not matter now, meeting over decision made. Poole are champions.

[AFCB Wildcat]

1 hour ago, lucifer sam said:

but it didn't need to, in any case.

It's just whether both wheels had crossed the inner edge (in other words, both wheels are entirely or partially on the centre green).  

That's your interpretation, but that's not what the rule says. If that was the intent, then the rule must say "partially on the centre geen" or " if any part of the wheel is over the line"

As it is, you can't have crossed anything if you are still partially on it.

The rule is hard  enough to police as it is. How could referees possibly judge if a part of a tyre is over the edge of a line in real time.

I'm not saying that he definitely didn't cross the line, I'm saying that there is no conclusive evidence either way, so the referee couldn't exclude him. You would need a shot that showed a clear gap between the white line and the edge of the wheel to be sure and I've yet to see one a genuine one.

I don't  accept any of the AI enhanced photos that have appeared on here that seek to prove it either way.

 

 

[lucifer sam]

2 minutes ago, AFCB Wildcat said:

That's your interpretation, but that's not what the rule says. If that was the intent, then the rule must say "partially on the centre geen" or " if any part of the wheel is over the line"

As it is, you can't have crossed anything if you are still partially on it.

The rule is hard  enough to police as it is. How could referees possibly judge if a part of a tyre is over the edge of a line in real time.

I'm not saying that he definitely didn't cross the line, I'm saying that there is no conclusive evidence either way, so the referee couldn't exclude him. You would need a shot that showed a clear gap between the white line and the edge of the wheel to be sure and I've yet to see one a genuine one.

I don't  accept any of the AI enhanced photos that have appeared on here that seek to prove it either way.

It's not my interpretation at all - THIS is the rule (which was clearly broken):

012.1.11 Leaving the Track A rider whose machine crosses the inner edge of the track with 2 wheels must be disqualified unless, in the opinion of the Referee, the action was taken in the interests of safety for other riders or the rider involved was forced off course by another rider.

[Catalan]

3 minutes ago, lucifer sam said:

It's not my interpretation at all - THIS is the rule (which was clearly broken):

012.1.11 Leaving the Track A rider whose machine crosses the inner edge of the track with 2 wheels must be disqualified unless, in the opinion of the Referee, the action was taken in the interests of safety for other riders or the rider involved was forced off course by another rider.

looks like you will have agree to disagree.

An SCB official deemed that both wheels never crossed the inner edge

[therefused]

33 minutes ago, foreverblue said:

Does not matter now, meeting over decision made. Poole are champions.

Of course it matters, refereeing has been shocking in this country for years now and it’s getting worse, an investigation needs to happen into the standard of refereeing. This is just the tip of the iceberg and has robbed the rightful winners of a league title