2027 - 8 Team Premiership

[TTT]

21 minutes ago, Witches1998 said:

Cairns will be #6 for someone based on the article from Phil Morris saying he is getting 25% reduction and graduating the scheme 

I know, But he's far more reliable than a flaky foreign rider who's never ridden a British track as well as a CHAMP Rider on a CHAMP GSA around the 3.5 mark.

We got burnt this year with Hellstrom-Bangs and Juhl Pedersen.

With this ruling imo it makes Cairns just as important as Heat Leaders.

[Arthur73]

26 minutes ago, TigerIain said:

It looks to me like the u21 riders (essentially your reserves) are now far more valuable than anyone else in the team. Cue u21s wanting number 1 money.

Its all well and good in Poland where there are lots of talented u21 riders, but there are much fewer in Britain and riders tend to develop later. You don't have to dig too far before you are looking at having 2026 NDL riders being asked to jump into the Premiership just to fill a quota

The problem is this scheme is even narrower than the Polish example. U21 riders in Poland can have as high an average as they want but will always graduate at 21. Here they graduate when they get to 3.50 or 4.00 instead.

I think having U21 reserves (who can have any average) like Poland works. Currently Cairns, Harrison, Scott, Rushen, Pijper, Loftus is not too bad a line up. 3 of those riders are 17 so still have a number of years ahead of them at that spot to improve. It also encourages premiership teams to have junior teams so they can find talent to bring into their team. 

I think graduating Cairns and Rushen already means they will be in Poland even more quickly!

[therefused]

The fact that it isnt in the championship is mind boggling, this scheme is perfect there. It should be two in the championship and one in the premiership ideally. 

[ouch]

1 hour ago, Arthur73 said:

The problem is this scheme is even narrower than the Polish example. U21 riders in Poland can have as high an average as they want but will always graduate at 21. Here they graduate when they get to 3.50 or 4.00 instead.

I think having U21 reserves (who can have any average) like Poland works. Currently Cairns, Harrison, Scott, Rushen, Pijper, Loftus is not too bad a line up. 3 of those riders are 17 so still have a number of years ahead of them at that spot to improve. It also encourages premiership teams to have junior teams so they can find talent to bring into their team. 

I think graduating Cairns and Rushen already means they will be in Poland even more quickly!

I don’t think that’s true when other clubs can use the money they have saved over the years by not running a junior development side on coaxing a young lad over on inflated terms. Madness. 

[gjcone44]

heres a competition, i would be willing to go and watch, a best pairs comp at each prem track just involving the reserves pairing, from each club, one meeting at each track, not interested in watching same away team twice in the season.

[PersonalResponsibility]

2 hours ago, Arthur73 said:

The problem is this scheme is even narrower than the Polish example. U21 riders in Poland can have as high an average as they want but will always graduate at 21. Here they graduate when they get to 3.50 or 4.00 instead.

I think having U21 reserves (who can have any average) like Poland works. Currently Cairns, Harrison, Scott, Rushen, Pijper, Loftus is not too bad a line up. 3 of those riders are 17 so still have a number of years ahead of them at that spot to improve. It also encourages premiership teams to have junior teams so they can find talent to bring into their team. 

I think graduating Cairns and Rushen already means they will be in Poland even more quickly!

They had something similar in the PL in 2006. Eligible riders were given a grade of A, B or C, and teams could have A/C or B/B, no averages were involved. I think it lasted until July when Jon Armstrong and Steve Boxall were averaging about 6.5 and they scrapped it. 

Similar to 2013 when they announced a scheme for all 10(!) EL clubs to have 2x NL riders at reserve. Then we had the fast-track scheme, and the rising stars after that.

I suppose the takeaway is that it's no good getting worked up about any system, because it'll probably be consigned to history within 2 seasons max.

[Arthur73]

1 hour ago, ouch said:

I don’t think that’s true when other clubs can use the money they have saved over the years by not running a junior development side on coaxing a young lad over on inflated terms. Madness. 

Will Cairns came through the Colts and ended up at the Aces

Rushen is still at King's Lynn after coming through the young stars despite Ipswich having much more money just down the road.

The Thompson twins are both still at Leicester after coming through the cubs.

There will be some cases of bigger teams showing the money to young riders but not all will follow. If they have ridden at King's Lynn for example since they were very young and feel very comfortable at the track and with the team why move?

Especially if they put in a great season they know Poland might come calling, where the real money is. If they'd moved to an unknown track for slightly more money and had a poorer season they might have missed the Polish boat.

[therefused]

1 hour ago, ouch said:

I don’t think that’s true when other clubs can use the money they have saved over the years by not running a junior development side on coaxing a young lad over on inflated terms. Madness. 

good idea, for 2027 teams that ran a national league team this year should get first dibs 👍

[Arthur73]

52 minutes ago, PersonalResponsibility said:

They had something similar in the PL in 2006. Eligible riders were given a grade of A, B or C, and teams could have A/C or B/B, no averages were involved. I think it lasted until July when Jon Armstrong and Steve Boxall were averaging about 6.5 and they scrapped it. 

Similar to 2013 when they announced a scheme for all 10(!) EL clubs to have 2x NL riders at reserve. Then we had the fast-track scheme, and the rising stars after that.

I suppose the takeaway is that it's no good getting worked up about any system, because it'll probably be consigned to history within 2 seasons max.

Very fair. I just want at least one system to work! Maybe I'm too optimistic! 

[mikebv]

Are the team averages actually set yet?..

Or is the AGM delay down to possibly a seventh team coming into tier one, which will mean an average change to accommodate them?...

And, I presume the overseas U21 riders have an assessed average?

If so, is it based on the usual Polish League riders assessed rules?...

And if so, if they don't ride in Poland eg Sweden, Denmark etc, what will their assessed average be?..

Lower than Poland? Or the same???

[mikebv]

10 minutes ago, Arthur73 said:

Will Cairns came through the Colts and ended up at the Aces

Rushen is still at King's Lynn after coming through the young stars despite Ipswich having much more money just down the road.

The Thompson twins are both still at Leicester after coming through the cubs.

There will be some cases of bigger teams showing the money to young riders but not all will follow. If they have ridden at King's Lynn for example since they were very young and feel very comfortable at the track and with the team why move?

Especially if they put in a great season they know Poland might come calling, where the real money is. If they'd moved to an unknown track for slightly more money and had a poorer season they might have missed the Polish boat.

Spot on...

All the tracks are really doing is providing track time for these young lads given they are never going to be assets...

And they can ride in both leagues over here, and, at least, two overseas, and more if they don't do Poland..

Therefore to say one club "nurtures" them, and has some loyalty call on their services, is stretching things to a fair old distance...

Getting a contract in Poland is the absolute aim for so many, and the UK provides a stepping stone, as do other leagues around Europe..

The aim for the sport over here, and in other non Polish leagues, is to have a conveyor belt of riders coming through to replace those for whom Poland becomes their "main home"...

[Neila]

Regarding averages if a team building average is 38/40/42 but to get a  result in a meeting you need to score 45 points, so the team building average goes up and riders then have a higher often false average, so every year riders have a higher average than their worth. Don't know how to fix this but it just seems to weaken the product every time 

[Fortythirtyeight]

On 10/20/2026 at 2:09 PM, 1 valve said:

As CEO its good that P Morris is independent and for now that's about as much as we can hope for. In the current climate its no use a sport relying on the board to run matters solely by themselves. Sub divisions of proactive promoters looking into wider matters is required and they should report to specific members. Of course as CEO PM should be leading the business and day to day decision making whereas (and I stand to be corrected) it appears matters have to go through the chair for his sanction. 
The good news is that besides the board there are new promoters with strong and refreshing views, hopefully they will not be held back.

Sports betting tips

 

Please do name them as I’m thinking there’s only 1 who is saying the right things .

[mikebv]

53 minutes ago, Neila said:

Regarding averages if a team building average is 38/40/42 but to get a  result in a meeting you need to score 45 points, so the team building average goes up and riders then have a higher often false average, so every year riders have a higher average than their worth. Don't know how to fix this but it just seems to weaken the product every time 

42 is the "perfect" average figure  you get when all seven riders have 4 rides each..

14 heats x 3 points per race per team..

A utopian situation that has so many variables that deliver so many inconsistencies, it becomes almost ridiculous to keep working out a new figure each season and changing it years in year out .

 

 

[Hamish McRaker]

A 50% discount to the average of any under-25 rider produced by a club's junior team would be a good incentive

[tyler42]

On 10/20/2026 at 6:51 PM, M.D said:

Doubling up has never been the issue, we had it from the 70's

Doubling down from the top to below, we never had and thats caused the issues over time.

Yes, we did; the difference being, it was usually the top riders of the 2nd div, i.e., No.1s, who rode at No7. Nowadays you have the farcical situation where a 2nd div heat leader is riding as a heat leader in the Ist div!

[mikebv]

1 hour ago, Hamish McRaker said:

A 50% discount to the average of any under-25 rider produced by a club's junior team would be a good incentive

Good sentiments, but hard to police though I would think.,

Many of these riders would also be riding in the Championship, or maybe the Premiership..

Running a "Colts" team could see them doing less matches than for their other teams, so who should benefit?...

One of the many issues with Doubling Up/Down..

Edited 2 hours ago by mikebv

[mikebv]

8 minutes ago, tyler42 said:

Yes, we did; the difference being, it was usually the top riders of the 2nd div, i.e., No.1s, who rode at No7. Nowadays you have the farcical situation where a 2nd div heat leader is riding as a heat leader in the Ist div!

It was done for development of riders to ensure plenty of UK ones were available for the top league as riders retired, or dropped down and saw their careers out in the 2nd Div..

Giving them a "taster" as to what the top level was, without putting undue pressure on them by losing their other role... 

Now it is done simply to share costs of riders who are 20 years and more veterans of the sport...

Hence restricted race nights for the top tier..

Hence Poland kept the weekend to themselves...

(And now added eight Thursdays,  plus rearrangements).....

"How not to run a sport successfully" would make a decent book title...

 

[tyler42]

So, with the new U21 rule. One rising star U21 and one U21 rider. Will that make the league even weaker? The other U21 rider can be from another country, so in theory, we could have some good youngsters coming over, but from last year's reserves, other than the rising stars, does that mean there will be no places for riders like Tate Zischke, Drew Kemp, Jye Etheridge, and Jorden Jenkins? I also noticed Luke Killeen will turn 22 in April next year. Interesting times.

[CTRSports]

6 minutes ago, tyler42 said:

So, with the new U21 rule. One rising star U21 and one U21 rider. Will that make the league even weaker? The other U21 rider can be from another country, so in theory, we could have some good youngsters coming over, but from last year's reserves, other than the rising stars, does that mean there will be no places for riders like Tate Zischke, Drew Kemp, Jye Etheridge, and Jorden Jenkins? I also noticed Luke Killeen will turn 22 in April next year. Interesting times.

some teams could use that to their benefit depending on resources

could have 4 relatively big hitters in a side, use any you mentioned at no.2 with a decent U21 at 6

Say Sheffield for example

Jack Holder 
Luke Killeen 
Chris Holder
Zach Cook
Josh Pickering
Beau Bailey
Jordy Loftus