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Surely, A supporters club run by supporters, is a supporters club, of which the supporters decide on what any funds are spent on. A supporters club run by the club, is a funding stream run by the club for it's own benefit, and should not be called a supporters club, as it is without the control of the supporters. The way to support a club is to pay through the turnstiles. The clubs responsibility is to provide adequate entertainment to achieve that.

The plan they follow is astoundingly unfit for purpose. In fact it is so far away from being suitable it is truly laughable to think sane men and women sign it off every year.. Promoters spend hours contriving meetings, cobbled together with random septets that some cannot afford, sharing riders together, and all to win a competition which, by their very own operating model, is rendered completely worthless... They collectively must spend literally Millions of pounds each year, all trying to win a competition that they 100% completely devalue by the very way that they run it.... You seriously couldn't make it up could you? Lets be honest, who cares who wins a Speedway prize in the UK? It has zero kudos. So therefore how do you ever hope to attract a crowd to engage with it? You then compound the issue by putting together 'teams' of random riders who may be available to ride for you if they haven't got another better paying job on, or are already double booked elsewhere, and expect fans to become emotionally attached to that club. (Like a team sport should get you involved).. The riders they sign are then expected to have the best equipment at their disposal to 'win' some silverware. The best equipment that costs them a ridiculous amount each year. And all to keep up with other riders who are doing exactly the same.. The riders then (quite understandably) wants recompense for their increased annual outlay. Outlay that actually achieves nothing more than allowing them to 'run to stand still' against their peers. Peers who will be paying out the same, to the same people, using the same top equipment, and getting it expensively tuned by the same tuners.. The Promoters therefore then pay out those Millions of pounds to the riders in the vain hope that they can win something hardly anyone cares about, as 99.9% of the population of this country don't attend a single Speedway meeting (and a big percentage won't even know it exists).. Just to add further 'magic' to the cunning plan, meetings are often arranged around their riders agenda rather than when the fans can attend, leaving meetings crammed in in the dark days of winter after having months of summer devoid of Speedway.. You can then add on an admission fee that is set at the level it is to desperately offset the huge outlay that they choose to pay out, rather than a reflection of the quality of what they are actually selling.. All of the above plan has no place or investment for a national marketing plan it should be noted... Millions paid to riders that the vast majority of the UK have never heard of. In a sport that most people have never heard of. Yet hardly anything spent on marketing.. You spend Millions on the sport yet (astonishingly), run it this way? A truly quite incredible situation and concept isn't it? It should go amateur? Could that be regarded as a step up in certain areas?

So a newly merged thread which hopefully can be kept on topic. (Thanks Phil for locking the original thread and removing some of the posts which had been taken over by various warring parties with nothing to do with Poole - for once!!) Poole 1. Jack Holder 2. Brady Kurtz 3. Nicolai Klindt 4. Josh Grajczonek 5. Richie Worrall 6. Nico Covatti 7. Nikolaj Busk Jakobsen

The supporters club have supported the club in very real terms over the years, they have given substantial donations for the purchase of a new fence, the purchase of a second ambulance, loan fee for riders and many many more. In fact without the supporters club and its donation I suspect Berwick Speedway would've gone by now. The thing I find most distasteful about Mr Barrie`s article is the way we are categorised, either fan or supporter, to me they are one and the same. Anyone spending their money to attend meetings, and in many cases making sacrifices to do so deserve better. It is true there were differences between the club and the supporters club last season but as has already been mentioned bridges were being built. This topic was debated on here and looked to have been put to bed, at least partially, now that can have of worms has been opened again, I will only make the point I made at the time, the club would do well not to pick a fight with its most loyal and those who help the club either directly or in-directly as there is only one winner there.

So he was bad at Wolves and disliked Belle Vue even more yet still averaged nearly 9.5 in a league where most teams contained 2 GP riders Wasnt too shabby overall then......

Honestly IMHO Dick has spelled it out quite succinctly and he is only stating what everyone is aware of, Workington went through this a few years back and the supporters club morphed into the Friends of Workington Speedway and then in to the Workington Speedway Supporters Trust and those bodies injected 20 thousand pounds into Workington Speedway over two seasons becoming the clubs biggest individual sponsor paying for things like medical cover ambulances and other sundry items that go into running a Speedway team and it still didn't save the club. As much as Dick can be a "dick" and isn't everyone's cup of tea he has hit the nail right on the head here and the new Supporters Club needs to support the club; its always nice to run subsidised coaches and give the riders lump sums but the priority has to be keeping the club afloat first and foremost otherwise you can raise as much money as you like but if there is no club to support what do you do then. You still go to the GP but pay for it yourself anyway! Watch TV Speedway and go to the odd meeting up and down the road rather than have a local club to support. Very short sighted in my view All revenue streams need to be coming back to the club to keep the thing viable and you don't need to hand over the cash because lets face it what the issue is here; is that certain folk can think that when they are handing over cash that the promoters just put it straight into their pockets and subsidise their "Playboy Lifestyles" which is not the case. (Courtney's Playboys lol, Sorry Scott) All clubs are operating on a shoe string and the difference to making a small profit or a small loss can be the lifeline that keeps the promotion operating rather than folding another club due to large debts and unsustainable losses. If the Supporters Club worry about where the cash is going commit to paying for something all season, Medical Cover doesn't come cheap pay this direct, the Referee needs to be paid for, meeting fuel and tyres possibly, security or stadium rent, whatever it is; it helps and takes pressure off the promotion. Also it needs to be stated transparency is the key and if you tell people where the funds are being spent and how they are benefiting the club most (not all unfortunately) come on board and understand why this course of action is being followed. Keep an accurate ledger and follow good governance. Keep the faith Bandit Fans and get behind your promotion to ensure you have a Speedway team in the town to support because in this day and age it will be very difficult to resurrect a club once it has gone Good luck with the new Supporters Club Regards THJ

Problem is many supporters clubs do and often quite rightly decide where there funds go as they generated them , now I believe if possible, supporters clubs and promoters/owners must work together , what we have seeen with Workington sadly is that it’s no longer clubs go to the wall but when. Remember if your using the name of your club to have a supporters club then I feel they should be involved with you. no club no supporters club and vice versa, I believe promotions and fans are needed to work together in the hope no more clubs go bust, not something I’m 100% sure certain will be the case sadly.

There is a lot said about speedways aging fan base, but very little about the ancient promoters running the sport. What's needed is some younger people with fresh ideas to shake the whole thing up.

Big dangers for many clubs (even the currently sustainable ones) is that every club thinks on an insular level, considering their own interests and to heck with the other clubs in the country. Without other clubs surviving there is no value to your own business. If this was standard industry drumming out of business to get a large share makes sense but it isn't, if this was football (and sorry hate cross sport comparisons) if one club fell by the wayside there are literally dozens queuing to take its place but in speedway we have the unique situation whereby a group of riders (with personal agendas) sign for clubs (with personal agendas) and are governed by you guessed it an organisation with personal agendas. Until everyone starts pulling in one direction the only way isn't down just apart.

Not enough I would imagine, hence why the club has withdrawn. Speedway has this nasty habit of trying to limit the amount of people and fans it loses, instead of trying to attract new fans. Keep bumping the prices up forcing numbers to decrease further and further until eventually the business is completely unsustainable is not a good business plan. Spin King Junior has hit the nail on the head about the scare tactics.

My question is very simple: WHY SHOULD SOMEONE WHO CHOOSES TO RIDE A SPEEDWAY BIKE EXPECT TO BE PAID? My son drives a Hot Rod. Apart from the support of some very generous sponsors, he meets the rest of the cost out of his own pocket! He even pays to compete. WHAT MAKES A SPEEDWAY RIDER SO SPECIAL?

IMO, the only way forward, is for all the remaining clubs to submit to a central point, such as a 'speedway finance officer', how their set up can break even, each season, based on people through the turnstiles, stadium costs, any other costs and riders costs. Then you look at the worst case scenario, in terms of the least number of fans who will turn up, over a given season. Once you have this information, the BSPA or whoever is the controlling body, then decides on how the speedway model should be going forward, for every club. The answer might turn out to be that the only way forward, is fully amateur and pay purely on results. It should allow speedway to rebuild from the bottom up. OK you will probably lose the big name riders, but we are more or less there now. If the costs for promoters mean they can break even each season, then we may see more tracks open.

I agree that promoters should not spend above what they can afford. This need sot be a group effort though. The wages costs per meeting you mention are I fancy way short of what is paid now. The meeting costs are also well above £3k, the medical staff alone will cost nearly £1k, plus track rent of £1-2k then there's advertising, programmes, licences, fuel & maintenance of track/facilities, rider suits, insurance costs (employee and public), VAT/tax/accountancy etc.etc. It would cause the loss of some riders and maybe some fans short term but the long term gains would be worth it. Everyone has a choice, like it or lump it, If I was a rider today and the only contract I could secure paid me xx per meeting, I'd make sure I cut my expenses so that I still made a bit of money - it's not compulsory to use brand new equipment each year, or give thousands to people who you think might make you a bit faster, or spend on a new leased van every year, or even have a full time or paid mechanic.

Sam Hurst, only rode NL for Newport and Weymouth (well a bit of PL for Newport but out of his depth). Reasonable amount of talent and a good set of balls but lacked the dedication to make it any further.

Totally Agree. People need to be positive, although I know its hard. The period on ice will give the club time to sort its debts out, and regroup and see where they are regarding running again. The way things worked out, and the fact that no one expected the club's season to last until the end of October, meant they had precious little time to assess their situation, before the AGM came along and they had to start talking about 2019 !!! Plus, although I know its unlikely, it gives a whole year almost for them to find new sponsors or for one to come along of his own volition. I think the period on ice will be an opportunity for them to run more special social events this year, all hopefully laid on to raise cash for the clubs future, and not least to ensure fans stay interested ! WATCH THIS SPACE !!

Well said Norman

Scott Courtney praised the Supporters Club for having a bit of class last season. End of the season we handed over £1000 to the STARS project and in Scott's words bridges were being built. There has been a few digs lately in blogs on the Dirt Page regarding the existing supporters club, all I will; say is that if your going to put something on a website that is read by fans and supporters at least get your facts right.

There is one simple fact at Workington Speedway and a lot of other clubs. Not enough fans attending meetings to cover the costs. Sponsorship can only cover so much so for years Laura and other promoters have subsidised our speedway so we can still watch the sport we love. This is unsustainable going forward and Workington will not be the last club to close this year. I'm very surprised there were not more clubs closed during the winter. You only have to look to the premiership one man owns three clubs how can that be right ? The sport is sliding away to nothing and very fast. The riders spend a fortune on equipment and obviously ask for signung money and points money to achieve this but there is not enough money in the sport no more.

Belle Vue 1. Max Fricke 2. Kenneth Bjerre 3. Dan Bewley 4. Steve Worrall 5. Ricky Wells 6. Dimitri Berge 7. Jaimon Lidsey Ipswich 1. Chris Harris 2. Danny King 3. Krystian Pieszczek 4. Richard Lawson 5. David Bellego 6. Jake Allen 7. Cameron Heeps King’s Lynn 1. Robert Lambert 2. Ty Proctor 3. Kasper Andersen 4. 5. 6. 7. Peterborough 1. Craig Cook 2. Hans Andersen 3. Rohan Tungate 4. Bradley Wilson-Dean 5. Charles Wright 6. Lasse Bjerre 7. Ben Barker Poole 1. Jack Holder 2. Brady Kurtz 3. Nicolai Klindt 4. Josh Grajczonek 5. Richie Worrall 6. Nico Covatti 7. Nikolaj Busk Jakobsen Swindon 1. Jason Doyle 2. Troy Batchelor 3. Tobiasz Musielak 4. Adam Ellis 5. Dawid Lampart 6. Zach Wajtknecht 7. James Shanes Wolverhampton 1. Sam Masters 2. Rory Schlein 3. Jacob Thorssell 4. Nick Morris 5. Kyle Howarth 6. Luke Becker 7. Ashley Morris

A supporters club for the club is what’s needed , if there is no club then no speedway it’s that simple . the riders will find other clubs and get paid just the same , maybe it’s a question for the riders whether they would prefer money to go them or the club? I mean if Harry Kane needed new football boots he would not expect supporters to but them for him would he ? (Different sport I know) This is why supporters or fans choose to sponsor a rider so they can provide to offset costs for simple things like tyres and oil Speedway has changed dramatically in the last few years , rising costs and dwindling crowds , which in turn makes it so tough to promote the sport , Jamie Courtney should be applauded for keeping the club running and yes we will have speedway next season. support it or lose it forever , it’s time to step out of the dark ages and move forward together as a club. Who’s the best ? ...................BANDITS

doesn't have to be completely amateur but just don't pay what you can't afford. Its that simple really

Good to see! A fit and hungry (no not in that sense ) Cameron Heeps will be a very handy reserve for us no doubt in my mind at all. In fact, a Heeps/Allen pairing is one area of the team I think we’d ALL agree is a strong one.

The old one....... not versions 2 3 or 4. Version 5 this year I believe

Well here in this part of East Anglia several of us witches fans refer to them as "Peatbog horrors " or shortened to "horrors ". You are welcome to adopt that nickname should you wish In case you are wondering why, in years gone by the track used to resemble to ploughed field when we rode there.

You also have promotors saying all is well, then shutting a club and owing riders thousands as the manager who continued the party line of büllsheet just goes to another club and will no doubt repeat the cycle again. It’s already amateur, and crooked.

The season of 98 we had the world's number 1,3 and 5

But the author has deleted the team listings from the OP.....

As things stand very few clubs are equal and all we have is clubs that are able to survive longer than others rather than a sustainable model. Clubs need to look at the type of riders they want to attract, how many clubs and fans want mercenaries who just arrive for the big money? How many want loyal riders who have an affinity with the club? Higher teams also need to start caring about the development of future riders rather than blanketly ignoring it and assuming someone else will bring the next generation through, if they paid some level of investment now it could save them a fortune in the future. The sport has to fall in line with current commercial trends, quick easy entertainment fixes, cheap and superficial, basic enough for all to grasp quickly but most of all sustainable & adaptable.

That the green isn't always greener on the other side?

Honestly!

Think many of the riders with a bit of experience will up their averages nicely like Mountain, Bacon, Bailey, Perks & Wood. Newman is more than capable but might be forced to ride a bit out of position in a poor side. My bigger issue is with the non improvers filling a place for yet another year, Kurtz, Covatti, Harris, Bates etc either riders on the way down lining pockets or going no further but still blocking up places for riders who might.

Reverse that order ol mate,Ipswich starting to take shape ........

Traditionally tracks in this country staged a full season of meetings. My team Wimbledon ran 38 in 1980!. It works for Len Silver at Kent, less isn't always more.

Not sure where Bickley is going to get a ride now Workington have closed and struggled for much of 2018. Best of the NL guys coming up and most likely to progress imho are Kemp and Brennan and Flint. I am fearful some NL to CL are sacrificial lambs to just fill a slot. Looking at those with some CL experience Shanes ; Mountain and Bowtell should improve average considerably.

I hope the new 2 pointers grab their chance and make great strides led by Kemp Bickley and Flint

With the 4 point decrease in overall points limit, shouldn't riders averages improve naturally? Because primarily of a lower standard most seasons?

Of course, you are assuming they can read!

Arguing with yourself now Geoff!!

Nah I'm sorry. I don't buy the whole "use it or lose it" speedway is way beyond point now. The diehards don't cut it anymore. Promoters need to work on the sport and make it worth the admission and the only way they're going to do that is working on the overall presentation and quality. If it's not there, the sport will die regardless. The sport is absolutely on its arse and scaremongering has never saved a club and it never will.

Been on this forum a long time over 5 years..............took plenty of abuse , flack call it what you like But ive never felt the need to either delete my account and start again or change my name which makes people look a bit sad, needy and a tad pathetic Never had more than the one account.....if people dont like me or what i post then it doesnt affect me that i feel the need to be someone else. To be fair even people like Starman and Shovlar with the amount of stuff they get thrown at them have only ever had the 1 account

You obviously arent aware of the facts and it certainly wasnt a case of Worky outbidding anyone... All you need to do is look at the Workington team to see it was built to a tight budget also BWD wasn't going to ride in the Championship this year until Worky came in for him... Regards THJ

And that has been the case for all of this century. Firstly the BSPA saw the Sky contract as doing enough to "market" the sport in the UK . Oh and for the "loadsa money" that came with it - almost none of which was re-invested in the sport. And with the evolution of the internet that meant they could do the "marketing" almost FOC - and believe that it will do all the work for them!

Whilst what you say is correct are they also the riders who are in a position to purchase a minimum of 2 new engines each? The ideal is to promote switching of engines currently being used before riders even graduate to NL level so that riders stepping up have already purchased these unicorns (mythical standard engines that are competitive and significantly reduce running costs) and know no other way. As things stand the majority of riders at NL level are feeding off higher tiers with engine purchases switching the other way round doesn't quite add up.

A very poorly worded article by Mr Barrie on Berwick Website IMO.

We will indeed geejay, sorry I took so long to reply!

1. Pleased to hear it is manageable, assuming you are meaning speedway debts. My main point was that I could not see BSPA allowing riders being sold and allowing Worky to keep the money if there was substantial debts.That situation would be shady with some promoters with them wriggling out of the debts they owe internally. 2. Yes of course, I had included loan riders who would obviously be back on the market under the control of their own promoters. Do the loan fees to these clubs get returned, assuming they have already been paid of course. 3. We talked about starting a NL team last year in the future but currently it would not be viable, mainly due to, as you say, the league being too southern based and BV being the nearest team for derbies. Also there is currently a shortage of Northern based riders of that quality who could stock that team. There was also the possibly of a combined team say with Redcar sharing the home meetings on an equal basis but, until the new riders appear like they will in future, that idea has to be on the back burner for now. New riders that could emerge on the 500 scene in the near future are Archie, Danny, Alex, Elliott, Jack W, Sam McGurk, following by Luke. Healthy prospects there.

Sooner they do away with the trophy competition and race each team twice home and away, the better.

He attained a Premiership average in 2018 so think that is valid As always we wont find out until the teams are rarified by the powers that be Edit - Im gonna leave rarified in even though I meant ratified

Happy with that Welcome to the Witches Krystian

Just as an aside did anyone see the pictures from the WA state title meeting in Oz? Nice 'retro' racesuit for Cam - one at least 5 years old. Id say that shows his training programme is on track