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Surely, A supporters club run by supporters, is a supporters club, of which the supporters decide on what any funds are spent on. A supporters club run by the club, is a funding stream run by the club for it's own benefit, and should not be called a supporters club, as it is without the control of the supporters. The way to support a club is to pay through the turnstiles. The clubs responsibility is to provide adequate entertainment to achieve that.

The plan they follow is astoundingly unfit for purpose. In fact it is so far away from being suitable it is truly laughable to think sane men and women sign it off every year.. Promoters spend hours contriving meetings, cobbled together with random septets that some cannot afford, sharing riders together, and all to win a competition which, by their very own operating model, is rendered completely worthless... They collectively must spend literally Millions of pounds each year, all trying to win a competition that they 100% completely devalue by the very way that they run it.... You seriously couldn't make it up could you? Lets be honest, who cares who wins a Speedway prize in the UK? It has zero kudos. So therefore how do you ever hope to attract a crowd to engage with it? You then compound the issue by putting together 'teams' of random riders who may be available to ride for you if they haven't got another better paying job on, or are already double booked elsewhere, and expect fans to become emotionally attached to that club. (Like a team sport should get you involved).. The riders they sign are then expected to have the best equipment at their disposal to 'win' some silverware. The best equipment that costs them a ridiculous amount each year. And all to keep up with other riders who are doing exactly the same.. The riders then (quite understandably) wants recompense for their increased annual outlay. Outlay that actually achieves nothing more than allowing them to 'run to stand still' against their peers. Peers who will be paying out the same, to the same people, using the same top equipment, and getting it expensively tuned by the same tuners.. The Promoters therefore then pay out those Millions of pounds to the riders in the vain hope that they can win something hardly anyone cares about, as 99.9% of the population of this country don't attend a single Speedway meeting (and a big percentage won't even know it exists).. Just to add further 'magic' to the cunning plan, meetings are often arranged around their riders agenda rather than when the fans can attend, leaving meetings crammed in in the dark days of winter after having months of summer devoid of Speedway.. You can then add on an admission fee that is set at the level it is to desperately offset the huge outlay that they choose to pay out, rather than a reflection of the quality of what they are actually selling.. All of the above plan has no place or investment for a national marketing plan it should be noted... Millions paid to riders that the vast majority of the UK have never heard of. In a sport that most people have never heard of. Yet hardly anything spent on marketing.. You spend Millions on the sport yet (astonishingly), run it this way? A truly quite incredible situation and concept isn't it? It should go amateur? Could that be regarded as a step up in certain areas?

So a newly merged thread which hopefully can be kept on topic. (Thanks Phil for locking the original thread and removing some of the posts which had been taken over by various warring parties with nothing to do with Poole - for once!!) Poole 1. Jack Holder 2. Brady Kurtz 3. Nicolai Klindt 4. Josh Grajczonek 5. Richie Worrall 6. Nico Covatti 7. Nikolaj Busk Jakobsen

The supporters club have supported the club in very real terms over the years, they have given substantial donations for the purchase of a new fence, the purchase of a second ambulance, loan fee for riders and many many more. In fact without the supporters club and its donation I suspect Berwick Speedway would've gone by now. The thing I find most distasteful about Mr Barrie`s article is the way we are categorised, either fan or supporter, to me they are one and the same. Anyone spending their money to attend meetings, and in many cases making sacrifices to do so deserve better. It is true there were differences between the club and the supporters club last season but as has already been mentioned bridges were being built. This topic was debated on here and looked to have been put to bed, at least partially, now that can have of worms has been opened again, I will only make the point I made at the time, the club would do well not to pick a fight with its most loyal and those who help the club either directly or in-directly as there is only one winner there.

So he was bad at Wolves and disliked Belle Vue even more yet still averaged nearly 9.5 in a league where most teams contained 2 GP riders Wasnt too shabby overall then......

Honestly IMHO Dick has spelled it out quite succinctly and he is only stating what everyone is aware of, Workington went through this a few years back and the supporters club morphed into the Friends of Workington Speedway and then in to the Workington Speedway Supporters Trust and those bodies injected 20 thousand pounds into Workington Speedway over two seasons becoming the clubs biggest individual sponsor paying for things like medical cover ambulances and other sundry items that go into running a Speedway team and it still didn't save the club. As much as Dick can be a "dick" and isn't everyone's cup of tea he has hit the nail right on the head here and the new Supporters Club needs to support the club; its always nice to run subsidised coaches and give the riders lump sums but the priority has to be keeping the club afloat first and foremost otherwise you can raise as much money as you like but if there is no club to support what do you do then. You still go to the GP but pay for it yourself anyway! Watch TV Speedway and go to the odd meeting up and down the road rather than have a local club to support. Very short sighted in my view All revenue streams need to be coming back to the club to keep the thing viable and you don't need to hand over the cash because lets face it what the issue is here; is that certain folk can think that when they are handing over cash that the promoters just put it straight into their pockets and subsidise their "Playboy Lifestyles" which is not the case. (Courtney's Playboys lol, Sorry Scott) All clubs are operating on a shoe string and the difference to making a small profit or a small loss can be the lifeline that keeps the promotion operating rather than folding another club due to large debts and unsustainable losses. If the Supporters Club worry about where the cash is going commit to paying for something all season, Medical Cover doesn't come cheap pay this direct, the Referee needs to be paid for, meeting fuel and tyres possibly, security or stadium rent, whatever it is; it helps and takes pressure off the promotion. Also it needs to be stated transparency is the key and if you tell people where the funds are being spent and how they are benefiting the club most (not all unfortunately) come on board and understand why this course of action is being followed. Keep an accurate ledger and follow good governance. Keep the faith Bandit Fans and get behind your promotion to ensure you have a Speedway team in the town to support because in this day and age it will be very difficult to resurrect a club once it has gone Good luck with the new Supporters Club Regards THJ

Problem is many supporters clubs do and often quite rightly decide where there funds go as they generated them , now I believe if possible, supporters clubs and promoters/owners must work together , what we have seeen with Workington sadly is that it’s no longer clubs go to the wall but when. Remember if your using the name of your club to have a supporters club then I feel they should be involved with you. no club no supporters club and vice versa, I believe promotions and fans are needed to work together in the hope no more clubs go bust, not something I’m 100% sure certain will be the case sadly.

There is a lot said about speedways aging fan base, but very little about the ancient promoters running the sport. What's needed is some younger people with fresh ideas to shake the whole thing up.

Big dangers for many clubs (even the currently sustainable ones) is that every club thinks on an insular level, considering their own interests and to heck with the other clubs in the country. Without other clubs surviving there is no value to your own business. If this was standard industry drumming out of business to get a large share makes sense but it isn't, if this was football (and sorry hate cross sport comparisons) if one club fell by the wayside there are literally dozens queuing to take its place but in speedway we have the unique situation whereby a group of riders (with personal agendas) sign for clubs (with personal agendas) and are governed by you guessed it an organisation with personal agendas. Until everyone starts pulling in one direction the only way isn't down just apart.

Not enough I would imagine, hence why the club has withdrawn. Speedway has this nasty habit of trying to limit the amount of people and fans it loses, instead of trying to attract new fans. Keep bumping the prices up forcing numbers to decrease further and further until eventually the business is completely unsustainable is not a good business plan. Spin King Junior has hit the nail on the head about the scare tactics.

My question is very simple: WHY SHOULD SOMEONE WHO CHOOSES TO RIDE A SPEEDWAY BIKE EXPECT TO BE PAID? My son drives a Hot Rod. Apart from the support of some very generous sponsors, he meets the rest of the cost out of his own pocket! He even pays to compete. WHAT MAKES A SPEEDWAY RIDER SO SPECIAL?

IMO, the only way forward, is for all the remaining clubs to submit to a central point, such as a 'speedway finance officer', how their set up can break even, each season, based on people through the turnstiles, stadium costs, any other costs and riders costs. Then you look at the worst case scenario, in terms of the least number of fans who will turn up, over a given season. Once you have this information, the BSPA or whoever is the controlling body, then decides on how the speedway model should be going forward, for every club. The answer might turn out to be that the only way forward, is fully amateur and pay purely on results. It should allow speedway to rebuild from the bottom up. OK you will probably lose the big name riders, but we are more or less there now. If the costs for promoters mean they can break even each season, then we may see more tracks open.

I agree that promoters should not spend above what they can afford. This need sot be a group effort though. The wages costs per meeting you mention are I fancy way short of what is paid now. The meeting costs are also well above £3k, the medical staff alone will cost nearly £1k, plus track rent of £1-2k then there's advertising, programmes, licences, fuel & maintenance of track/facilities, rider suits, insurance costs (employee and public), VAT/tax/accountancy etc.etc. It would cause the loss of some riders and maybe some fans short term but the long term gains would be worth it. Everyone has a choice, like it or lump it, If I was a rider today and the only contract I could secure paid me xx per meeting, I'd make sure I cut my expenses so that I still made a bit of money - it's not compulsory to use brand new equipment each year, or give thousands to people who you think might make you a bit faster, or spend on a new leased van every year, or even have a full time or paid mechanic.

Sam Hurst, only rode NL for Newport and Weymouth (well a bit of PL for Newport but out of his depth). Reasonable amount of talent and a good set of balls but lacked the dedication to make it any further.

Totally Agree. People need to be positive, although I know its hard. The period on ice will give the club time to sort its debts out, and regroup and see where they are regarding running again. The way things worked out, and the fact that no one expected the club's season to last until the end of October, meant they had precious little time to assess their situation, before the AGM came along and they had to start talking about 2019 !!! Plus, although I know its unlikely, it gives a whole year almost for them to find new sponsors or for one to come along of his own volition. I think the period on ice will be an opportunity for them to run more special social events this year, all hopefully laid on to raise cash for the clubs future, and not least to ensure fans stay interested ! WATCH THIS SPACE !!

Well said Norman

Scott Courtney praised the Supporters Club for having a bit of class last season. End of the season we handed over £1000 to the STARS project and in Scott's words bridges were being built. There has been a few digs lately in blogs on the Dirt Page regarding the existing supporters club, all I will; say is that if your going to put something on a website that is read by fans and supporters at least get your facts right.

There is one simple fact at Workington Speedway and a lot of other clubs. Not enough fans attending meetings to cover the costs. Sponsorship can only cover so much so for years Laura and other promoters have subsidised our speedway so we can still watch the sport we love. This is unsustainable going forward and Workington will not be the last club to close this year. I'm very surprised there were not more clubs closed during the winter. You only have to look to the premiership one man owns three clubs how can that be right ? The sport is sliding away to nothing and very fast. The riders spend a fortune on equipment and obviously ask for signung money and points money to achieve this but there is not enough money in the sport no more.

Belle Vue 1. Max Fricke 2. Kenneth Bjerre 3. Dan Bewley 4. Steve Worrall 5. Ricky Wells 6. Dimitri Berge 7. Jaimon Lidsey Ipswich 1. Chris Harris 2. Danny King 3. Krystian Pieszczek 4. Richard Lawson 5. David Bellego 6. Jake Allen 7. Cameron Heeps King’s Lynn 1. Robert Lambert 2. Ty Proctor 3. Kasper Andersen 4. 5. 6. 7. Peterborough 1. Craig Cook 2. Hans Andersen 3. Rohan Tungate 4. Bradley Wilson-Dean 5. Charles Wright 6. Lasse Bjerre 7. Ben Barker Poole 1. Jack Holder 2. Brady Kurtz 3. Nicolai Klindt 4. Josh Grajczonek 5. Richie Worrall 6. Nico Covatti 7. Nikolaj Busk Jakobsen Swindon 1. Jason Doyle 2. Troy Batchelor 3. Tobiasz Musielak 4. Adam Ellis 5. Dawid Lampart 6. Zach Wajtknecht 7. James Shanes Wolverhampton 1. Sam Masters 2. Rory Schlein 3. Jacob Thorssell 4. Nick Morris 5. Kyle Howarth 6. Luke Becker 7. Ashley Morris

A supporters club for the club is what’s needed , if there is no club then no speedway it’s that simple . the riders will find other clubs and get paid just the same , maybe it’s a question for the riders whether they would prefer money to go them or the club? I mean if Harry Kane needed new football boots he would not expect supporters to but them for him would he ? (Different sport I know) This is why supporters or fans choose to sponsor a rider so they can provide to offset costs for simple things like tyres and oil Speedway has changed dramatically in the last few years , rising costs and dwindling crowds , which in turn makes it so tough to promote the sport , Jamie Courtney should be applauded for keeping the club running and yes we will have speedway next season. support it or lose it forever , it’s time to step out of the dark ages and move forward together as a club. Who’s the best ? ...................BANDITS

doesn't have to be completely amateur but just don't pay what you can't afford. Its that simple really

Good to see! A fit and hungry (no not in that sense ) Cameron Heeps will be a very handy reserve for us no doubt in my mind at all. In fact, a Heeps/Allen pairing is one area of the team I think we’d ALL agree is a strong one.

The old one....... not versions 2 3 or 4. Version 5 this year I believe

Well here in this part of East Anglia several of us witches fans refer to them as "Peatbog horrors " or shortened to "horrors ". You are welcome to adopt that nickname should you wish In case you are wondering why, in years gone by the track used to resemble to ploughed field when we rode there.

You also have promotors saying all is well, then shutting a club and owing riders thousands as the manager who continued the party line of büllsheet just goes to another club and will no doubt repeat the cycle again. It’s already amateur, and crooked.

The season of 98 we had the world's number 1,3 and 5

But the author has deleted the team listings from the OP.....

As things stand very few clubs are equal and all we have is clubs that are able to survive longer than others rather than a sustainable model. Clubs need to look at the type of riders they want to attract, how many clubs and fans want mercenaries who just arrive for the big money? How many want loyal riders who have an affinity with the club? Higher teams also need to start caring about the development of future riders rather than blanketly ignoring it and assuming someone else will bring the next generation through, if they paid some level of investment now it could save them a fortune in the future. The sport has to fall in line with current commercial trends, quick easy entertainment fixes, cheap and superficial, basic enough for all to grasp quickly but most of all sustainable & adaptable.

That the green isn't always greener on the other side?

Honestly!

Think many of the riders with a bit of experience will up their averages nicely like Mountain, Bacon, Bailey, Perks & Wood. Newman is more than capable but might be forced to ride a bit out of position in a poor side. My bigger issue is with the non improvers filling a place for yet another year, Kurtz, Covatti, Harris, Bates etc either riders on the way down lining pockets or going no further but still blocking up places for riders who might.

Reverse that order ol mate,Ipswich starting to take shape ........

Traditionally tracks in this country staged a full season of meetings. My team Wimbledon ran 38 in 1980!. It works for Len Silver at Kent, less isn't always more.

Not sure where Bickley is going to get a ride now Workington have closed and struggled for much of 2018. Best of the NL guys coming up and most likely to progress imho are Kemp and Brennan and Flint. I am fearful some NL to CL are sacrificial lambs to just fill a slot. Looking at those with some CL experience Shanes ; Mountain and Bowtell should improve average considerably.

I hope the new 2 pointers grab their chance and make great strides led by Kemp Bickley and Flint

With the 4 point decrease in overall points limit, shouldn't riders averages improve naturally? Because primarily of a lower standard most seasons?

Of course, you are assuming they can read!

Arguing with yourself now Geoff!!

Nah I'm sorry. I don't buy the whole "use it or lose it" speedway is way beyond point now. The diehards don't cut it anymore. Promoters need to work on the sport and make it worth the admission and the only way they're going to do that is working on the overall presentation and quality. If it's not there, the sport will die regardless. The sport is absolutely on its arse and scaremongering has never saved a club and it never will.

Been on this forum a long time over 5 years..............took plenty of abuse , flack call it what you like But ive never felt the need to either delete my account and start again or change my name which makes people look a bit sad, needy and a tad pathetic Never had more than the one account.....if people dont like me or what i post then it doesnt affect me that i feel the need to be someone else. To be fair even people like Starman and Shovlar with the amount of stuff they get thrown at them have only ever had the 1 account

Im sure he wasnt the only one!

Obviously a better deal than Somerset offered !!, and there you have it, a team pleading poverty which proved correct in the end as they withdrew from the league, and yet offering more than Somerset did. Clubs need to be sensible with their deals, with tracks folding.

I like the NL although I think it used to be a roughly 50/50 mix of clubs using it to develop riders for their other team and stand alone clubs where now there are more stand alone clubs and that changes things. Traditionally the stand alone clubs need to win at home to pull a crowd and have paid their riders more while the development clubs paid base rate but offered better opportunities. I have to say though that doesn't apply to all clubs and Buxton are a big loss to the league because they can no longer afford to be competitive. The standard of NL racing is pretty high I think and compares well with the level of the old second division riders when I was younger in the 70's, the comments I've seen on here about wobblers are generally nonsense. The racing is like all Speedway some good, some poor and the odd great race. The right old hands are absolutely necessary as the kids need somebody to learn from in their own team and to chase from the opposition. Not all old hands are good at this but many are. I suspect that is true at the highest level but a bit further down I think travel and time off work is a bigger expense.

Is it not completely within the gift of clubs to pay riders less today? In turn riders will have to adjust their costs accordingly. The problem is clubs want to field a competitive team and they know that crowds are higher when a team is winning. This creates two competing objectives, cutting your cloth according to your income and fielding a winning team. Given that not all clubs are equal when it comes to income, some have higher crowds, others have more generous sponsors and so on, this creates fundamental inequality in the league. Therefore clubs are forced to decide between fielding a weaker team or pushing their budget to a level higher than their income. And then we've gone full circle. Regardless of how much you cut costs, clubs have one method and one method only to attract riders, money. This is why cost cutting doesn't work. There will always be one club prepared to pay slightly above market rate to attract the best riders and this in turn creates an arms race among all clubs. The only way to ensure a long term sustainable future for British speedway is to boost income.

Surely, if the sport was run on a purely amateur basis, all tracks could be run over the weekend, I know that might clash with greyhounds and stock cars, but there are 3 days over a weekend Friday night, Saturday and Sunday. That way, the riders can still do their day jobs or attend college or whatever.

The fun has gone out of speedway. Why bother to leave the house to attend the track to cheer on boys who have as much commitment to your team as the next land developer who has designs on the venue? Not to mention spending nearly £20 admission in the hope you won't be kept waiting in the cold for two hours or more for 15 minutes of action. Youngsters have a variety of other things to do nowadays so you can't really expect to lure kids and expect them to wait 10 minutes until the next race. If we don't lower our aims and commit to having a league set up which favours the old art of team speedway rather than tinkering with rules to allow riders a decent living in whatever division that can accommodate them, we are done. Speedway is primarily a team sport, where riders turn out in the colours for those on the terraces. That has been completely lost in modern-day speedway. It is important now just to fix the riders up with enough dates in their diary to make a living. The riders are being put ahead of the fans. One night during the 90s I realised that riders I had grew up supporting actually began to feel they were doing the fans some kind of favour. It was the night one particular meeting was held up for around 45 minutes because some competitors had been delayed in Sweden from the night before. Any other entertainment business would have made sure it didn't happen again. But it has, again and again. When you feel that the team you used to glow red-faced just cheering on hasn't anybody in it who would commit the same because it's just a job, and they have a short career, I suppose you can point to the start of speedway's latest death threat. Speedway should make up its mind. Either return it to a team sport - banish the double up and down farce - and give a reason for fans to return, a love for a team of seven of their own riders. Otherwise, what does it exist for?

Whoooosh!!

12 at Somerset was a very impressive performance. So two good scores out of the four away appearances - both on tracks he would never have ridden before. My concern would be the two point drop in his Polish Extraliga average last season.

Better if I don't reply , I get some fun out of it when people create an argument about themselves, then wonder why one does not reply . You couldn't make it up could you.

If barker has some decent equipment underneath him he's gonna score big at reserve expect him to be a 6pt at end of season