Steve Shovlar 10,439 Posted May 31, 2019 Absolutely no way would I support 5 man teams. Has to be 7 man teams with the points limit set between championship and premiership. A second league for the lesser championship teams who can expand the national development league. The problem is finding extra riders. Currently there are not enough to go between the two league without doubling up.Using young NL British riders will help. Sure, some will be out of their depth while others will thrive. Polish Extra league has u21 6 and 7 regardless of ability who stay there even if they are world champion. We should take the same mentality. Seven teams is no good. Not enough variety or meetings. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,278 Posted May 31, 2019 4 hours ago, IronScorpion said: I think you would lose a lot more top riders than Doyle as the likes of Lambert would be too good for British Speedway, probably trying to get spots in 3 European leagues. Also, having a lot of riders doubling leagues, would we not need more NL riders to make up numbers or go to 6 man teams. It needs to cut its cloth accordingly... Domestic Speedway in Britain is a world away from Poland, the GP's and even Sweden.. So plough its own furrow.. At whatever standard.. I've said before, look at the BSB model against the WSB model.. British Superbikes don't try and compete with their more well renowned 'big brother'... Instead they have a very successful competition based on mainly 'decent' UK riders supplemented by riders who have tried the WSB or MotoGp and just came up short.. They augment this by having other competitions aimed at youth development, to ensure when their best move up to WSB, they have replacements ready.. If the likes of Lambert, Doyle etc cannot meet the demands of riding several times per week due to extensive oversees commitments, sometimes at weekend if the clubs require it, then they can move their careers forward elsewhere against riders of a similar level.. If someone of the calibre of Matt Ford is coming out with these type of comments and ideas, then I would suggest Speedway is pretty much being moved from the High Dependancy Unit into the Critical Ward.. Drastic times therefore means drastic measures... And if the patient cannot be revived in the Critical Ward, then no one will be earning any money over here anyway.. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,278 Posted May 31, 2019 21 minutes ago, Steve Shovlar said: Absolutely no way would I support 5 man teams. Has to be 7 man teams with the points limit set between championship and premiership. A second league for the lesser championship teams who can expand the national development league. The problem is finding extra riders. Currently there are not enough to go between the two league without doubling up.Using young NL British riders will help. Sure, some will be out of their depth while others will thrive. Polish Extra league has u21 6 and 7 regardless of ability who stay there even if they are world champion. We should take the same mentality. Seven teams is no good. Not enough variety or meetings. Five man teams will cut wages (by four per match) and hopefully mean more supply than demand which will reduce costs.. And also meaning credibility as more 'subs on the bench' to replace injured riders, rather than using guests... And hopefully mean many more clubs than at present can put together teams at a similar level. Not ideal by any stretch but we heading for the last chance saloon I would say.. It might even need a 'supremo' or 'supreme committee' to start with a blank piece of paper and map out 18 or so 'even teams' (90 riders) and use rider control to deliver it.. If Matt Ford is losing over £10k in two matches what exactly are these lads earning? As I presume 'takings' (without sponsorship) were around £18k - £20k or so for the home leg if around 1000 were there.. Whatever they earn, it must be well out of kilter with the standing of such a miniscule sport (in Britain), for Poole to lose over £10k. Something has to give. And radically.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gambo 1,341 Posted May 31, 2019 9 minutes ago, mikebv said: Five man teams will cut wages (by four per match) and hopefully mean more supply than demand which will reduce costs.. And also meaning credibility as more 'subs on the bench' to replace injured riders, rather than using guests... And hopefully mean many more clubs than at present can put together teams at a similar level. Not ideal by any stretch but we heading for the last chance saloon I would say.. It might even need a 'supremo' or 'supreme committee' to start with a blank piece of paper and map out 18 or so 'even teams' (90 riders) and use rider control to deliver it.. If Matt Ford is losing over £10k in two matches what exactly are these lads earning? As I presume 'takings' (without sponsorship) were around £18k - £20k or so for the home leg if around 1000 were there.. Whatever they earn, it must be well out of kilter with the standing of such a miniscule sport (in Britain), for Poole to lose over £10k. Something has to give. And radically.. Meeting costs are not affected by the number of riders (apart from travel money). It's the number of heats and therefore points that determine the outlay. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orion 7,615 Posted May 31, 2019 Here we go again lets cut the standard ..When will speedway ever learn . Year 30 of the same plan 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,278 Posted May 31, 2019 7 minutes ago, Gambo said: Meeting costs are not affected by the number of riders (apart from travel money). It's the number of heats and therefore points that determine the outlay. Get that, But paying for ten riders will be cheaper than paying for fourteen... As not even Speedway would keep the same costs by letting ten earn the same as fourteen did.. Especially as 'Championship Lite' would need to be the level to ensure enough teams can join 'one big league' I would think.. With the rest running at development level.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HGould 2,213 Posted May 31, 2019 Some interesting comments. I'd prefer 7 man teams and a 45 point limit with a stipulation of Under 21 British Reserves and help kids like Zach,Kemp; Brennan,Thomas,Bickley etc by adjusting their average down to a maximum of 4 until they are 20/21. If we have 7 in PL and 11 in CL surely we could keep 15/16 of the 18 in business and may be a couple move down to NL (Brummies most likely to do that anyway and I hear Berwick struggling for crowds too). I think most would love a 15-16 team league. I'd not want it split geographically though as that would defeat object; and would need to be able to race all 7 days to succeed as many CL are Sat/Sun tracks. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fromafar 10,363 Posted May 31, 2019 It’s took a number of seasons for the “penny to finally drop” with Ford &Co.The fans have been telling them for years 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ch958 2,395 Posted May 31, 2019 1 hour ago, orion said: Here we go again lets cut the standard ..When will speedway ever learn . Year 30 of the same plan you get your chequebook out then 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orion 7,615 Posted May 31, 2019 1 minute ago, ch958 said: you get your chequebook out then To late ...speedway has sunk so low it can't be saved now in the uk . Years of making the standard lower has killed it I think only in speedway can people used the same plan 29 years in a row only to think the way forward is to do the same the next year . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keepturningleft 589 Posted May 31, 2019 Years ago I remember when someone like Barry Briggs came to Halifax for a league meeting, there was a special buzz and an obvious spike in attendance because this, apart from a possible international, was likely to be his one and only appearance at the track for the year. Those special times are gone. As world champion, I doubt if the presence of Jason Doyle attracted a single extra person through the turnstile, with all due respect to Jason. When the same teams and faces are appearing week in and week out, meetings become less meaningful and the sense of anticipation is diluted. The formation of one big league was the salvation of speedway in the 60's, maybe it could be again. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orion 7,615 Posted May 31, 2019 3 minutes ago, keepturningleft said: Years ago I remember when someone like Barry Briggs came to Halifax for a league meeting, there was a special buzz and an obvious spike in attendance because this, apart from a possible international, was likely to be his one and only appearance at the track for the year. Those special times are gone. As world champion, I doubt if the presence of Jason Doyle attracted a single extra person through the turnstile, with all due respect to Jason. When the same teams and faces are appearing week in and week out, meetings become less meaningful and the sense of anticipation is diluted. The formation of one big league was the salvation of speedway in the 60's, maybe it could be again. The big league was hardly the salvation in the 90's thou 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
topaz325 1,859 Posted May 31, 2019 According to the BSPA everything is rosy in British Speedway . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GWC 495 Posted May 31, 2019 1 hour ago, orion said: The big league was hardly the salvation in the 90's thou Principally because the ‘better off’ teams wouldn’t share around their riders so some teams struggled badly. The British league of 1965 was successful because it provided more variety of opposition plus teams were put together under the ‘ rider control’ system. Maybe a similar system would initially be required - especially if Buster owns all the clubs! 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Halifaxtiger 5,318 Posted June 1, 2019 11 hours ago, Steve Shovlar said: Absolutely no way would I support 5 man teams. Has to be 7 man teams with the points limit set between championship and premiership. A second league for the lesser championship teams who can expand the national development league. The problem is finding extra riders. Currently there are not enough to go between the two league without doubling up.Using young NL British riders will help. Sure, some will be out of their depth while others will thrive. Polish Extra league has u21 6 and 7 regardless of ability who stay there even if they are world champion. We should take the same mentality. Seven teams is no good. Not enough variety or meetings. I agree about 5 riders. But 6 (and all taking 5 outings) would be a compromise between the lack of riders and the need to amalgamate the leagues, especially if 1of those 6 was a British junior(as you have suggested). I think it has to be championship level, especially with the increase in travel costs. At the moment, Poole go as far as Manchester and half of the championship clubs are well to the north of that . That still leaves the option open for some to drop into the NL, although again location may play a big part. Berwick, for example, would be about 200 miles away from the nearest current NL club. Its not necessarily the case that the drop in standard of rider (but not racing) will mean a loss in terms of attendances. Word is that Leicester's gates this season have increased, for example, as did Birmingham's when they went into the NL. One thing is certain. With that sort of loss for one meeting, something has to happen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites