Sings4Speedway 3,247 Posted March 18, 2021 16 minutes ago, phillwhitewasmad said: Thing is from my experience i dont believe that any of the parents of the up and coming crop of riders who have funded them so far expect for the funding levels to drop just because they are in a paid position. We certainly dont and have had long conversations with others who all believe that funding if development continues will be into the lads early 20s. Personally we have told our pilot that if it isnt covering costs by this time he has to fund it himself or pack it in. Its a development league not fully expensed professional league. Whilst you are entirely right that costs shouldn't be covered there has to be a level of subsidising to make a NDL place worth it. The current proposed differences between amateur events and the NDL is that at amateur events its pay to ride but with the option to choose when and where you ride (within reason of operating tracks) vs small points monies, fuel contribution but told when and where you must ride. With the midweek matches, loss of earning etc i can see that some will be viewing a crack at league racing just not worth it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gazzac 1,015 Posted March 18, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sings4Speedway said: Whilst you are entirely right that costs shouldn't be covered there has to be a level of subsidising to make a NDL place worth it. The current proposed differences between amateur events and the NDL is that at amateur events its pay to ride but with the option to choose when and where you ride (within reason of operating tracks) vs small points monies, fuel contribution but told when and where you must ride. With the midweek matches, loss of earning etc i can see that some will be viewing a crack at league racing just not worth it. I think you're going to see in the next few seasons if it will be the case, and unfortunately I think you'll be right, potentially good riders won't give it a go.I can't see the continuation of the conveyor belt we've started over the last 5 years with the lads who are making it to the premiership and championship , Kemp, Brennan, Palin plus about 20 others on the way to that point and instead of trying to bring more youngsters in will have the opposite effect unless they've substantial backing. Edited March 18, 2021 by gazzac 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phillwhitewasmad 1,487 Posted March 18, 2021 4 hours ago, Sings4Speedway said: Whilst you are entirely right that costs shouldn't be covered there has to be a level of subsidising to make a NDL place worth it. The current proposed differences between amateur events and the NDL is that at amateur events its pay to ride but with the option to choose when and where you ride (within reason of operating tracks) vs small points monies, fuel contribution but told when and where you must ride. With the midweek matches, loss of earning etc i can see that some will be viewing a crack at league racing just not worth it. Thing is it's a training league whether people like it or not and taking time off work for midweek matches is how speedway runs. If it can't be done at NDL level unfortunately you won't manage at championship level either .agreed some will fall by the wayside and others will progress for a multitude of reasons . Those who can fund the development won't leave because of this it will be other influences 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barrybishop 896 Posted March 19, 2021 10 hours ago, phillwhitewasmad said: Thing is it's a training league whether people like it or not and taking time off work for midweek matches is how speedway runs. If it can't be done at NDL level unfortunately you won't manage at championship level either .agreed some will fall by the wayside and others will progress for a multitude of reasons . Those who can fund the development won't leave because of this it will be other influences The problem is it ALWAYS has been a training league that delivered riders at a greater rate to the higher leagues than any other route. But what this has now become is a misguided, not thought through, imposition in order to "reduce" costs of reserve rider wages for higher leagues. That's the fact of it - remember we attended the 2020 AGM. Costs Costs Costs... Riders not wanting to go up because they were sitting pretty in a league that still delivered riders to the higher leagues year on year on year, yet managed to provide a product and standard close to the CL enabling that step up to happen (not in all cases).... but now, lets get down to real business .... Even when the higher leagues can have the riders for their teams how many do they actually employ....and it will have been even less before the young stars program ?? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,292 Posted March 19, 2021 (edited) 33 minutes ago, barrybishop said: The problem is it ALWAYS has been a training league that delivered riders at a greater rate to the higher leagues than any other route. But what this has now become is a misguided, not thought through, imposition in order to "reduce" costs of reserve rider wages for higher leagues. That's the fact of it - remember we attended the 2020 AGM. Costs Costs Costs... Riders not wanting to go up because they were sitting pretty in a league that still delivered riders to the higher leagues year on year on year, yet managed to provide a product and standard close to the CL enabling that step up to happen (not in all cases).... but now, lets get down to real business .... Even when the higher leagues can have the riders for their teams how many do they actually employ....and it will have been even less before the young stars program ?? I think its very telling by the lack of Premiership teams who run a "junior team", and how many Championship teams have launched one, that one of the reasons for what has taken place is down to trying to clearly get a demarcation in standards between the Championship and the NDL.. It isnt a hard sell for Belle Vue to sell Premiership and NDL Speedway as the standards are so different, which is then reflected in the price... However, I would imagine it would have been a tough ask to sell the Championship to fans of joint Championship/NDL teams when you would have paid around £17/£18 to watch seven or eight or so riders that a week later you could have paid out a tenner to see all of them ride at the same venue.. You would have been struggling to justify an 80% price point differential I would think.. Edited March 19, 2021 by mikebv 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MattB 177 Posted March 24, 2021 On 2/27/2021 at 8:21 PM, Hawk127 said: Sad that the current cronies of this once good sport have stifled one of the few bright hopes when it comes to running meetings as an entertainment. IOW have lead the way in how an evening of speedway should be presented engaging with fans etc just as it used to be in days gone by and probably this goes back in the late 60’s and 70’s and the days of leaping Len, dearly departed Dave Lanning at Eastbourne and the great JH at Canterbury. What is it the BSPL are thinking when they have/are driving clubs. out of business. Those in authority are probably taking a leaf out of dictator Boris Johnson’s book and do as I say. For those who run the sport they still expect the paying punter to turn up week in week out without question. If ever an independent enquiry was needed to investigate as to how speedway is run in this country, now is that time. I doubt that anyone of those who voted on these measures or sit on the board or are part of the committee, have the balls to be answerable for the issues by coming on this forum and deal with the questioning from those who really care about speedway in this country. The BSPL has no balls when it comes to being accountable. I can't escape the feeling that a portion of this is driven by jealousy of what the IOW have been doing in terms of promoting "outside the box" as it were. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crescent girl 1,907 Posted March 24, 2021 Looking at the IoW situation from afar, l'm baffled as to why such a go-ahead, progressive promotion (as l'm repeatedly told they are) felt they couldn't continue to promote their terrific brand of speedway in what would be a nine-team NDL? All the reduced points limit would in effect have meant is they would have to replace one seven-point rider with a new three-pointer -- and if their promotional ideas are so effervescent, their shows so attractive to their public -- surely this shouldn't have been a deal-breaker? The NDL set-up seems to suit the other eight teams well enough -- what is it that the IoW promotion feel would prevent them continuing to put on their much-acclaimed presentations? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ringitsneck 348 Posted March 24, 2021 11 minutes ago, crescent girl said: Looking at the IoW situation from afar, l'm baffled as to why such a go-ahead, progressive promotion (as l'm repeatedly told they are) felt they couldn't continue to promote their terrific brand of speedway in what would be a nine-team NDL? All the reduced points limit would in effect have meant is they would have to replace one seven-point rider with a new three-pointer -- and if their promotional ideas are so effervescent, their shows so attractive to their public -- surely this shouldn't have been a deal-breaker? The NDL set-up seems to suit the other eight teams well enough -- what is it that the IoW promotion feel would prevent them continuing to put on their much-acclaimed presentations? Ego perhaps ? They have stated their case in umpteen forms and that’s fine, the final choice was theirs. The claim about costs of reserves wages in the championship doesn’t hold true. Reserves will be paid what reserves get, no cost saving for anybody there. Mildenhall are giving it a go and the latest ‘ IOW for France’ headline is getting them the headlines they seek. I find it very sad that they felt the need to leave the NDL but it’s their business, they chose to leave so it’s their decision. I do hope they resurface somewhere down the line in the NDL or even championship. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Whisperer 276 Posted March 24, 2021 21 minutes ago, crescent girl said: Looking at the IoW situation from afar, l'm baffled as to why such a go-ahead, progressive promotion (as l'm repeatedly told they are) felt they couldn't continue to promote their terrific brand of speedway in what would be a nine-team NDL? All the reduced points limit would in effect have meant is they would have to replace one seven-point rider with a new three-pointer -- and if their promotional ideas are so effervescent, their shows so attractive to their public -- surely this shouldn't have been a deal-breaker? The NDL set-up seems to suit the other eight teams well enough -- what is it that the IoW promotion feel would prevent them continuing to put on their much-acclaimed presentations? I think you've missed their point a little Dick, their irk is with the way it has been done without consultation or reference to the effect on the IOW. Barry has said on more than one occasion if there had been some discussion their may have been room for compromise or negotiation. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chris116 756 Posted March 24, 2021 1 minute ago, Whisperer said: I think you've missed their point a little Dick, their irk is with the way it has been done without consultation or reference to the effect on the IOW. Barry has said on more than one occasion if there had been some discussion their may have been room for compromise or negotiation. The Speedway Tavern earlier this week both Barry and Martin made it clear that the lack of consultation and discussion was the real problem. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gazzac 1,015 Posted March 24, 2021 49 minutes ago, Whisperer said: I think you've missed their point a little Dick Who's been pointing a little Dick? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barrybishop 896 Posted March 24, 2021 47 minutes ago, Ringitsneck said: Ego perhaps ? They have stated their case in umpteen forms and that’s fine, the final choice was theirs. The claim about costs of reserves wages in the championship doesn’t hold true. Reserves will be paid what reserves get, no cost saving for anybody there. Mildenhall are giving it a go and the latest ‘ IOW for France’ headline is getting them the headlines they seek. I find it very sad that they felt the need to leave the NDL but it’s their business, they chose to leave so it’s their decision. I do hope they resurface somewhere down the line in the NDL or even championship. Hi there, I dont know who you are because sadly people on here say things under a Pseudonym, which is unfortunate, and I therefore have no idea who you are nor if you have attended a NL AGM (or any Speedway AGM). If you did attend the NL AGM, then you are clearly trying to cover up the real reason for the reduced limit and this is costs, costs, costs as the chairman shouted across the AGM room at the gathered NL Chairmen (we are not officially promoters) back in 2019. If you didnt attend it, then I you have a right to think as you please, but I can assure you the NL will develop the riders for the CL whatever the points limit. Ego.... absolutely not. Standing up for ourselves so at to not be treated as we (and others promoters) have been treated. To say it is wrong to be treated in such a way, to say that we will not allow it was absolutely the right decision to take. As you say it has been said and will continue to be said - you will note the BSPL do not deny it - in any way. They will not of course. French League please call Thierry Bouin and ask him... he can update you if he thinks it is a "media stunt".... one thing I have learnt in live us undersell and over deliver so if I had nothing other than positive reactions there is no way I would a, make a right Charlie of myself and look a fool to our fans, sponsors and riders and b, annoy the league we want to join. So there is nothing but the truth in all that is said and we very much hope to be part of their league. Finally, it is heartbreaking to leave the NDL, we have been part of its success, people love their trips to the island, the IOW actually has improved the overall show at most tracks in the UK... ask them.... they tell me they actively watch us... and that was recognised by the many award we have won. Regards returning to the NL.. the answer remains a firm no unless the leadership changes. Although of course as they concluded in their final email from the office admin, were Martin and I wish to bring the Warriors back we would be treated as a new joiner, have to pay a joining fee and have no vote..... it is a pity this was not employed for all the new joiners to the 2021 NL. Keep safe and keep the debate. All the best Barry 8 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ringitsneck 348 Posted March 24, 2021 Thank you for posting an interesting response. Obviously I was not at the NDL AGM and my post was one from a long term , northern based, fans point of view. As I said, it’s your business and your choice as what to do with your club, I have no issue with you or your choice. Whilst it’s disappointing any club finds reason to withdraw from a division because of the rules that have been put in place the same rules have encouraged other clubs to join that otherwise , I’ve been informed, would not have done. I do appreciate that the lack of consultation would have been a major issue and I personally , in your situation, would have also been extremely annoyed with the way the sport is being run. I am no fan of the ‘ top table ‘ and can only see the sport I love going down the toilet with the current leadership but I also don't see them letting go of the power to an independent body to try and rescue it. Good luck with whatever avenue you take I just find it a shame you didn’t take the Mildenhall approach and give it a try but as Ive said, your club , your choice. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hawk127 1,359 Posted March 24, 2021 It is disappointing that the current trustees of the sport are so insular and rarely listen or take on board the wider comments or views of the punters who cross the threshold to be entertained weekly. Some clubs simply lay on fifteen heats of gate and go and as such simply go through the motions while others attempt an evening of entertainment. In terms of running this sport the powers that be have created a public image that appears to be do as I say or sod off but that is not the answer if the sport is to prosper. Whether it is an accurate portrayal but for example the Scunthorpe leadership seem to have the ear of the board and have been allowed to be in the enviable position over the last few seasons when the sport has been operational, to dictate what other clubs can or cannot do. Rider usage and race nights are seemingly two examples where some influence appears to have been exerted Surely with the sport on its knees those with the business acumen such as the IOW should be allowed to prosper and encouraged to think outside the box based not least on their locality particular if this means that the model leads to the introduction of new fans to the sport. As is mentioned often it is not the supporters money at risk apart from the gamble of the weekly entrance fee yet promotions like the Islanders are putting hard earned cash on the line and are trying to operate a business that provides above all else, entertainment. First and foremost speedway is a form of entertainment and given all the issues over riders access to funds and it is down to those riders who have sponsors with deep pockets, speedway does not operate on a level playing field and all the nonsense about rising stars etc still depends on those riders having access to what in effect is a bottomless pit of money in order to compete. Unless and until bikes are standardised, riders use bike handling skills rather than gate and go on over powered machines and those like the IOW are permitted to judge the local business case with risk and reward, then the sport has little credibility and the guarantee that the punters will be entertained is falling well short of fulfilment. I would rather see the IOW entertain than watch fifteen run of the mill heats and disappointed that the current incumbents of the BSPL have so little regard for anyone but their own little enclave. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Halifaxtiger 5,318 Posted March 24, 2021 (edited) I am not aware that any of the clubs who have joined the NDL have said publicly that they would not have done so without a reduction in the points limit. Given that that would support the decision made by the BSPL (of which they are all members), I find that surprising if indeed it is true. According to a post from Islander a week or so ago, Eastbourne, Belle Vue and Kent had confirmed that they had no difficulty with a higher points limit. Given that Kent will have to - due to planning permission requirements - run NDL meetings on a different night to Championship ones and given that the Colts have always had separate race nights from the Aces, that's no wonder (the Colts have always built teams to the full points limit with a definite eye on winning the competition). Mildenhall made it clear that they wanted no reduction, and Isle of Wight were the same. Its not difficult to conclude why no NDL AGM was allowed and why the points limit was imposed : because the changes planned to suit the Premiership and Championship (over half of whom don't even have any involvement in that league) might well have been voted down. If those that have entered the NDL did so with the primary intention of development, then it doesn't really matter what the limit is and thus it would have been no reason for them not to join. There's no doubt if Barry had felt that Isle of Wight could have reasonably have continued to participate in the NDL they would have done. Faced with an organising body that could not care less about his opinions and the success of his business (only their own self interest) and with absolutely no guarantee that this situation might change, its little wonder that he took the action that he did. If we are to point fingers at who is to blame for Isle of Wight's withdrawal, lets make sure they are pointing in the right direction. Edited March 24, 2021 by Halifaxtiger 13 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites