PersonalResponsibility Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 1 hour ago, mikebv said: It was used as a development tool so riders could move up to see if they could compete, but with a safety net of being able to still ride in the 2nd tier if they were not of top tier level... Now it is the most important fundamental part of the operating model and business plan, even including which nights clubs have to race on... Incredible how it has been allowed to happen.... You say it's incredible but we should've seen it coming a mile off. As said, Premiership teams can fill their 3-7 with decent riders who are subsidised by Championship clubs, and Championship clubs can get 1/5s who are subsidised by their Premiership club. Everyone* benefits at the same time as saving every club some cash. It's the sort of thing speedway promoters dream of. *aside from fans, who have to watch the sport slowly wain over years and years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sings4Speedway Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 19 minutes ago, kevin bass said: And the majority of the riders rocked up in the pits with 1 bike or 2 if they were lucky strapped to the back of a car, and if they had bike problems they'd fall back on the track spare to use, not like now where they all expect sponsored sign written vans with 3 or 4 bikes in the back. Its not all down to the riders though. Promotors demand riders turn up with 2 x well maintained bikes. The turnaround time of fixtures and fragility of a modern bike compared a more durable older machine dictates that a third bike/spare is a practical option. Then theres milage picking Jason Edwards out as a standard british double upper (no offence meant) Jason has a 500 mile round trip to home meetings at Redcar. Multiply that by 10-15 depending on cup runs etc, then double it for away fixtures rough estimate 30k miles a year......who would be willing to put that on their own vehicle each year for no sensible offset against the depreciation 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 11 minutes ago, PersonalResponsibility said: You say it's incredible but we should've seen it coming a mile off. As said, Premiership teams can fill their 3-7 with decent riders who are subsidised by Championship clubs, and Championship clubs can get 1/5s who are subsidised by their Premiership club. Everyone* benefits at the same time as saving every club some cash. It's the sort of thing speedway promoters dream of. *aside from fans, who have to watch the sport slowly wain over years and years. And that is the frustration.. Like so many things, the obvious conclusion of so many of the ridicuous parts of the operating model and business plan have been warned about on here for donkeys years.. Yet. Those making the plan blindly carried on doing the same thing each year to deliver the obvious, and only, result of what we have today... An amazing "head in the sand" level of leadership.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeOldPitGate Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 3 minutes ago, Sings4Speedway said: Its not all down to the riders though. Promotors demand riders turn up with 2 x well maintained bikes. The turnaround time of fixtures and fragility of a modern bike compared a more durable older machine dictates that a third bike/spare is a practical option. Then theres milage picking Jason Edwards out as a standard british double upper (no offence meant) Jason has a 500 mile round trip to home meetings at Redcar. Multiply that by 10-15 depending on cup runs etc, then double it for away fixtures rough estimate 30k miles a year......who would be willing to put that on their own vehicle each year for no sensible offset against the depreciation As we all know there are no easy answers we are probably now at the stage of least worst choices, another big issue with doubling up is given the acute shortage of riders in the UK when someone like Lawson or Wright for example retire its not one but two teams that then have a problem of being a rider short for the next year. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 16 minutes ago, YeOldPitGate said: As we all know there are no easy answers we are probably now at the stage of least worst choices, another big issue with doubling up is given the acute shortage of riders in the UK when someone like Lawson or Wright for example retire its not one but two teams that then have a problem of being a rider short for the next year. You would have thought that, around at least, five years or so ago, "someone" would have noticed the ages of these lads who are now into their 30's and 40's, and thought... "Who will replace them?".... Obviously, around this time, "someone" also diluted the NDL level, and very few teams have ran a second team, or any meaningful NDL races during their meetings, possibly, due to riders no longer being assets? Meaning a team could train up a rider, financially support him, and then another team pays him more to join them.. A properly disjointed plan, which smacks of a lack of clear vision and leadership.... Which is really the ultimate issue for UK Speedway.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPEEDY69 Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 30 minutes ago, YeOldPitGate said: As we all know there are no easy answers we are probably now at the stage of least worst choices, another big issue with doubling up is given the acute shortage of riders in the UK when someone like Lawson or Wright for example retire its not one but two teams that then have a problem of being a rider short for the next year. There's actually quite a lot of riders who'll soon be hanging up their boots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin bass Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 23 minutes ago, SPEEDY69 said: There's actually quite a lot of riders who'll soon be hanging up their boots. Yeah Scotty,Harris,Troy.B, Lawson, King, Cook, Wright and Barker just off the top of my head are all late 30's or 40 plus, there's probably a few more ive missed and all. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 (edited) 18 minutes ago, kevin bass said: Yeah Scotty,Harris,Troy.B, Lawson, King, Cook, Wright and Barker just off the top of my head are all late 30's or 40 plus, there's probably a few more ive missed and all. Which makes the lack of "one league", due to the level of riders it would need, even more baffling... There won't be any other answer than to use NDL second strings, and even reserves, to fill spaces in just a few years, so why wait? At least, starting this season, give these riders plenty of rides... EVERY meeting should have some NDL level races for those who are not tier two ready currently... Instead we have... ?????????? As a joined up development programme... Edited February 20 by mikebv 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 51 minutes ago, mikebv said: Instead we have... ?????????? ... a cut back, reduced NDL! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrickn Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 2 hours ago, Sings4Speedway said: Its not all down to the riders though. Promotors demand riders turn up with 2 x well maintained bikes. The turnaround time of fixtures and fragility of a modern bike compared a more durable older machine dictates that a third bike/spare is a practical option. Then theres milage picking Jason Edwards out as a standard british double upper (no offence meant) Jason has a 500 mile round trip to home meetings at Redcar. Multiply that by 10-15 depending on cup runs etc, then double it for away fixtures rough estimate 30k miles a year......who would be willing to put that on their own vehicle each year for no sensible offset against the depreciation That's a big problem.I know it's a long time ago,but when Halifax re-opened,only one rider,Dave Younghusband,lived more than 10 miles away from Halifax,so apart from minimum travelling for home meetings,it really felt like a home team you were supporting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 (edited) 2 hours ago, Sings4Speedway said: Its not all down to the riders though. Promotors demand riders turn up with 2 x well maintained bikes. The turnaround time of fixtures and fragility of a modern bike compared a more durable older machine dictates that a third bike/spare is a practical option. Then theres milage picking Jason Edwards out as a standard british double upper (no offence meant) Jason has a 500 mile round trip to home meetings at Redcar. Multiply that by 10-15 depending on cup runs etc, then double it for away fixtures rough estimate 30k miles a year......who would be willing to put that on their own vehicle each year for no sensible offset against the depreciation In 2003 I did nearly 80 meetings with an average round trip of 400 miles per meeting, my van which I paid for was doing around 60-80k miles a year riding sometimes 4 times per week and washed and prepped my own bikes,,worked part time mechanic for Adam skornicki and sometimes washed Joe screens bikes and worked as a full time courier often delivering on way to meetings and sometimes after meetings and I did it for peanuts so forgive me if I have little sympathy for the likes of Jason Edward’s ,they don’t know they are born Edited February 20 by THE DEAN MACHINE 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAST GATER Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Derrickn said: That's a big problem.I know it's a long time ago,but when Halifax re-opened,only one rider,Dave Younghusband,lived more than 10 miles away from Halifax,so apart from minimum travelling for home meetings,it really felt like a home team you were supporting. Traveling has always been a big demand on riders ,in the 70's we came back from Workington to Chester on a Friday night( after midnight ) in work Saturday till lunch time .Then we washed and prepared two bikes in the afternoon ready for Eastborne the next day .The rider did all the driving towing a two bike trailer and scored a paid max Friday and I think 13 from five on Sunday and he was back at work Monday morning as a panel beater . He was one of the NL all time greats IMO as well Edited February 20 by FAST GATER 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAST GATER Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 3 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said: In 2003 I did nearly 80 meetings with an average round trip of 400 miles per meeting, my van which I paid for was doing around 60-80k miles a year riding sometimes 4 times per week and washed and prepped my own bikes,,worked part time mechanic for Adam skornicki and worked as a full time courier often delivering on way to meetings and sometimes after meetings and I did it for peanuts so forgive me if I have little sympathy for the likes of Jason Edward’s ,don’t know they are born A "proper s/way rider I witnessed many riders like yourself in 70's and 80's the bedrock of the sport now sadly long gone . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 3 minutes ago, FAST GATER said: A "proper s/way rider Well I wouldn’t go that far 😂 I had a go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 17 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said: In 2003 I did nearly 80 meetings with an average round trip of 400 miles per meeting, my van which I paid for was doing around 60-80k miles a year riding sometimes 4 times per week and washed and prepped my own bikes,,worked part time mechanic for Adam skornicki and sometimes washed Joe screens bikes and worked as a full time courier often delivering on way to meetings and sometimes after meetings and I did it for peanuts so forgive me if I have little sympathy for the likes of Jason Edward’s ,they don’t know they are born A baffling comment that Matt Ford made in his SS interview was that Poland could pay riders half of what they do and the riders would still be very well paid.... Thus, by paying riders less it would reduce the gap between the UK salary and Poland's... Therefore, making the UK salary more attractive to some riders... Maybe just paying riders what you can afford to pay them, is the more simpler idea? And, if they don't want to ride for that money, ask someone else who will.... 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 (edited) 6 minutes ago, mikebv said: A baffling comment that Matt Ford made in his SS interview was that Poland could pay riders half of what they do and the riders would still be very well paid.... Thus, by paying riders less it would reduce the gap between the UK salary and Poland's... Therefore, making the UK salary more attractive to some riders... Maybe just paying riders what you can afford to pay them, is the more simpler idea? And, if they don't want to ride for that money, ask someone else who will.... I once asked Mike Bowden at Plymouth why he booked me for so many meetings as I lived over 200 miles away, he said because 1 you always do well here and 2 when I phone you you never ask how much am I getting paid Edited February 20 by THE DEAN MACHINE 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 2 hours ago, mikebv said: Which makes the lack of "one league", due to the level of riders it would need, even more baffling... There won't be any other answer than to use NDL second strings, and even reserves, to fill spaces in just a few years, so why wait? At least, starting this season, give these riders plenty of rides... EVERY meeting should have some NDL level races for those who are not tier two ready currently... Instead we have... ?????????? As a joined up development programme... The only silver lining to all this is it’s looking more likely that I can achieve my childhood dream of representing The Aces on track. I might not be at Dans level but who cares, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 (edited) 11 minutes ago, ouch said: The only silver lining to all this is it’s looking more likely that I can achieve my childhood dream of representing The Aces on track. I might not be at Dans level but who cares, right? Not at Dan's level yet!!! Is what you mean... Who knows though.... Keep practicing and you never know.... Edit. I've just told my mate that Ouch was taking up Speedway and that he doesn't think he will be as good as Dan.. He said "Who the eff are Ouch and Dan, and what the eff is Speedway?".. See. Already you are at Dan's level... Edited February 20 by mikebv 2 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 2 hours ago, mikebv said: A baffling comment that Matt Ford made in his SS interview was that Poland could pay riders half of what they do and the riders would still be very well paid.... Thus, by paying riders less it would reduce the gap between the UK salary and Poland's... Therefore, making the UK salary more attractive to some riders... Maybe just paying riders what you can afford to pay them, is the more simpler idea? And, if they don't want to ride for that money, ask someone else who will.... That seems to sensible for Speedway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Jacobs Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 2 hours ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said: I once asked Mike Bowden at Plymouth why he booked me for so many meetings as I lived over 200 miles away, he said because 1 you always do well here and 2 when I phone you you never ask how much am I getting paid John Louis once told me that he gave up putting on second half "junior" races, because he was fed up with making phone calls, and the first questions was: "How much do you pay?" ... JL was 28 when he started riding speedway, and spent his first efforts just turning up and asking if he could get a ride, and still riding for nothing when he was asked back. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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