Aces v Witches 20th April 7:30

[ouch]

The tedious attempts at points scoring with regards to attendance is all a bit pointless as NOBODY has any right to crow about their attendance as they are all rubbish. I few hundred more here or there is no kind of win for a sport that use to attract thousands. Sure discuss on track battles but with regards attendances we need to lose the me me me insular thinking of the previous guy and look at the bigger picture collectively.

Given the well documented and well know issues at Belle Vue we are still the only club to have had support that allows us to remain in the top tier. Other clubs chop and change when their support drops off again and this impacts us in our league as we don’t know who we will be against from one year to another. Having said that I’m not expecting Ipswich to drop down again as Colman is a breath of fresh air when compared to the cartel member he rescued the club from. I think he will be a wonderful ally but hope he doesn’t alienate himself from the home crowd as the wind of change takes hold. 

[noaksey]

2 hours ago, PhilTheAce said:

i do worry for my club this season though, the activity on my belle vue facebook page is down by more than double in interactions, im guessing a winter of delays have made people just give up on the sport

No mainstream tv as well means reduced interest in the sport generally whether people like that or not 

[Baldyman]

There is no way Louis would have had Lawson turn up with dirty bikes, he was a stickler for professionalism 

[TTT]

The Lawson bike talk really is moaning for the sake of moaning tbh.

Lawson's Dirty Bikes -> 6 Points from 4 Rides.......Nicholls and Hellstrom-Bangs Clean Bikes -> 1+1 from 6 Rides.

Clean/Dirty bikes really didn't make make a difference at all, Just got beat by the better team on the night.

[Baldyman]

6 minutes ago, TTT said:

The Lawson bike talk really is moaning for the sake of moaning tbh.

Lawson's Dirty Bikes -> 6 Points from 4 Rides.......Nicholls and Hellstrom-Bangs Clean Bikes -> 1+1 from 6 Rides.

Clean/Dirty bikes really didn't make make a difference at all, Just got beat by the better team on the night.

But it's the same as going into work with dirty shoes and clothes on

[SPEEDY69]

3 hours ago, Roger Jacobs said:

But ... the point is that most, if not all, tracks can say the same. Better attendances for big rivalries or Bank Holidays, yet the extra people aren't tempted back for "normal" meetings, even at the NSS where very good racing is expected. Why not?

It's not a new "cost of living" thing, it's been happening for a while, and needs to be addressed by the sport as a whole ...

It's because it's not the racing which attracts the numbers, nor is it cost alone.  People need to feel they get value for money and have a good time when there.  Not stand around disengaged - it's engagement which is key.

[Gavan]

4 hours ago, Phannan said:

It’s no disgrace to not be able to ride a farmers field 

A track that time after time Bewley admits he loves riding 

Granted Ipswich isn’t a great track certainly not on the class of Belle Vue….. but like all tracks some riders rode better than others…. That’s why last season we struggled against kings Lynn at home as their riders can ride out place 

Belle Vue fans get very touchy when you mention they can’t ride Foxhall … but that’s speedway 

[Gavan]

1 hour ago, ouch said:

A game of two halves with the first being very gate’n’go that played into the witches hands given their preference for that type of heat (which I’m expecting to change with Colman onboard). Heat 8 onwards was terrific if you like racing and The Aces pulled away. Happy with the contribution from all Aces and pleased to see our Tom still mixing it. I thought we’d be outgunned at reserve but I’m happy with the 6-7 match up. Enjoyable but chilly night. 

Yes we at Ipswich absolutely loved gate and go it’s what we dream about 

Your pedantic patter around Belle Vue having the best track is rather tiresome …. We all know you have the best track yawn

Your Tom??? Binned him and kept Blodorn lol

[SPEEDY69]

3 hours ago, IainB said:

It's attitude and pretty much sums up the attitude of British Speedway at the moment that this kind of turn out is acceptable, like I said it's not the first time.

It's no good turning up at tracks being beaten before you're started. I hate to name Scott Nicholls as another one but how often have you heard him say he doesn't go well around the NSS, his performance last night was I hate to say pathetic!

Mon Apr 20th 2026	Belle Vue v Ipswich (PRa)	4	0, 0, 0	0
Mon May 2nd 2022	Belle Vue v Peterborough (PRa)	2	1, R, 1	2
Mon Jul 25th 2022	Belle Vue v Peterborough (PRb)	4	0, 1', 1, 1	3	+1
Mon May 31st 2021	Belle Vue v Peterborough (PRa)	4	1, 2', 0, 3	6	+1
Mon Aug 9th 2021	Belle Vue v Peterborough (PRb)	4	0, 1, 2, 2	5
Mon Oct 11th 2021	Belle Vue v Peterborough (PRPO)	4	1, 3, 3, 3, 3, 1'	14	+1

I don't think he turns up beaten before he starts - 30 wins out of 130ish rides there, suggests he was down on what he should get.  However he's never as good on a slick track and did have poor gate positions in his first two and then up against K&B in his third.  This is what makes a good team, covering for those having an off night.

[Phannan]

1 hour ago, Gavan said:

A track that time after time Bewley admits he loves riding 

Granted Ipswich isn’t a great track certainly not on the class of Belle Vue….. but like all tracks some riders rode better than others…. That’s why last season we struggled against kings Lynn at home as their riders can ride out place 

Belle Vue fans get very touchy when you mention they can’t ride Foxhall … but that’s speedway 

Fair point. I’m actually a Bradford fan from the early 70s onwards. And Odsal was definitely a good track. The Shay , Halifax was decent, especially when king Kenny was flying round it. I do go to Belle Vue occasionally though, mainly because I couldn’t stomach watching Jack Holder at Sheffield 😁

[YeOldPitGate]

4 hours ago, mikebv said:

Pretty much it...

Add in almost zero atmosphere due to hardly any (if any at all), away fans, and it certainly isn't an "event" that stirs the blood...

The Play Offs are similar to when a small football team get to Wembley...

All their "followers" turn out, yet the week later, the usual "fans" are in the ground with the "followers" sat at home, (maybe), checking the score now and again....

The sport needs root and branch radical change if it wants to carry on..

Having to charge £25 to stand and watch, so you can pay riders what they want to ride for you, riders who will put hardly one extra person through the turnstile, meaning you have minimal budget for marketing, or enhancing  "the match day experience" is truly barmy from a business perspective...

Yet they continue to slavishly follow the same business and unfit for purpose operating model...

Amazing...

 

Haven't got time to read through all the threads today so apologies if you have already answered this Mike but what was the crowd like in the end as remember you saying yesterday advance ticket sales weren't looking great ?

If it was a dire crowd can't see it being good news for the sport generally when you consider best track in the country headed by two of the globes most exciting riders and still punters not turning up. I think this winters problems have unfortunately put a few more nails in the speedway box top sadly.

[TTT]

1 hour ago, Baldyman said:

But it's the same as going into work with dirty shoes and clothes on

Some people do depending on their trade of work lol.

If Lawson was turning up with lawnmowers and ended up going R, 1, 0, R then I could understand the backlash, But he's scored the amount of points that was predicted for him and the dirty bikes didn't have any impact on the result.

Lawson's dirty bikes aren't anything to worry about from a fan perspective but Hellstrom-Bangs form is, The Club can't afford to carry him when age has caught up with Scotty to a point where he's going to struggle to score anything around tracks that he'll have to ride at the business end of the season if Ipswich make the Top 4.....(Scotty's still a legend though)

[mikebv]

40 minutes ago, YeOldPitGate said:

Haven't got time to read through all the threads today so apologies if you have already answered this Mike but what was the crowd like in the end as remember you saying yesterday advance ticket sales weren't looking great ?

If it was a dire crowd can't see it being good news for the sport generally when you consider best track in the country headed by two of the globes most exciting riders and still punters not turning up. I think this winters problems have unfortunately put a few more nails in the speedway box top sadly.

According to the Unofficial Fans Facebook page, the lowest seen at the NSS....

No idea when pre sales are so low why hundreds of tickets are not given free to local kids' sports clubs and schools, or even local businesses...

It is always clear by Monday morning how sales are tracking so nothing to lose...

And the 300 or so seats behind the start line up to bend four, rarely get used to any degree every meeting...

Personally, I would close the South Stand and put everyone into the Grandstand to at least generate some atmosphere, charging the standing price of £25...

Fill the South Stand with huge sponsors banners, and maybe leave one section for those adamant they want to stand...

 

 

[mikebv]

5 hours ago, PhilTheAce said:

i do worry for my club this season though, the activity on my belle vue facebook page is down by more than double in interactions, im guessing a winter of delays have made people just give up on the sport

It clearly needs radical change Phil...

And has done for around two decades when the GP's and Poland started to impact it...

A contrived, Mickey Mouse operating model simply doesn't cut it in a 24/7 digital media age...

Winning either league carries almost zero prestige, publicity, or rewards...

With the Play Offs usually sorted by the end of May meaning dead rubber after dead rubber to September...

The inescapable fact is that the UK version of the sport can be perceived as no more than a hobby for many promoters and a money making exercise for the riders...

Hence doubling up is rife so costs can be shared and riders get what they want from two teams, and both those teams can then afford them...

And guesting is rife because (as one ex rider once told me), "It's the cherry on top of the icing on the cake. Kerching!"....

Covid should have seen root and branch change, yet they decided to carry on doing the same old nonsense that still exists today...

They need to sort it, and quick...

[RoundTheBoards]

35 minutes ago, TTT said:

If Lawson was turning up with lawnmowers and ended up going R, 1, 0, R then I could understand the backlash, But he's scored the amount of points that was predicted for him

Lawson did score 6...  but 4 of those points came from beating his team-mate.  (Nicholls 3 times, Edwards once).  

 In reality he scored 2 points.  One from one of his 2 meetings with Kildemand, and one from beating the 16-year-old RS.

Surely having Brennan and King paired together was a waste of the two best riders, when they both could have been winning races separately.

[YeOldPitGate]

29 minutes ago, mikebv said:

It clearly needs radical change Phil...

And has done for around two decades when the GP's and Poland started to impact it...

A contrived, Mickey Mouse operating model simply doesn't cut it in a 24/7 digital media age...

Winning either league carries almost zero prestige, publicity, or rewards...

With the Play Offs usually sorted by the end of May meaning dead rubber after dead rubber to September...

The inescapable fact is that the UK version of the sport can be perceived as no more than a hobby for many promoters and a money making exercise for the riders...

Hence doubling up is rife so costs can be shared and riders get what they want from two teams, and both those teams can then afford them...

And guesting is rife because (as one ex rider once told me), "It's the cherry on top of the icing on the cake. Kerching!"....

Covid should have seen root and branch change, yet they decided to carry on doing the same old nonsense that still exists today...

They need to sort it, and quick...

Spot on for me given the state of things if your never going to make it to the top table in the sport Lawson is an example of someone who has played the game like a finely tuned fiddle (this isn't a dig at him) he's got his own business which means he can fit work around matches, he can control the amount of non speedway work over spring/summer and turn it up over the winter months.

He signs for two of the best teams in both leagues and probably makes I'm totally guessing here 80-150k per annum from riding before expenses. The only thing he needs to be careful with is avoiding bad injury so it doesn't impact on his self employed plastering income hence another reason he's probably not bothered about the british final from a risk/reward point of view.

Be interested to hear from any ex riders on the estimate of his earnings if i'm miles off or not if anything my gut says i'm probably under estimating his earnings as would imagine the Ford's sort him out some decent sponsorship at Poole.

As I say no dig at Richard but it just shows how a rider not in the top 25 globally who sticks mainly to the UK can probably make a very good living if they have their head screwed on.

[TTT]

23 minutes ago, RoundTheBoards said:

Lawson did score 6...  but 4 of those points came from beating his team-mate.  (Nicholls 3 times, Edwards once).  

 In reality he scored 2 points.  One from one of his 2 meetings with Kildemand, and one from beating the 16-year-old RS.

Surely having Brennan and King paired together was a waste of the two best riders, when they both could have been winning races separately.

Agree, I said pre-meeting that Hurry made a massive error in pairing Lawson and Nicholls.

Nicholls should be @ No.2 every week imo.

[Marksman]

1 hour ago, TTT said:

Some people do depending on their trade of work lol.

If Lawson was turning up with lawnmowers and ended up going R, 1, 0, R then I could understand the backlash, But he's scored the amount of points that was predicted for him and the dirty bikes didn't have any impact on the result.

Lawson's dirty bikes aren't anything to worry about from a fan perspective but Hellstrom-Bangs form is, The Club can't afford to carry him when age has caught up with Scotty to a point where he's going to struggle to score anything around tracks that he'll have to ride at the business end of the season if Ipswich make the Top 4.....(Scotty's still a legend though)

JJ is primed and ready to go, can’t imagine it’ll be long before he gets a Premiership spot. Would be the best reserve in the league if he were to replace Hellstrom-Bangs.

A good hard rider who won’t shy away from a first bend tussle.

[IainB]

2 hours ago, SPEEDY69 said:

I don't think he turns up beaten before he starts - 30 wins out of 130ish rides there, suggests he was down on what he should get.  However he's never as good on a slick track and did have poor gate positions in his first two and then up against K&B in his third.  This is what makes a good team, covering for those having an off night.

Nicholls? The guy's a legend and it was so sad to see him a mile off the pace at the back, don't know if he's still feeling the effects of his shoulder (?) injury the season before last? But I personally I don't think turning up with the mindset of "I'm crap round here" helps. He's always excelled on the smaller tracks due to his technical ability never so much on the larger "throttle jockey" tracks, maybe why he never really made it in Poland or the GP series.

[Aries]

26 minutes ago, IainB said:

Nicholls? The guy's a legend and it was so sad to see him a mile off the pace at the back, don't know if he's still feeling the effects of his shoulder (?) injury the season before last? But I personally I don't think turning up with the mindset of "I'm crap round here" helps. He's always excelled on the smaller tracks due to his technical ability never so much on the larger "throttle jockey" tracks, maybe why he never really made it in Poland or the GP series.

I said earlier on in the thread that Nicholls probably wouldn’t score a point and was called out for being negative. But I’m afraid it was pretty obvious. It will be a similar scenario at Sheffield unfortunately.