1970's or 2020's?

[Hamish McRaker]

I've put this onto the Premiership section because i've given up trying to get my tech to get into a general speedway discussions area! It applies to Championship level as well.

In the 1970's there were riders galore with averages over 9 points. Plenty over 10 and a small but significant contingent over 11.

Maximums or nearly by Mauger, Olsen, Crump, Collins, Lee, Louis, Simmons etc were commonplace. Ah, those were the days! Or were they??

Today, more or less anybody can and does beat the "top dogs". No more dominance, at least at the Mauger and Olsen level. I'm sure the race format and gate position changes will have played a big part in this.

So what's better? Domination by an elite group or riders, or greater unpredictability?

[RoundTheBoards]

22 minutes ago, Hamish McRaker said:

I've put this onto the Premiership section because i've given up trying to get my tech to get into a general speedway discussions area! It applies to Championship level as well.

In the 1970's there were riders galore with averages over 9 points. Plenty over 10 and a small but significant contingent over 11.

Maximums or nearly by Mauger, Olsen, Crump, Collins, Lee, Louis, Simmons etc were commonplace. Ah, those were the days! Or were they??

Today, more or less anybody can and does beat the "top dogs". No more dominance, at least at the Mauger and Olsen level. I'm sure the race format and gate position changes will have played a big part in this.

So what's better? Domination by an elite group or riders, or greater unpredictability?

Back in those days, bonus points were included in the Green Sheet Averages.   This made a huge difference to averages.  (remember there are on average 10 extra bonus points in a 15 heat match).

Also then, matches were 13 heats so the top riders likely met only once in a meeting.  Nowadays with 15 heats including a nominated, top riders will meet at least twice.  And with the 4 top riders all meeting in heat 15, someone is going to finish with a zero and take a big dent on their average.   In the 70s, a top rider would go into every race with a reasonable expectataion of finishing second at worst.

Also back then, leagues had 16 - 18 teams.  They met only once all year.  Nowadays with fewer teams and fewer riders, teams meet more often, so top riders clash more often. 

If was also quite common to turn up on a Saturday night in the 70s to find Peter Collins isn't riding tonight or Ivan Mauger isn't riding, because they had a lucrative Grasstrack meeting in Germany on Sunday afternoon.    So riders might even miss their only league head-to-head of the entire season.  (with no internet. no one knew they were missing until they'd paid their money, and no one seemed bothered).

With just one bike strapped to the back of a car, no lower end rider had the equipment to challenge a top rider who may have a workshop at the track.

If you want closer racing with a more level playing field, and riders meeting more often, then the current day is for you.

If you want a few top stars for publicity purposes with the top stars artificially inflated to appear more dominant than they are, then the 70s are for you.

 

 

[cowboy cookie returns?]

No idea the 70s were before my time.

To be honest dispite the likes of Rickardsson, Gollob & more recently Doyle & Emil my favourite era at Ipswich was 89/90 in the National League.

Plenty of teams & characters the sport just seemed more fun. Even though my all time favourite is the Cowboy.

[RoundTheBoards]

Just now, cowboy cookie returns? said:

No idea the 70s were before my time.

To be honest dispite the likes of Rickardsson, Gollob & more recently Doyle & Emil my favourite era at Ipswich was 89/90 in the National League.

Plenty of teams & characters the sport just seemed more fun. Even though my all time favourite is the Cowboy.

My favourite era was the 70s.   Crowds were big and the atmosphere due to the big crowds was incredible, even for run-of-the-mill, very ordinary, bottom of the table matches.

The racing is far better now than in was then.  But today's racing in front of 800 people just can't match the atmosphere of a league meeting in front of 8,000.

[Whitelinehugger]

8 minutes ago, RoundTheBoards said:

My favourite era was the 70s.   Crowds were big and the atmosphere due to the big crowds was incredible, even for run-of-the-mill, very ordinary, bottom of the table matches.

The racing is far better now than in was then.  But today's racing in front of 800 people just can't match the atmosphere of a league meeting in front of 8,000.

Poland are experiencing crowds and fun times like we did in that period

[The White Knight]

3 hours ago, Hamish McRaker said:

I've put this onto the Premiership section because i've given up trying to get my tech to get into a general speedway discussions area! It applies to Championship level as well.

In the 1970's there were riders galore with averages over 9 points. Plenty over 10 and a small but significant contingent over 11.

Maximums or nearly by Mauger, Olsen, Crump, Collins, Lee, Louis, Simmons etc were commonplace. Ah, those were the days! Or were they??

Today, more or less anybody can and does beat the "top dogs". No more dominance, at least at the Mauger and Olsen level. I'm sure the race format and gate position changes will have played a big part in this.

So what's better? Domination by an elite group or riders, or greater unpredictability?

I would take the 70's every time.

Atmosphere, Characters (where are they now), Upright Engines (not the rocket bikes they have now), no Grand Prix (where is that going, I wonder?) Second Halves, where we saw a lot of the future young stars coming through (Gone).

Who is there today, British Riders, who can compare to Simmons, Collins, Jessop, Louis and Lee.

The Sport had twice the Entertainment/Excitement than it does nowadays.

I sincerely hope that Speedway in this Country can resurrect itself in to the Magnificent Sport that it used to be

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

No fixed gate positions in the 70s either and the top boys often pulled rank to get the best ones further cementing their dominance

[ouch]

It was still very raw back in the 70’s with only Ivan getting scientific about things. Even top lads would stick a bike on the bike of a Citroen with bits on the back seat. You could chat away for ages with your hero’s and a big crowd made even the most mundane meeting an event. I do believe that with the difference in remuneration top riders will “coast” if they don’t make the gate on our notoriously gate’n’go circuits. Exception to this is Dan who just loves to ride his bike and goes for it all the time, showing it can be done with a little desire and application. Back in the 70’s the big bucks were here and you would get an almighty bollocking if you were to coast, much like Poland now. The fact there are no characters can make for a bland evening and of course nostalgia colours our recollection of events from 50+ years ago when (generally) we were all in a happier place. PC was my hero and I can still get tongue tied when chatting with him now whereas Dan is a mate but still provides the level of excitement in me that PC did all those years ago. The on track action can be as good if not better than back then but off track it’s lacking somewhat. 

[mikebv]

70's racing was no better, nor worse than today's, for me..

What made it stand out was the crowd sizes thus, the atmosphere got created that made you return..

BV's Yorkshire rivals would bring a good few coaches with them ran by their supporters clubs, whiich had several thousand members, meaning an "electric atmosphere"...

Almost 20 teams in the league meant there actually looked line something worth winning, and the vast majority of riders were yours and no one elses, (apart from young UK lads being allowed to double up for development, rather than due to a lack of riders, or tier two clubs wanting to use tier one riders at a reduced rate)..

Teams rode on their best nights for attendances, and the admission costs took up a far lower percentage of your disposable income after your bills are paid, than it does today..

And Guests were the exception, rather than the rule...

The Superstars were on TV most Saturdays, and also crossed over into mainstream non sporting programming...

The top lads rode massive averages, making them "box office" particularly away from home when you may only got to see them once...

Their averages often being down to them picking the best gates, bonus points being included, a "gimme" tac sub ride against the weakest second string and reserve, and less "head to heads" than today against the oppositions top two, and, usually, especially at home, just four rides....

It was though, overall, the size of crowds that brought the atmosphere and made it "an event"...

The promoters of today though still have thousands of "lapsed fans" who still closely follow the sport, but see no reason to attend UK League Speedway...

A huge opportunity should the promoters ever one day decide to get these thousands of fans re-engaged with their version of the sport...

[RoundTheBoards]

19 hours ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

No fixed gate positions in the 70s either and the top boys often pulled rank to get the best ones further cementing their dominance

A good point that I missed in my summary of why 70s top riders had higher averages.

You hear stories of so-and-so being a top rider and always letting his junior partner have gate choice.  Those were a rarity (if they existed at all).  99% of the time, the top rider had the best gate.  And with no need to sit still at the starts, the referee would often allow the superstar to get a flyer.

[The White Knight]

I don't want to get controversial - but I will.

I think a big part of Speedway's problems started with the Laydown Engines, and the 4-Valve bikes used in the 70's. It started the free for all with the Engine Tuners. Spiralling costs due to Engine Tuning etc. contributed to increasing the price at the gate, thus taking the Sport out of reach of very many people. Costs became prohibitive crowds grew smaller and smaller. This is where we find ourselves now.

There is no doubt in my mind that the old 2-Valve was cheaper to run, safer for the riders, and no real advancement has been shown on the Track. The 2-Valve may have been fractions slower but, what we gained in speed, we also gained in injuries. Tracks built for Speedway nowadays can't cope with the the new 'rocket ships' that riders are using at the moment, hence the big increase in injuries.

Tracks haven't changed much since 1928 - but the bikes have. THAT to me is a problem also.

I don't believe that the GP System has done British Speedway any good either. Personally, I much preferred the old 'one off' World Final.

[Racin Jason 72]

23 hours ago, cowboy cookie returns? said:

No idea the 70s were before my time.

To be honest dispite the likes of Rickardsson, Gollob & more recently Doyle & Emil my favourite era at Ipswich was 89/90 in the National League.

Plenty of teams & characters the sport just seemed more fun. Even though my all time favourite is the Cowboy.

My favourite season was 1990 too. Chris Louis Alan mogridge dean standing Shane parker and David Norris provided brilliant entertainment home and away. Young hungry riders going places.  Although Dean standing didn’t fulfill his promise he was an incredibly stylish rider who should and could have had a long career in the sport. 

[mikebv]

6 minutes ago, The White Knight said:

I don't want to get controversial - but I will.

I think a big part of Speedway's problems started with the Laydown Engines, and the 4-Valve bikes used in the 70's. It started the free for all with the Engine Tuners. Spiralling costs due to Engine Tuning etc. contributed to increasing the price at the gate, thus taking the Sport out of reach of very many people. Costs became prohibitive crowds grew smaller and smaller. This is where we find ourselves now.

There is no doubt in my mind that the old 2-Valve was cheaper to run, safer for the riders, and no real advancement has been shown on the Track. The 2-Valve may have been fractions slower but, what we gained in speed, we also gained in injuries. Tracks built for Speedway nowadays can't cope with the the new 'rocket ships' that riders are using at the moment, hence the big increase in injuries.

Tracks haven't changed much since 1928 - but the bikes have. THAT to me is a problem also.

I don't believe that the GP System has done British Speedway any good either. Personally, I much preferred the old 'one off' World Final.

All fair points, however....

The ultimate issue over the last two decades in particular has been the lack of a joined up development plan for UK riders...

That has resulted in almost 200 guests being used per season, restricted race nights so riders can double up, resulting in contrived competitions with little credibility, and with hardly any rewards...

To unpick all the self inflicted issues, and gain back all those fans who have left the sport behind is, I would say, sadly beyond achievable now...

Even if those running the sport over here had the skill set to do it...