CHAMPIONSHIP PLAY OFF FINAL - SCUNTHORPE v POOLE v SCUNTHORPE (2 & 7 October)

[Grachan]

7 minutes ago, lucifer sam said:

The word "completely" does not appear in the rule - you're adding it.  

As for your lack of wanting to comment on the blatant tyre warming before Heat 8 at Scunthorpe, it's very telling. 

I'm not adding it - I'm using it to help you understand what crossing a white line means.

I have no comment on any tyre warming for the simple reason that I have no idea what that is all about. I never watched either match. I just looked at the photo on the Scunthorpe website after reading the comments here.

Let's see if Google can help.

Ooh, look at that! Same analogy as me. Same word - "completely" - as me. And they are not even Poole fans. And neither am I.

[lucifer sam]

11 minutes ago, Grachan said:

I'm not adding it - I'm using it to help you understand what crossing a white line means.

Be as condescending as you like, but you're just digging yourself in deeper - the rule doesn't even mention crossing a white line.

And it's not football.

I don't know what else to say when you're being so deliberately obtuse.

Watch the tyre warming and tell me it didn't happen.

Edited 3 hours ago by lucifer sam

[Grachan]

8 minutes ago, lucifer sam said:

Be as condescending as you like, but you're just digging yourself in deeper - the rule doesn't even mention crossing a white line.

And it's not football.

I don't know what else to say when you're being so deliberately obtuse.

Watch the tyre warming and tell me it didn't happen.

Clearly I'm not the only one who thinks it.

This is from Wikipedia Motorcycle speedway - Wikipedia

"Track boundaries are marked by white lines or barriers on the inside and outside the track, any rider who crosses this boundary with both wheels will be disqualified..."

[LisaColette]

11 minutes ago, lucifer sam said:

Be as condescending as you like, but you're just digging yourself in deeper - the rule doesn't even mention crossing a white line.

And it's not football.

I don't know what else to say when you're being so deliberately obtuse.

Watch the tyre warming and tell me it didn't happen.

Sorry but you are wrong...

It says fully cross so @Grachan is correct!

Edited 3 hours ago by LisaColette

[Paul Johnson]

also from google....

The Speedway Control Bureau (SCB) Regulations define the "white line" itself as the official boundary of the infield. [1]

The rule book phrases it with strict technical phrasing under two specific rules that work together:

1. The Infield Line Definition (Rule 05.1.4a): It states there must be "a continuous line to define the inner edge of the track circuit." The SCB formally interprets this white painted line as being part of the infield itself, meaning the precise "inner edge" of the racing track is exactly where the dirt track meets the outer edge of the white paint. [1]
2. The Point of Disqualification (Rule 012.1.11): Because the white line counts as the infield, the regulations do not require a tyre to cross 100% over the line to be in breach. The rule strictly penalizes "a rider whose machine crosses the inner edge of the track with 2 wheels." [1, 2]

In practice during a referee review, if any part of the tyre tread simply touches the painted surface of the white line, that wheel is legally deemed to have left the track. If both tyres touch or cross onto that white paint during a corner, it triggers an immediate red light disqualification, unless the safety or crowding exemptions apply. [1, 2]

 

[lucifer sam]

34 minutes ago, Grachan said:

Clearly I'm not the only one who thinks it.

This is from Wikipedia Motorcycle speedway - Wikipedia

"Track boundaries are marked by white lines or barriers on the inside and outside the track, any rider who crosses this boundary with both wheels will be disqualified..."

There was me thinking we had a speedway rulebook, rather than AI, Google or Wikipedia (none of which are known for their accuracy).

If you don't want to listen to me, fair enough. But I suggest that you do listen to David Howe - a former rider and current team manager - who might understand a bit more about track limits and when and where they are exceeded.

And just to clarify, since I realise you haven't even bothered to watch the video, the screenshot on the Scunny website shows the clearest image. The back wheel goes further onto the centre green in the following frames, but they're not as clean an image. I really would recommend watching the slo-mo video from the rear angle instead.  It's on BSN, when they are interviewing Josh Pickering.

I would also recommend watching Heat 8 from the first leg and the blatant tyre warming. Without that, the tie would have never gone to a Super Heat in the first place.

Edited 2 hours ago by lucifer sam

[Sir Sidney]

1 hour ago, lucifer sam said:

The moment you mentioned football and tennis, you showed you don't understand. Different sports have different rules.  The speedway rule does not mention completely crossing.

Although in this case, Cook did completely cross it. Watch it in slow motion. And then try to explain why that dirt and muck is thrown up by the back wheel when it hits something that isn't shale if wasn't over the white line. But, in any case, that's irrelevant since the wheel doesn't have to completely cross, if you actually bother to read the rule.

Of course, its position in the tie means the Super Heat is going to grab most of the attention. Although the tyre warming in Heat 8 at Scunthorpe is more blatant. I don't think anyone could argue that one at all. That's the one which was blatant cheating. 

The reality is that because the regulations do not define crossing, then your interpretation is no more valid than anyone elses. 

Using your interpretation then surely the part of the wheel closest to the engine 'crossed' the line first, but obviously didn't touch the line. 

As the reg doesn't mention touching, then it could mean any part or all.

As is often the case, the speedway regulation is open to interpretation and needs to be re-written

[ASpeedwayfan]

Can’t believe this is still a topic. With all the evidence we’ve seen the ref could not be certain Zach has crossed the line, there’s no picture from the right angle that shows both tires definitively off the track. 
Yes Will should’ve been excluded in the first leg, but then if we are playing that game then I’ll argue that Ingram should’ve been excluded for riding through Lightcap and causing him to either have a dangerous crash or to shut off/ get out the way completely. 
 

This is comfortably the worst season of refereeing, feels like in at least every other meeting there’s a decision made that is simply wrong. 

[Youhave2minutes]

2 hours ago, Trackrat said:

My general question is: Why is it always Poole at the centre of any cheating? Surely enough is enough now or are the rule makers being swayed by something??

Don’t be silly.

[Youhave2minutes]

On 10/8/2026 at 10:59 PM, beardybum said:

To be honest as a Glasgow fan I don't have a dog in the race. Yes  maybe he was over the line but from every replay the ref saw last night there is no way he could say 100 percent.......so he can't exclude him.

Official needs to stand on every bend

[Arthur54]

1 hour ago, lucifer sam said:

There was me thinking we had a speedway rulebook, rather than AI, Google or Wikipedia (none of which are known for their accuracy).

If you don't want to listen to me, fair enough. But I suggest that you do listen to David Howe - a former rider and current team manager - who might understand a bit more about track limits and when and where they are exceeded.

And just to clarify, since I realise you haven't even bothered to watch the video, the screenshot on the Scunny website shows the clearest image. The back wheel goes further onto the centre green in the following frames, but they're not as clean an image. I really would recommend watching the slo-mo video from the rear angle instead.  It's on BSN, when they are interviewing Josh Pickering.

I would also recommend watching Heat 8 from the first leg and the blatant tyre warming. Without that, the tie would have never gone to a Super Heat in the first place.

It's all ifs and buts, if Lewi Kerr hadn't got injured or Jacob Hook rode instead of Jordan Jenkins, there also wouldn't have been a super heat 

[ragdoll64]

1 hour ago, Paul Johnson said:

also from google....

The Speedway Control Bureau (SCB) Regulations define the "white line" itself as the official boundary of the infield. [1]

The rule book phrases it with strict technical phrasing under two specific rules that work together:

1. The Infield Line Definition (Rule 05.1.4a): It states there must be "a continuous line to define the inner edge of the track circuit." The SCB formally interprets this white painted line as being part of the infield itself, meaning the precise "inner edge" of the racing track is exactly where the dirt track meets the outer edge of the white paint. [1]
2. The Point of Disqualification (Rule 012.1.11): Because the white line counts as the infield, the regulations do not require a tyre to cross 100% over the line to be in breach. The rule strictly penalizes "a rider whose machine crosses the inner edge of the track with 2 wheels." [1, 2]

In practice during a referee review, if any part of the tyre tread simply touches the painted surface of the white line, that wheel is legally deemed to have left the track. If both tyres touch or cross onto that white paint during a corner, it triggers an immediate red light disqualification, unless the safety or crowding exemptions apply. [1, 2]

 

This to me, is the most sensible wording of the rule, stating that the OUTSIDE part of the white line is where the track begins, therefore if both wheels are either touching or over it then an infringement has occurred.

 

[Paul Johnson]

11 minutes ago, ragdoll64 said:

This to me, is the most sensible wording of the rule, stating that the OUTSIDE part of the white line is where the track begins, therefore if both wheels are either touching or over it then an infringement has occurred.

 

I think thats the point Davids making.

[Grachan]

2 hours ago, Paul Johnson said:

also from google....

The Speedway Control Bureau (SCB) Regulations define the "white line" itself as the official boundary of the infield. [1]

The rule book phrases it with strict technical phrasing under two specific rules that work together:

1. The Infield Line Definition (Rule 05.1.4a): It states there must be "a continuous line to define the inner edge of the track circuit." The SCB formally interprets this white painted line as being part of the infield itself, meaning the precise "inner edge" of the racing track is exactly where the dirt track meets the outer edge of the white paint. [1]
2. The Point of Disqualification (Rule 012.1.11): Because the white line counts as the infield, the regulations do not require a tyre to cross 100% over the line to be in breach. The rule strictly penalizes "a rider whose machine crosses the inner edge of the track with 2 wheels." [1, 2]

In practice during a referee review, if any part of the tyre tread simply touches the painted surface of the white line, that wheel is legally deemed to have left the track. If both tyres touch or cross onto that white paint during a corner, it triggers an immediate red light disqualification, unless the safety or crowding exemptions apply. [1, 2]

 

 

The rule book states nothing of the sort. The part about the inner edge of the white line being the infield is your own interprestation.

 

1 hour ago, lucifer sam said:

There was me thinking we had a speedway rulebook, rather than AI, Google or Wikipedia (none of which are known for their accuracy).

If you don't want to listen to me, fair enough. But I suggest that you do listen to David Howe - a former rider and current team manager - who might understand a bit more about track limits and when and where they are exceeded.

And just to clarify, since I realise you haven't even bothered to watch the video, the screenshot on the Scunny website shows the clearest image. The back wheel goes further onto the centre green in the following frames, but they're not as clean an image. I really would recommend watching the slo-mo video from the rear angle instead.  It's on BSN, when they are interviewing Josh Pickering.

I would also recommend watching Heat 8 from the first leg and the blatant tyre warming. Without that, the tie would have never gone to a Super Heat in the first place.

I never said Wikipedia was accurate. I said that I'm not the only one who thinks it - as Wikipedia is not necessarily proof. I chose my wording deliberately with that in mind.

I've watched the video now. It's been posted on this thread. It changes nothing.

2 hours ago, LisaColette said:

Sorry but you are wrong...

It says fully cross so @Grachan is correct!

 

This post states it clearly. In case you need a link, here it is.

SGP - FIM Speedway - Rules

• If a rider crosses the white inside line fully with both wheels or leaves the circuit, they are adjudged to have retired from the race – unless they left the track to take essential avoiding action (e.g. to avoid a fallen rider).

Or are you all going to say that FIM rules are different? In which case, I give up!!

Now, who's got a link to the cheating Pirates and their tyre warming?

[Rickyag]

I am not a supporter of Poole or Scunthorpe however, as a former level 4 football referee we were trained for when the ball was in/out of play and not to guess. Below is the law on ball in ball out.