Brandon Update

[SPEEDY69 1,260]

Surely viability is a question solely for those who are running or wish to run a club.  If it wasn't, they'd soon disappear.  Neither Poole or Swindon have done because of viability so why is it important if the crowd figure is 10k, 1k or 1, in terms of viability?  

[Skidder1 7,637]

3 hours ago, SPEEDY69 said:

Surely viability is a question solely for those who are running or wish to run a club.  If it wasn't, they'd soon disappear.  Neither Poole or Swindon have done because of viability so why is it important if the crowd figure is 10k, 1k or 1, in terms of viability?  

Viability is still relevant to the BE case as they would still own the site and expect a 'healthy' rental from any users.

Edited October 5, 2023 by Skidder1

[marko 956]

If Brandon Estates are happy to sit on the land for years to come hoping that a change of mind might happen that that will be that.

The council can’t make them sell the land, but whether legally possible, could they pass a motion that the land is to be retained for the exclusive use of sport for the next 10, 20, 30 years?
Brandon estates might then sell the land  if they know there is no realistic chance they will ever be able to do anything with it? It’s not like there is a lack of space to build elsewhere in the country, plenty of brown field sites are going that way.

[SPEEDY69 1,260]

41 minutes ago, Skidder1 said:

Viability is still relevant to the BE case as they would still own the site and expect a 'healthy' rental from any users.

But no-oe is suggesting they won't get the rental. If the prospective promoters are happy to pay it I still don't see what crowd sizes at other tracks matter to this hearing. Have BE stated what rent they'd expect? 

[Skidder1 7,637]

1 hour ago, SPEEDY69 said:

But no-oe is suggesting they won't get the rental. If the prospective promoters are happy to pay it I still don't see what crowd sizes at other tracks matter to this hearing. Have BE stated what rent they'd expect? 

BE will set the rent at whatever level they wish - maybe just to be bloody-minded if they lose the appeal.  I think Osborne said Poole's rent was currently £2.5k per meeting which is just for one sport at the stadium.

[SPEEDY69 1,260]

1 hour ago, Skidder1 said:

BE will set the rent at whatever level they wish - maybe just to be bloody-minded if they lose the appeal.  I think Osborne said Poole's rent was currently £2.5k per meeting which is just for one sport at the stadium.

And Matt Ford said no problem to that and to whatever the stock car man might want, so all the talk about numbers at Swindon seems totally irrelevant. 

[Triple.H. 1,986]

A stadium owner much like the owner if any venue cannot say the sport etc is unviable.

The owner sets a rent as long as they get paid the rent the sport is viable.

If I as a violinist, (which I'm not) wished to hire the Royal Albert Hall out for one day a week between March and October to rehearse, paying whatever the owners deem a reasonable price

 Would they turn me down if a CEO said that was an unviable arrangement 

[Deano 1,318]

11 hours ago, Triple.H. said:

A stadium owner much like the owner if any venue cannot say the sport etc is unviable.

The owner sets a rent as long as they get paid the rent the sport is viable.

If I as a violinist, (which I'm not) wished to hire the Royal Albert Hall out for one day a week between March and October to rehearse, paying whatever the owners deem a reasonable price

 Would they turn me down if a CEO said that was an unviable arrangement 

I guess the only way they would, is if they didn’t think they’d get there money. If I owed the Albert Hall and thought it were a risk, I’d ask for a large proportion up front, or some kind of guarantee.  But if speedway has been there x years and has a proven return by a reliable promotion, then there shouldn’t be any issues.
 

[The Dog 413]

On 10/5/2023 at 6:32 PM, Skidder1 said:

BE will set the rent at whatever level they wish - maybe just to be bloody-minded if they lose the appeal.  I think Osborne said Poole's rent was currently £2.5k per meeting which is just for one sport at the stadium.

I think your right, BE could make the rent so ridiculously high that it does make sport there unviable, but hopefully, that would only happen if they manage to put the stadium back to how they found it on the night motorsports ended, and we all know that they won't do that 

[1 valve 558]

On 10/5/2023 at 4:41 PM, marko said:

The council can’t make them sell the land, but whether legally possible, could they pass a motion that the land is to be retained for the exclusive use of sport for the next 10, 20, 30 years?
 

Short answer is "no". 
The council can insist that the land is maintained in a safe and secure manner. That's about it. 

[1 valve 558]

On 10/5/2023 at 4:13 PM, Skidder1 said:

Viability is still relevant to the BE case as they would still own the site and expect a 'healthy' rental from any users.

BE are not be remotely interested in renting the site for speedway or stox. Because,
1, In doing so it disproves their case,
2, It would mean a delay to any new build housing as rental leases would take precedent.
3, They don't need the cash and increases in land values over time guarantees them a secure return on their investment as they are in it for the long haul as per all developers.
The only way BE will give upon Brandon is if this phase of planning is rejected beyond a reasonable compromise being possible and somebody makes them a very decent cash offer for them to move away from their current thinking and trajectory. and developers do not like acquiring land only to have to give it up. 

Edited October 10, 2023 by 1 valve

[Fromafar 10,363]

2 hours ago, 1 valve said:

BE are not be remotely interested in renting the site for speedway or stox. Because,
1, In doing so it disproves their case,
2, It would mean a delay to any new build housing as rental leases would take precedent.
3, They don't need the cash and increases in land values over time guarantees them a secure return on their investment as they are in it for the long haul as per all developers.
The only way BE will give upon Brandon is if this phase of planning is rejected beyond a reasonable compromise being possible and somebody makes them a very decent cash offer for them to move away from their current thinking and trajectory. and developers do not like acquiring land only to have to give it up. 

Like you say they will just sit on it. Doing anything else weaken their case.

[old bob at herne bay 828]

On 10/10/2023 at 5:01 PM, Fromafar said:

Like you say they will just sit on it. Doing anything else weaken their case.

Sadly that's the most likely outcome IMO . Whatever  happens to BE at this hearing , they cannot be forced to sell THEIR land and why would they want to consider renting THEIR land to anyone ? ?

[Skidder1 7,637]

Inquiry adjourned further by 3 weeks to 27/28 November.

[steve roberts 9,246]

I've just laid my hands on the "Speedway Star" edition where Clarke Osbourne was interviewed. He quotes that speedway is no longer viable which may or may not be the case but Osbourne is/was only interested in selling off assets to make money otherwise why did he sell Cowley Stadium back in the middle seventies when crowds were good at Oxford and speedway was generally thriving? Personally his views don't wash with me knowing his past history and involvement with speedway stadia down the years.