Leaderboard

There was a classic example this season of how things need to change and it answers a couple of points too Oxford run a team in the championship with no tv money from TNT and break even, they run a team in the premier with TNT money and owe £1000s, same track one team is sustainable one isn’t, the one with the lesser riders got marginally bettter support, dispelling the point about the star riders needed, the lessen is all there to see, will the bspl see it ? No they have superheats and points limits to discuss

Couldn’t care less what Harris or king or any rider thinks he needs, this is about the future of speedway, its currently is broke, can’t pay its debts off and if it carry’s on the same path Harris and the rest will have to get a job in B&M or Asda let alone have to reduce their income,it’s a tough old world out there and it’s time the riders started to feel it

Interesting how so many Premiership team fans on here are convinced that if it went to one league, the Premiership teams would royally screw the Championship teams by hoovering up all the top riders and leaving the dregs for the Championship teams. And they wonder why no-one wants to join their failing league! The 9 Championship teams this year agreed to share out league strength by having only 1 rider over 8 points. This was to ensure that all teams had done strength after last seasons disparity. In one league of 14 teams, why would 9 teams vote to allow 5 teams to screw them over? Just to clarify, as I question the intelligence of some, 9 is bigger than 5. For 2 years the 5 "big" teams screwed the Spires and Brummies, and no longer have them in the league. The Championship promoters chose not to go down that route. Yes Poole, Glasgow and Redcar will be relatively weaker next season, but they chose the intelligent option of making sure that the didn't kill off the 'weaker' teams. If Chris Louis is the messiah like promoter some are holding him up to be, why didn't he and his cronies take their foot off the throat of Oxford and Birmingham before they killed them off? (Yes I know Brummies lost their track but for all the plans to keep the Premiership going, not one has been keep the Brummies going at another venue as the promoter walked away from the Premiership and the fans didn't support an obviously canon fodder team). IF the Premiership fails and joins the Championship, to make it one league, then the points limit and team building rules would be set at a level where the Premiership teams could not do that to the Championship teams because the bullying majority would be the minority.

This one? Something about not definitely yes but not a definite no. Sounds like they are looking into it. Interesting to hear that their crowds are the same whether it's championship or premiership.

You really are deluded. Bomber would always choose Glasgow first and as for finances,the Facennas have spent millions on Glasgow speedway, totally renovated the stadium, they sponsor team GB and other areas of speedway, they are planning another stand and hope to be able to get a GP at Glasgow. We have a young crowd with hundreds of kids each meeting. Yes we have the facilities for premiership speedway but will not change from a Friday night. We are now starting to make money which will be ploughed back into the club.

No there does not, if the so called top league folds then the what does the other league become ?., think back to the early 60's the National League became untenable which left the Provincial League that then became THE British League with National league teams joining, the difference between now and then is solely the number of riders or should i say where the riders come from, take away the Aussies and we would struggle to have the 2 leagues we have had for the last few years. I believe Speedway in the UK has to take a step back before it can step forwards, at the very minimum NO doubling up/down which in itself will be a step forward, Poole are an example of NOT riding in the so called top league on a night the fans want to watch, somehow a way has to be found and struggling to maintain the status quo is not it.

No there doesn’t have to be a top league, fans want variety, something different, the arrogance of the top 5 teams says there needs to be a top league and it could be argued that arrogance is the reason the sport is in such a mess that it finds itself in

Well argued 😂

The British under 21 final. Ended up 3rd, but very nearly won the final. Tigers finished top of the league last year. They were 1 point or 1 ride away from winning the Playoff finals. They went out the BSN Trophy on countback, so didn't do that badly last year. Cami was manager when they won the playoffs in 2023

Didn't he double up for Leicester and Plymouth?

Six teams? Five teams? Four teams? Won't make much difference will it? If they go with six teams, as soon as the riders are confirmed on here, the two missing out on the play offs will be as clear as day for all to see... Just like every season... The top tier in its current guise simply doesn't work due to the lack of riders of the level required, and the money those who are top level, and ride over here, take out of fhe sport. . Ultimately, doing the sport no favours.. I would suggest £20 to sit, and £15 to stand, is the sweet spot for Speedway in the UK... Away fans in for a tenner max, and free if travelling over 50 miles... Start from that and build your cost budgets around it accordingly... And get as many teams in one league as is possible to bring some variety...

Let's consider the situation logically. Why have no premiership clubs signed any riders? The answer is simple Why be a sacrificial lamb when the numbers don't add up! They don't want one league but I'm afraid it's hobsons choice.

Doesn't matter. With Cammy as team manager you could name Bewley, Kurtz, Lindgren, Zmarzlik, Doyle, Kubera and Holder and they will win as much silverware as the Tigers won last year - none.

Having a long chat with a former promoter yesterday at the speedway show, something he said made me laugh but his point was valid, he was saying speedway had changed and not for the better and he said it used to be after a meeting around midnight he would get the stadium manager calling him saying can you come and get your star rider out of the bar I want to close up and go home, his point was when that stopped speedway changed lol

To be fair Iain, I’ve argued against it to death on here to the point I can’t be bothered with it anymore. I’ll bow out of this one now and let you lot crack on with your doomsday scenarios. I’m not in denial because there’s clearly issues here, but let’s wait for the AGM when issues will hopefully be resolved.

Would you rather I used pictures next time? And 5 clubs telling 9 clubs we're are all having a league with only 8 teams and only on the nights we want you to ride and we're having 5 of the 8 spots is the same staggering arrogance that caused your Premiership to get to the brink of failure in the first place

After a few chats over the last few days I really hope now that the premier league fails and all 5 teams and Peterborough if they run have no choice but to join the championship and as much as they will kick and scream maybe after a year of it they will think well actually it’s pretty good and a bit more sustainable than the premier league, it’s been mentioned before on here but a betting deal could be the premier’s saviour

You've completely missed the point. (perhaps you haven't been following the thread from the start?) No one is suggesting Doris and Bob should be ignored. No one is saying they shouldn't be catered for. They are absolutely an important part of our speedway family. As important as any other fan. Maybe more so - they've been there through thick and thin. And no one has knocked today's Collectors Fair. Everyone seems to agree it's a great product and they have praised the fans who organised it. It's a great way for super-fans to pick up old programmes and memorabilia, and see old bike, old leathers and wallow in brilliant nostalgia with like-minded friends. A great day out for fans. What we've been reacting to, is a crazy suggestion that all 2026 club promoters should be there because it's a chance to market the sport to new fans. Of course this is nonsense, and this is what we are all disagreeing with. This collectors fair provides a great day of nostalgia for diehard existing fans (Doris and Bob). But young Oliver and Amelia are at home playing on their smartphones. They were born in 2015, so they are not interested in a show of oily old 1960s bikes. They've never heard of speedway. And 30-year-old Tarquin and Jennifer, who run their successful dot.com business, (who could be a potential speedway sponsors of the future), are not wandering round a village hall collectors fair on a saturday afternoon either. In short, there are no ordinary members of the public, potential new supporters, for promoters to market to. It would be a completely pointless waste of a day for Chris Louis, or Matt Ford, or Gerry Facenna to be there at a collectors fair, selling the sport to Doris and Bob, who have been there and bought the t-shirt many years before Tarquin and Jennifer were born. That's what we are disagreeing with - The suggestion that current promoters should be forced into wasting their time at a collectors fair when there are far more important issues they need to be addressing.

Full series here.

They were filming for King Cinder when Teesside Tigers visited Hoddesdon. 22nd May 1977. During the 2nd half. Us Tigers fans. Were asked by the Production Company. To wave "Barton Barons" banners. Happy memories.

I’ve never said I’m right, I know some especially on here are sometimes way off the mark because I MAY know the facts but I don’t need to correct them, it’s a forum, it’s opinions, nobody is right or wrong, promoters are in the main decent folk with the odd exception, I read all posts and look to what people are saying and at the end of the day my opinion is a valuable or useless as yours even without quoting someone to get your point over

Jesus H Christ. See you in January ffs 🙄

Slightly pains me to admit how slow I've been to finally realise that TTT is the greatest wind-up merchant on the forum to keep this post going so actively is amazing,driving a losing argument for days is outstanding, well done.It also pains me to admit you've outgunned our own wind-up champion Mr shovvy

No offence but you support Glasgow......The team that signs 4 Heat Leaders every year. Glasgow do the exact same thing to CHAMP Teams what PREM Teams do when it comes to the Oxford Spires and Birmingham Brummies. I'm all for a One Rider Over 8.00 Rule being introduced into the PREM to level out the playing field.

I think Aston Martin is in a worse state than speedway at the moment too. Although the guy behind it still has a few bob!

Matt will be on it I’m sure.

Rather than asking what is there to gain for clubs attending this, maybe they should be asking what is there to lose? At the very least you would think that the costs should pretty much be covered by sales of merchandise. Hand out some free/discounted tickets for next season. Your track might be miles away but we're heading into the time of year where people will be travelling to see family, maybe they have relatives close by who haven't attended before. They might have a friend at work who holidays in that area every summer. And who knows, maybe there's a potential sponsor there or someone who could introduce you to one?

Riders are NOT EMPLOYEES FOR TAX PURPOSES. That does not mean they can't be employees for other purposes. Similar confusion over categorisation exists with aspects of Company and Employment law.

No, it isn’t.

Whilst I agree I'm afraid we are going to have to bite the bullet on this one otherwise British Speedway has no future. One league with rookies is the only way forward.

In the Haynes Motor Museum in Somerset, named after the guy who started the famous maintenace manuals, there used to be a 'speedway room', packed with speeedway exhibits. This would have been around 10 years or so back, infuriatingly I can't find my pics right now, but there were race bibs, bikes, pictures, a looping history video, etc. Don't appear to be there anymore on the website the website you need to download the map to view but it was situated in area named 'Motorcycle Mezzanine'. Yes, pretty much right at the back. https://www.haynesmuseum.org/the-museum/ Time was short so sadly we coudn't hang around, but the girl on reception was amazed when I asked "where the speedway was at ?" as, I didn't have a lot of time. Her eyes almost popped out of her head when I walked past 20mins later saying "that's all I came to see, must dash". I mean who wants to spend hours viewing IOM TT bikes, F1 cars, rally cars, a room full of Ferraris, etc after speedway anyway 😉. Well, I did actually, but oh well.....

Glass half full and all that, there is always a way if you really want something

I was using the term Asset stripped as a figure of speech tbh. Either way CHAMP Clubs will be left chasing shadows after the PREM Clubs sign whatever Heat Leaders they want.

Do you really think so? The riders who have “signed” for Championship clubs would soon be backing out of those deals quicker than a rat up a drainpipe. The fact is, those clubs that would be “dropping down” are more desirable clubs to ride for who more than likely could/would offer better deals. The first thing Ipswich would do for example, is take Scott Nicholls off Plymouth. Those deals aren’t worth the paper they’re written on. Pure delusion to think those riders would stay loyal to the Championship clubs they’ve already agreed to ride for, if they’re suddenly offered a better deal by one of the clubs currently in the Premiership. They’ll go where the money is and rightly so. 99% of riders have been dumped by clubs over their careers when they’ve hit a sticky patch, so none of them can cry foul when it’s their turn to be dumped. It works both ways.

Whilst I take your point, that the future is the way to go, I do not agree with your your premise regarding Doris and Bob. You need to think about ALL Speedway Supporters and that includes the elderly. There is a theory that you can learn from History. Perhaps you could look back to when Speedway really was popular, when good folk, young and old, flocked to Speedway Meetings for the noise, the excitement, the smell, the thrills, the spills and the entertainment. Look at those points I make now. How many apply today? Noise - Yes, Excitement - Yes, Smell - No, Thrills and Spills - Yes (too many of the latter, these days), Entertainment - No, not really. No second Half from where you grow your future riders. I would argue that Speedway, which purports to be a Sport, has lost it's way. The Grand Prix system, I believe, has degraded the Sport in this Country. It is too gimmicky. I just mention the laughably named - Last Qualifying Round/Race. Too many places are given to the top riders from the previous year - these riders are SELECTED from their efforts this year for the World Championship for next year. What is fair and equal about that? Then we come to the League - no the wonder Supporters drift away when their Team win the League, only to find they have to win another competition to win it AGAIN (Play Offs aka: an injustice) - not fair. If you want another competition - fine - but don't call it the League Championship, for that it isn't. They (the Promoters) have changed what used to be a great Sport that people used to attend enthusiastically, into fifteen races - and that's it. Bare minimum offered to Supporters. High prices to be paid, when money these days is extremely tight. Finally the riders themselves have lost touch with the Supporters. No going for a drink afterward as in the old days. All of these things add up. Well, I am off to get my flask and my blanket - it is cold this time of year. Much Love Doris and Bob.

I don’t think that’s true. They pick up two wages. It’s not a top up. If the Premiership teams are cast out into the cold then there won’t be a top league for those riders to ride in. It’ll be Championship or no job here. The Championship needing the Premiership and vice versa is a falsity. The Championship is in a stronger position.

I wasn’t on this week so not sure but I think it was episode 3 of 3, haven’t had chance to listen yet but we talked about it on our what’s app group in the week

It wasn't £6k per PL club per season... BSN would deliver more than that. I'm led to believe it was worth around £100k per PL club per season, whether anything went to CL or NDL I don't know. You'd have to assume that PL clubs didn't get everything.

I did think that having two "conferences" of 7 teams with strict points limits and limited doubling up, could be a solution. Then, after riding 12 matches, go to mini-leagues of 4, 5 and 5 teams to sort out a final league table and have division 1, 2 and 3 champions, and maybe also a grand final playoff between the top two. But then I realised the potential for chaos created by doubling up, in the second part of that cunning plan

Rest of league says 'no you won't if you want to join the league then the best riders need to be shared out'. If ANY Championship club wanted to get dumped on like that, then they would have stepped up to the Premiership! You've just shown exactly why your Premiership league has failed. A couple of clubs hoard all the top riders causing other clubs to fail. PS Ashfield is Harris' favourite UK track, and the owners are at least as wealthy as Buster. So not 100% guaranteed to go to KL. They didn't share out the top riders, the big 4 hoarded them all last year and KL signed 6 third heat leaders and made a decent go of it. Everyone could see that Oxford and Birmingham were going to, and did, get hammered repeatedly. If Birmingham had been in any way competitive then at least someone would suggest running that team from another track. They got hammered repeatedly and hardly anyone paid to watch it, so the big 5 killed them off. The 10th match between them last year was the best speedway match I've seen in the 40ish years I've been watching speedway. Admittedly helped by being a 2 leg knock out contest. At least there is a city rivalry there to promote the match. Glasgow v Ipswich 10 times would not have the same pull. (PS Masters v Harris at Ashfield is normally something to get excited about)

Don't you mean the 'British Premiership is on a downward slope'? The Championship seems to be doing ok with a lot of fight left in it, with clubs (even those in the lower half of the Championship) signing and announcing the likes of Pickering, Lawson, King, Nicholls and Harris. 2026 will undoubtedly by 2 senior leagues plus the NDL, with the Prem clubs having to make some major rider decisions in 2027 if the Poles bring in their new rule restricting where riders can ride.

Sounds very similar to Swindon. Only key difference is council own land the stadium is on. Fingers crossed can keep them on side.

That doesn’t make sense, with one league Glasgow would ride Edinburgh less times than they would now

It’s just the 25% reduction, they don’t get a further 2.5% off. See Toms average at the end of 2022 compared to his start in 2023. https://britishspeedway.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/p22_issue_final-1.pdf https://britishspeedway.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/p23_issue_1.pdf

There will be a top league, and there HAS to be a top league. Patience is required but progress is being made.

A suggestion i made on FB based on the prem scratching around for a side... Instead of Northampton riding at Oxford Why not enter a side called British Lions and have Vatcher as team manager? Home track? They can be a touring side and can ride at any venue that can accomodate a Monday/Thursday as a one off If British Speedway is too much of a commitment for Woffy and Lambert, allow them to share the no.1 spot Far from ideal but a fraction better than Northampton at Oxford to save the Prem Or.... Help another nation develope their Speedway? Allow one of the French teams or German sides into the Prem to boost the numbers After all alot of mentions of BSB being an example of how to run a series but they do go to Assen

I've never understood the concept of fining a council though. The money gets diverted away from providing services, and then they put up council tax to cover the shortfall. So the ones causing the problem suffer no more punishment than the average Joe Public (and less effectively if they live in a different council area). Some other, more direct form of punishment of the individuals should be available

Only "superstars" can have top quality races??? Look up Heat 14 from the Glasgow v Edinburgh playoff semi (British Speedway Network posted it on their Facebook page on 27th September) It was a fantastic race between Perry, MPT & Flint swapping places. Then contrast that with the dross that was GB v Poland at the same track which had Bewley, Woffinden, Zmarzlik and Janowski, 3 of the 4 riders that had just competed in whatever they call the World Pairs final these days, and next to no passing all night. It was one of the worst meetings ever at Ashfield. The only worse ones I can think of were ruined by rain. Glasgow fans are very happy with the entertainment on show at Ashfield every week. Star names do not mean better races. Glasgow fans want to race Fridays, and the promotion fought long and hard to get it. They also have the derbies with Edinburgh and Berwick and rivalry with Poole, and to a lesser extent Redcar and Workington. They also have a competitive team. And they run with (what the promotion deem to be) acceptable losses each year. All of which would be lost propping up the failing Premiership. The Facennas are working hard to build up the speedway at Glasgow but that move would not make any sense and could jeopardise the future of the Tigers.

Your wasted on speedway Forum Norm😂👍

Luke Harrison won’t be at Edinburgh fact