Warsaw GP Saturday May 13th 2023

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1 hour ago, Ghostwalker said:

Referee decision on Doyle vs Zmarzlik was definitely correct. Its hardly the first time Doyle tries a move like that and perhaps the referees hold him accountable for it. It was the same with Nicki Pedersen who were really hard on the others but was quick to play the victim when others were hard on him.

However I agree that the race should have been awarded to Jack.

So your saying Doyle was excluded for things he has done in the past.

Watched the incident back a few times and still come to the same conclusion, Zmarzlik knocked Doyle off, it clear and its simple. The referee bottled.

Edited May 14, 2023 by screm

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2 hours ago, Chrisdonnelly said:

Zmarslik seems to have become an untouchable force in the gps. Everyone is s@#&t scared to race him, the amount of room he was given to pass on the back straight was laughable. Imo he was never getting excluded in the final, Doyle could have stayed on but what would that have achieved….

Agree with you, how many times do we see Zmarzlik get a clear run down the back straight on the first lap, riders need to be moving over to block his run, though after knocking off Doyle last night Zmarzlik would likely call all kinds of mayhem.

[Aries]

9 hours ago, iainb said:

https://twitter.com/iainebrown/status/1657513075187101697?t=M9Lj1_4R7ReHhxzbYNz05w&s=19

Pretty comprehensive that. No surprise that those tiny minority in the “right call” camp have shown a previous dislike of Jason Doyle. Not that their judgment is in any way clouded of course! 

[IainB]

2 minutes ago, Aries said:

Pretty comprehensive that. No surprise that those tiny minority in the “right call” camp have shown a previous dislike of Jason Doyle. Not that their judgment is in any way clouded of course! 

Seems pretty clear cut doesn't it... though if I'd posted it in Polish the numbers may be different 

 

 

[CB252]

Yes, it's as conclusive as it gets, some bloke on twitter that hates Zmarzlik and has 22 followers has started a poll and got the answer he desired 

You lot are hilarious

It was a 50-50 call which Doyle rolled the dice on. Can't blame him as he might have won the re run had it gone his way.

[orion]

2 hours ago, Chrisdonnelly said:

Zmarslik seems to have become an untouchable force in the gps. Everyone is s@#&t scared to race him, the amount of room he was given to pass on the back straight was laughable. Imo he was never getting excluded in the final, Doyle could have stayed on but what would that have achieved….

Not sure about..that..in the re run Holder stuff him up and gave him zero room at all 

[Pinny]

Zmarzlik definitely at fault and the ref bottled it. Clear as day. 
 

Glad Holder slammed the door on him in the re run. 

[FAST GATER]

17 minutes ago, orion said:

Not sure about..that..in the re run Holder stuff him up and gave him zero room at all 

For all Holder's efforts  Bart still ended up about  300mm away from winning the final !

[FAST GATER]

3 minutes ago, Pinny said:

Zmarzlik definitely at fault and the ref bottled it. Clear as day. 
 

Glad Holder slammed the door on him in the re run. 

So Holder's robust action is to be admired but Bart 's is unacceptable !

[AFCB Wildcat]

This type of incident has been discussed many times and as usual people see it different ways.

For a long time, the falling rider getting the decision was the default decision by referees, so this is what people expect, but it seems now that the tide is turning a bit. 

For me, Doyle left Zmarzlik a gap coming off bend 2 that he was inevitably going to take and he was passed. While I agree with the comments saying that Doyle didn't lean in on Zmarzlik, and that he continued on his natural line, was that wise when you know that someone else is already on that line now?

Zmarzlik didn't move towards Doyle either, and had nowhere else to go, but Doyle had probably 70% of the track width available to him to avoid the collision. 

It's racing, and we all want to see close racing, so this type of incident is inevitable unfortunately. It was a racing incident and without prejudice, I think the referee got it right.

[CB252]

6 minutes ago, Pinny said:

Zmarzlik definitely at fault and the ref bottled it. Clear as day. 
 

Glad Holder slammed the door on him in the re run. 

He should have laid it down and played the game.  Or, you know, show some balls and race 

Doyle must have been to the Verstappen school of driving. He has someone alongside him that actually has a wheel ahead when they get to the turn, and he expects them to disappear into thin air.

[CB252]

1 minute ago, AFCB Wildcat said:

This type of incident has been discussed many times and as usual people see it different ways.

For a long time, the falling rider getting the decision was the default decision by referees, so this is what people expect, but it seems now that the tide is turning a bit. 

For me, Doyle left Zmarzlik a gap coming off bend 2 that he was inevitably going to take and he was passed. While I agree with the comments saying that Doyle didn't lean in on Zmarzlik, and that he continued on his natural line, was that wise when you know that someone else is already on that line now?

Zmarzlik didn't move towards Doyle either, and had nowhere else to go, but Doyle had probably 70% of the track width available to him to avoid the collision. 

It's racing, and we all want to see close racing, so this type of incident is inevitable unfortunately. It was a racing incident and without prejudice, I think the referee got it right.

Spot on

[bigcatdiary]

12 hours ago, 89buttons said:

I always preferred the points you score being the points you get, getting in a final on 8 and being awarded 20 if you win it is a joke 

It’s certainly my opinion as well, I saw no reason to change it and it was much easier to follow.

[Pinny]

20 minutes ago, FAST GATER said:

So Holder's robust action is to be admired but Bart 's is unacceptable !

Holder was ahead and closed the door which is fine , Zmarzlik was off line and went for a gap that wasnt there. Big difference. 

[Leicester Lion]

27 minutes ago, AFCB Wildcat said:

This type of incident has been discussed many times and as usual people see it different ways.

For a long time, the falling rider getting the decision was the default decision by referees, so this is what people expect, but it seems now that the tide is turning a bit. 

For me, Doyle left Zmarzlik a gap coming off bend 2 that he was inevitably going to take and he was passed. While I agree with the comments saying that Doyle didn't lean in on Zmarzlik, and that he continued on his natural line, was that wise when you know that someone else is already on that line now?

Zmarzlik didn't move towards Doyle either, and had nowhere else to go, but Doyle had probably 70% of the track width available to him to avoid the collision. 

It's racing, and we all want to see close racing, so this type of incident is inevitable unfortunately. It was a racing incident and without prejudice, I think the referee got it right.

I presume when you say passed you mean past. But that wasn't the case. The gap was there but Zmarzlik didn't complete the pass. They were side by side. Normally I'd say the rider who doesn't complete the pass is to blame if he brings the opponent down. But in this instance Doyle was culpable to some degree. Not an easy call and that's why we have referees to make those judgements.

[Fromafar]

44 minutes ago, AFCB Wildcat said:

This type of incident has been discussed many times and as usual people see it different ways.

For a long time, the falling rider getting the decision was the default decision by referees, so this is what people expect, but it seems now that the tide is turning a bit. 

For me, Doyle left Zmarzlik a gap coming off bend 2 that he was inevitably going to take and he was passed. While I agree with the comments saying that Doyle didn't lean in on Zmarzlik, and that he continued on his natural line, was that wise when you know that someone else is already on that line now?

Zmarzlik didn't move towards Doyle either, and had nowhere else to go, but Doyle had probably 70% of the track width available to him to avoid the collision. 

It's racing, and we all want to see close racing, so this type of incident is inevitable unfortunately. It was a racing incident and without prejudice, I think the referee got it right.

That’s how I saw it ,they were handlebar to handlebar3/4 way up the strait.Doyle decided not to change line.Him being on the outside had the option.

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Maybe we need VAR in speedway.

[The Cheese]

Unfortunate for Holder, never ideal to award a final but in cases like this it would be the right thing to do. No consolation for him now but I'm sure he'll win a GP soon enough. Thought Doyle was unlucky, can kind of see that the referee might have thought he made the most of it but there's no doubt if it had been the other way around then that would have been seen as enough contact to exclude. 

Hopefully Lindgren can continue his form and make the title race interesting. 

[AFCB Wildcat]

31 minutes ago, Leicester Lion said:

I presume when you say passed you mean past. But that wasn't the case. The gap was there but Zmarzlik didn't complete the pass. They were side by side. Normally I'd say the rider who doesn't complete the pass is to blame if he brings the opponent down. But in this instance Doyle was culpable to some degree. Not an easy call and that's why we have referees to make those judgements.

Please accept my sincere apologies for my grammatical error and any offence it caused you.

In hindsight, I can see that this hideous faux Pas completely invalidates the point I was making and would have made it very difficult to understand. 

Thanks for pointing it out 

[orion]

25 minutes ago, The Cheese said:

Unfortunate for Holder, never ideal to award a final but in cases like this it would be the right thing to do. No consolation for him now but I'm sure he'll win a GP soon enough. Thought Doyle was unlucky, can kind of see that the referee might have thought he made the most of it but there's no doubt if it had been the other way around then that would have been seen as enough contact to exclude. 

Hopefully Lindgren can continue his form and make the title race interesting. 

I think it was a 50 -50 call..the main point that you quite rightly point out is how unlucky Holder is.. Common sense tells us that the rule should be that the race should have been awarded in this case.