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All the scenes of the under pressure hospitals shown on the news do look distressing and installs a gut fear that it could be you or a loved one, and you cannot have anything but an emotional empathy with the patients and staff involved. As Fenway said the other day this feeling of emotion and fear, re-enforced by continual sensationalist media has easily trumped stats, evidence and graphs no matter how well researched and intentioned by the anti lockdown side. You are seen by many as an unfeeling bastard for not agreeing, daring to question or disputing the government's interpretation of the figures and lockdown policy. That your arguments are all based on cold stark statistics, figures, data charts and graphs, not people. But imagine if we were bombarded night after night on the news with, instead of hospitals bulging at the seams, queues of ambulances and stressed staff, footage of a consultant looking a patient in the eye and saying 'I'm sorry, you have advanced stage cancer, we've caught it too late, there's little we can do' then it cuts to a doctor holding an old ladies hand saying 'with all the delays and cancellations to your op I'm afraid that your treatable condition is now a permanent one' then it moves to someone opening a letter or email that tells them they no longer have a job. Then to a business owner packing his last belongings as he locks and leaves his recently collapsed business for the last time. Next to a despairing parent as they watch their child falling further behind at school because they haven't got and can't afford the equipment for online schooling. Then on to the single parent who has recently lost her job and is feeding her three kids with one tin of beans and nothing for herself. Finally we move to the police informing a distraught parent that their child has committed suicide. Sensationalist of course and won't happen and nor should it but these are scenes now playing out, some multiple times everyday and some will carry on happening for years to come, all due to lockdown. But what would the public say if this sort of scenario was on our screens, night after night after night? Lockdown advocates at some point have to face up to the realities that the policy they support are creating. This is as far as I see it the far bigger picture and a more damaging situation that will resonate for years, long after the pandemic is over. Alternative strategies from well respected figures have been tabled but are not even discussed. Just trying the same failed idea of locking down over and over again hoping for a different outcome is sheer bloody madness.

It seems to have become a matter of fact on here that if you don't think lockdowns and restrictions are te answer you don't believe covid is a real thing and do believe it is all a conspiracy so I thought I'd make my own position clear. It's unlikely anybody would agree with all my views and some will agree with none of them but that's fine, I'm no expert on the subject. Do I believe Covid is a real virus? Yes very much so, it is a horrible virus that kills people. However I also believe that it almost exclusively kills very easily identifiable sections of society and therefore solutions that apply to all aren't going to be the answer. I say almost exclusively because like any fatal disease there will be a number of cases that fall outside the normal. Do I believe that any government reaction should be based upon Professor Fergusons worst case scenario models? Not in a million years, I do understand that much of what we see in the press is not a fair representation of all that he says but government acted on his worst case model and they have been proven many times to be wildly pessimistic. Do I think the government are telling the truth? No I think they are telling a version of events using statistics carefully chosen to justify their actions rather than reacting to the real figures. There will always be some truth to their version but equally there will always be some truth to the version of those opposing their views. Usually the truth will be somewhere between just like always. Do I think lockdowns work? No, I think it is pretty clear that they are not controlling the virus, never have and never will. The time of year has far more effect than anything the government has done or will do. On the other hand when it comes to everything that isn't covid lockdowns and restrictions have been a disaster. Hundreds of thousands will die in years to come because of delayed diagnosis, even more will have their lives destroyed by unemployment, poverty and homelessness and an entire generation of kids will not understand freedom of choice or that they are responsible for their own actions. Have I been taken in by things posted on here and elsewhere that haven't been true? Yes without a doubt, I'd like to think that I have usually realised afterwards but there will undoubtedly be some that have slipped past me. I'm pretty sure that will apply to both sides of the argument but like EVERYBODY else I am more inclined to believe things that fit with the views I already hold. What do I think should be done going forward? I would make sure that everybody who is most vulnerable is identified and made aware of the fact. Then I would help those who chose to isolate and those who care for them to do so with every possible facility, including full furlough until returning to work is safe. Everybody else would be allowed to carry on as normal but I would encourage hand washing and social distancing. PCR testing would be used at the recommended cycle rate for all front line workers until the vaccination program is established and proven to work. And that would be it, trying to control a virus is far too Canute like for my way of thinking.

The ONS figures for England says the death total for those under 60 with no underlying health problems is 388, throughout the pandemic. 388. Now in a normal year that age group would contribute over 1100 road traffic fatalities. Alcohol deaths in Scotland alone are 1150 each year. It important to put numbers in context. It’s not possible to ensure “ safety” unless you choose not to live. Covid spares the healthy, pretty much and kills the old and frail. It leaves those under 20 untouched, unless severe underlying health issues which are life limiting in themselves. Influenza by comparison is a bigger problem for the younger demographic. It does kill, albeit small numbers. The govt promoted propaganda has lead to a safety cult and hysteria this year. If we follow it with their logic, alcohol and cigarettes must be banned and all vehicles quarantined. It is too dangerous to travel or cross any road. But that would be too stupid, wouldn’t it......which is why we are in this position. I think it was Stalin who commented that Western democracies can’t control their people by force, they do so by controlling what they think.....

It's alright guys it's not hot gossip ! It's that time of the year to say a really big thank you to both to Sue and R and R for the brilliant results service that Sue and her gang provide, and to R and R for his fantastic mine of information and knowledge of Polish and European speedway, and above all providing us with links so that we can enjoy quality speedway on the internet. You've both kept my life time involvement and interest in speedway alive Happy New Year to you both and stay safe Roll on April !

I will not be sorry to see the back of this year. Tonight I will raise a glass to my family members who are no longer with us, as will many thousands of others. Really hoping 2021 brings better news. Happy 2021 fellow forumers.

Well if I read Chris and Tsunami correctly, and lockdowns work only to be reversed by irresponsible behaviour once lifted, the answer must be perpetual lockdown. As for vaccines, if they provide immunity to an infective agent, preventing disease, they are fantastic. Neither the AZ or Pfizer “ vaccine” provides that, and neither company claim that it does. They say it reduces your risk of developing symptoms. In absolute terms, from the original Pfizer trial, the jab reduces your risk of symptoms from 0.88% to0.044%. Now side effects from the vaccine might be worse that that. So let’s give it to those at high risk, shielding and over 65, if they want it. The rest of us can stick to Lemsip. Unless and until there is more justification for mass vaccination, this ain’t no magic bullet.....even Bozos twins suggest as much.

I believe that is the reason for the current political decision making and inflexibility. Once the govt chose to pursue the path of lockdown and suspension of civil liberties it cannot stop. They will listen to SAGE and those egging on more restrictions, ignoring any dissent. I accept that sceptics like myself have lost that argument, we are in the minority, our opinion leaders are suppressed and the weight of public opinion is influenced not by logical thought and curiosity but by the emotion and fear. The govt egged on by SAGE and the MSM pictures last March panicked the public deliberately to change behaviour.....to save others and not to kill your granny...Those who questioned this cult were accused of not caring about killing others , being selfish and some how right wing and despotic. That is a difficult position from which to tackle the authorities. Further actions regarding masks, closing pubs and schools have been accepted by a terrorised public happy to forfeit Liberty for the mirage of safety. Pointing out the very limited effect of lockdown , the uselessness of masks and that this virus only affects to the very old and infirm is met by derision from those only able to accept the approved dictat coming from our political leaders. Surely they would not do this unless it was all necessary ? There is a way for the govt to get out of this , by rolling out vaccines, any vaccine , and altering the PCR cycles and tests. They need to ignore the scientists, drunk on power and influence and pay heed to the economic damage and lack of non COVID care to convince the public of a “ change of tack “ However too many have been damaged by this campaign of fear and will never recover, the govt cannot admit any missteps, but the current tightening of thumb screws risks civil disorder when the money tree runs dry. Quite how we got here shows that hysteria and fear can still trump logic and pragmatism.

We are now being told to act as if you have the virus. So, I went into Tesco this afternoon, and coughed uncontrollably in every aisle. Every little helps !

So the stories about the crisis in hospitals in London and the South East with record cases, lack of beds and staff difficulties are, in your mind, all rubbish. And all is fine everywhere and medical staff are laughing at all the rumours about them being overworked, getting time off it easy, and there is no possible need for opening Nightingale hospitals. All TV interviews are rigged, as are pictures taken of hospital car parks full of ambulances with patients inside, and emergency food being prepared in those car parks to feed those patients and the drivers. No wonder people like The Doctor get exasperated at what he reads on here, compared with his experiences. We live in a sad sad world when any effort to help the current difficulties fighting the virus is laughed at and obstructed by the fakers. People like those who congregated on New Yeas Eve in front of St Thomas Hospital in London, chanting "COVID is a hoax" with Doctors stand-in disbelief at their actions. We are currently being riddled with fake news and manipulation of figures from those who don't fall in line, who challenge and scoff at the folks who understand and show more compassion to the real problems we do have. I know The Doctor on here, and I have a Doctor Daughter GP, and I am well aware of what is happening currently, and I am appalled at the negativity toward our current situation, and the lack of belief in what the medics do and why and when. Even the saviour of the vaccine to stop all this nonsense, is the subject of lies and suspicion, so is there no limit to the stupidity shown by those breaking COVID rules and the BSF 'experts' on here. Let's hope this New Year gets back the social awareness and respect, and the medics manage to get control of the virus and decency returns to be the norm.

Hampshire Police force have proudly offered up the information that they have imposed 500 fines for breaching covid regulations. This is the same force that refuse to attend burglaries unless the burglar is still on site due to lack of manpower. The same force that if somebody reports finding a clearly dumped MX bike worth £5000 don't do anything at all about it because of lack of manpower - however give them an easy revenue source and there is manpower aplenty. Another public funded organisation who are completely out of step with the people who pay their wages.

Well we've tried lockdown twice and both times they failed. Third time lucky? Yes the virus is spread by contact with others, but lockdown still means that people come in contact with each other so people can still legitimately go out and catch it, then take it home and spread it to their household. The word you're looking for is quarantine, now that would work if it was strictly enforced but of course that is impossible for practical reasons. I agree with you in that you and many on here believe in it, the government does, many but certainly not all medics believe in it, the EU believe in it but where is the evidence anywhere in Europe to show that it has worked? There's been a mix of locking down early, late, harshly, lightly, two week breaks, longer ones yet the results all end roughly the same, every one in sh!t street. And yet again you all seem to have put on the blinkers meaning that all you see and concentrate on is 'covid, covid, covid' and are completely oblivious to the substantial harm this is causing elsewhere. I'm watching my sons education slowly disintegrate. Just before Christmas my partner joined the millions of unemployed directly due to the restrictions. These lockdowns are catastrophic to society yet you don't seem to see it.

I firmly believe that gradually the number of PCR test cycles will be reduced as the vaccine is rolled out so they can 'prove' the success of a vaccination program.

Something has gone seriously wrong in the last 50 years imo...

Nope, the Loch Ness monster has disappeared like flu .... .... to be replaced by the Loch Down monster.

Initially I thought Trump was just a bad loser. However, after his blatant attempt at fraud by urging Georgia's Secretary of State to "find" 11,780 votes, I don't think it can be dismissed that easily. The truly scary thing though is that even after all the lying, wild rants and erratic behaviour, some people still think Trump is suitable to run a country.

On the flipside, the government are dealing with the pandemic extremely poorly, the chickens have come home to roost from constant reductions in NHS capacity. We've had a fair few near miss pandemics in recent years, but we clearly haven't considered the possibility of one taking hold. You say they are keeping millions fed and watered, conversely, they have put millions out of work, and simply told them to do something else. You say we are the first to roll out the vaccine, but, on the other hand, they've already admitted they're not following instructions with regards to dosage and have no real idea how that will mess with the efficacy of it. Mess being the operative word here. I think a lot of people just want to try something different. Instead of repeating the same thing and expecting different results. Even if they tried something different, and it didn't work, well at least they had a shot at it. It's got to be better than the mass panic & hysteria that's set in. I'm sick of being stuck in the same cycle of work, sit at home, work, sit at home. A year has zipped by, a year we won't get back.

DC....unlike you to have been sleeping. Both vaccines claim only to reduce the likelihood of developing symptoms. Neither claim to make it less likely you pick it up , neither claim to make you immune and neither say it reduces the likelihood of passing it on. Even Pat Vallance conceded the latter when asked when masks can be thrown away. Don’t get me started on the claims of safety..... If you agree to being vaccinated, you are part of a very big phase 3 human trial. Now depending on your vulnerability that may be fine. I would suggest those under 60 could be more likely to get side effects , than benefit. Remember 85% plus don’t get any symptoms at all. For any woman of fertile age.....be very careful what you consent too. Corona spike protein is very like placental proteins and we have no idea what that might mean. 10 months in development cannot assure any drug of safety....Tsunami might disagree but this vaccine has more political benefit than medical , so far.....

Whitty : 'Flu doesn't go away'. So where's it gone this winter then? Rebranded as Covid-19, that's where.

However life has to be about more than just existence, fearing death and illness at every turn. The politicians shout about “staying safe” when quite simply that is impossible. The most dangerous thing we do , on a daily basis is travel, either inside a machine or as a pedestrian. We do that, because the upside justifies the action. Hiding away minimises any quality of life, to the detriment of mental well-being. There are many things that humans have no influence over....you can’t defeat a viral pandemic Boris, try stopping the rain instead.

Teaching unions asking the government to apply 'common sense' and close all schools immediately. That's a union that knows all the jobs will be there after returning to normality and whose member will presumably want paying their full salary while closed. Meanwhile in the real world most people are desperately trying to find ways to work in order to make sure their companies survive and they can pay the mortgage. Those are the people who pay the teachers wages and will have to pay child care as well at a time when child care facilities can name their own price.

What could possibly go wrong ...

A new full lockdown is inevitable. All politicians onboard, MSM chomping at the bit in anticipation, those who will continue on full pay supporting it. All based on a test that has been thoroughly discredited. If you think this will be all over by Easter you need to open your eyes and give your head a bloody good wobble.

The problem is the government create the fear by saying that the new strain is highly infectious and more likely to effect younger people, to further their agenda Then they start saying schools are safe, to make sure Children go back They then wonder why parents and teachers, who believed their propaganda, don't want children to go back

Doesn’t fit his agenda so he simply ignores it.

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